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Variants and Options

 
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Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 11:15:37 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I played my first game in a scenario someone esle had writted and it left me with a bad taste in my mouth after we figured out how unbalanced it was.

So I thought I would repost my variants table for ****s and giggles

Basically you pick a base scenario say scenario 2
Agree number of variant points 25 - 150 is normal depending on how different you want it to be.
Both sides pick from the list below the variants they want to pick and share with their opponent to have a discussion to make sure if there is anything unreasonable ie specific ship types etc
Someone applies to scenario
Start game and begin



< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 8/24/2021 6:26:13 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 11:16:11 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Part 2

Updated list below

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 8/24/2021 6:26:46 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 11:24:29 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		The one I have had feedback about from previous users in A1 is too powerfull for the allies and should only be 3 months acceleration if coming into 1942 ie each month costs double if its in 1942 - its a change I will probably make on v5

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 3
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 12:31:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		What if I look up a unit and see that it withdraws but that withdrawl is not in the game?

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 4
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 12:37:43 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I assumed games with withdrawal on but its a fair challenge should be able to cancel an LCU withdrawal

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Post #: 5
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 12:42:11 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		amended thanks rangerjoe

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Post #: 6
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 12:43:59 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		A few games used an earlier version of the above and a few Ironman Nasty Nasty (as was) used the above to give the human player some presents it wasnt widely used so apart from my own games I was never sure how successful it was but thought I would share it for a laugh more than anything else


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Post #: 7
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 1:03:06 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I haven't opened my game for awhile but I seem to recall that the USS Alden does not withdraw. Yet it did withdraw from the Pacific and operated in the Atlantic and the Caribbean. It is a Clemson class 4 piper that starts with the Black Hawk AD. It withdrew from Mare Island on 9 April 1943 to the Caribbean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Alden

Commander Ernest Evans, MOH, was on the Alden at the start of the war, but not in command. He later commanded a Fletcher class ship with the 7th Fleet.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 8
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 1:10:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Ah ok thats a DB error in actual scenario thats beyond the scope of variants !!

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 9
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 1:20:00 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I was just wondering where that should be mentioned. After all, while one DD may not make a difference there may be more ships withdrawn. Not just that, if all of the surviving four pipers left the theatre, then the ones that were sunk should as well. That again may not make much of a difference but it may help reduce the overwhelming horde of Allied escorts.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 11/3/2020 1:21:42 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 10
RE: Variants and Options - 11/3/2020 11:19:08 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Andymac, a couple of questions.

1. Could E2 be spread around to 2 or more locations?

2. L4 - are you referring to just the Emergency/Invasion Mobilization unit only? Not the invasion set of units.


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Post #: 11
RE: Variants and Options - 11/4/2020 12:23:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Nomad

1. Yes but with restriction it can only be 1 'new yard' - I haven't seen it so far only game where it was selected Allies put a size 30 repair yard increase to Sydney and Japanese put a size 30 in Truk I think to be fair given Japanese production it would be no more than 1 new yard but you could increase the size of others

i.e. put a size 10 yard in Truk and increase the size of Nagasaki yard by 20 fine

I would say not allowed to put 6 size 5 repair yards in different bases as Japan given ability to increase size of yards


2. Yes existing emergancy invasion TF's

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 12
RE: Variants and Options - 11/4/2020 1:44:20 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		This may help it was my last set of picks against a slightly earlier set of options on Scen 2 game - this was a 100 point gamemy choices below

The Firefly thing was a gift from my oppoenent becuase he laughing at my CW focussed choices so much so he said take a year no problem....

But it gives an example of how my choices worked


Add 25 PP's 5
Increase Sydney Yard by 30 points 5
Add Indian Invasion Reinforcement convoy (bad roll) 12/42 20
Cancel wthdrawal 1st NZ Army Tank Bde 2
Change 1st Army Tank Bde to temp restricted 2
Cancel wthdrawal 1st Aus Cav Bde 2
Add 500k Supply to Java and Sumatra 3


Change Hermes to Colossous Class 1
HMS Illustrious accelerate 1 Upgrade 1
HMS Formidable accelerate 1 upgrade 1
Cancel Withdrawal HMS Illustrious 2
Cancel Withdrawal HMS Formidable 2
Add HMS Audacious (Agreed with opponent from Ironman Scenario plus Sqns) to 1944 Reinforcements 4/44 (decent role) 2
Add HMS Ark Royal (Agreed with opponent from Ironman Scenario plus Sqns) to 1944 Reinforcements 11/44 (not so decent role) 2
HMS Scout, Tenedos, Thracian, Stronghold, HMAS Vampire, Voyager to Tribal Class 3
HMAS Adeilade and Ceres to Southampton Class 2
Add HMS Leviathan, Hercules and Magnificent (colossous class CVL's with airgroups to 1944) 3
Add 3 Minotaur Class CL's to RN/RCN and RAN in 1944 (from Ironman Classes with agreement of opponent) 3




Change Spit Vb (Australian Nationality to CW) 5
Add Australian size 30 Spit Vc Factory to Adeilade 5
Add Beaufort V Factory (size 15) to Melbourne 5
Seafire Iic accelerate 6 months to 4/43 6
Firefly I Accelerate 12 months to 11/43 6
Corsair II accelerate 6 months to 6/43 6
Delay end date P47D 3 months 2
Accelerate F4U by 2 months 4

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 13
RE: Variants and Options - 11/4/2020 4:26:21 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Thanks Andymac, sounds reasonable. As Allied I was thinking a small repair yard at Tahiti and increasing either/both Auckland or Sydney.

I noticed in your example that you kept some British CVs, but it does not appear that you increased your British TB production. That might be a bottleneck.

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Post #: 14
RE: Variants and Options - 11/4/2020 5:53:11 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		It was big time I had carriers and no planes - as i said my opponenet gave me a free 6 months on firefly's as he was laughing so hard

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 15
RE: Variants and Options - 11/4/2020 5:55:33 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

It was big time I had carriers and no planes - as i said my opponenet gave me a free 6 months on firefly's as he was laughing so hard




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RE: Variants and Options - 11/5/2020 1:22:57 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		I have a suggestion - add a conversion bind, including adding the needed classes. Nothing silly like turning Sub Chasers into BBs (although maybe converting them into Tacoma PFs with a suitable delay imposed, and a numbers limit, would be Ok).

What I had more in mind is that you could add some flexibility in terms of merchant hull usage with backwards and forwards conversions. As an example, you could do something with the EC-2 (Liberty) hulls -

Convert from, or back to EC-2 Liberty xAK (includes all upgrades)

Convert to, or from - the EC-2 USAT xAP rig ups (such as were used in SWPac). A liberty with say 2000 people space and 2000 cargo space (no wet cargo).

Convert to, or from the Z-ET1-S-C3 Tanker format (historically there were about 50 of these done on the slipways). 6000 wet load or thereabouts.

Convert to (not back from) the EC2 Crater AK (no backwards compatibility as it becomes a naval vessel).

Questionably, allow some conversions to EC-2 Xanthus AR ship configuration.

And now for the fun part:

The EC2 Liberty AMC - These get some of the older guns being landed by the navy, gun shields and splinter protection (13mm on the conning tower), some Light AAA and some ASW, and 2000 tons dry cargo space.

I have been testing these rigged with 4x1 5"/51, 4x1 5"/25 DP, a couple of quad 1.1" and some 50 cal - plus some DC racks, although I have never seen one actually drop a depth charge. It might be better to give them the old Y projectors. They usually don't survive a fight with one of Andy's Akagi Marus, but they do fight back and screen the convoy, and maybe cause enough damage to terminate the patrol. What they really need is capacity for a couple of F4F-3S float planes to fly CAP and chase away all those Linda's

All the above conversions would require a 10 shipyard and take a couple of months.

I tinkered with a MAC ship version - basically an AMC re-badged as a CVE (capacity 1 aircraft), but it doesn't really work like a MAC ship.





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Post #: 17
RE: Variants and Options - 8/22/2021 1:37:32 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Clicked on this thread due to the new AAR using these options. One thing I would like to suggest is the for the allies to get 1 to 3 air groups that come in as size 75 planes versus three 25 planes groups and japan could get a few of size 72 versus two 36 plane groups.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 18
RE: Variants and Options - 8/22/2021 2:01:07 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		That is a good idea Mike, and it should not cost many variant points since you are not getting any more aircraft to use, just 1 size 75 instead of 3 size 25.

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RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 1:06:15 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		The binds are too tough to implement

Re sqn size I think its good flavour and makes sense but it should cost more as it costs less in stacking points so allowing 1 or 2 is a good idea but it should cost a little more and have some limits on it

As soon as the guys start their game I will post my latest view amended to fix some of the issues I saw for discussion

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 20
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 1:21:08 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

The binds are too tough to implement

Re sqn size I think its good flavour and makes sense but it should cost more as it costs less in stacking points so allowing 1 or 2 is a good idea but it should cost a little more and have some limits on it

As soon as the guys start their game I will post my latest view amended to fix some of the issues I saw for discussion


Players could flick the scenario to me and I could plug them in; happy to help.

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RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 1:26:15 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Individual ships I agree with its tough to do for a whole class as not sure how I would allocate points to it as the cost of allowing a conversion for a small 2 ship class v liberty ship cannot be the same

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 22
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 2:47:33 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I think the guys have chosen now and have started so I will post the revised variants based on feedback received below and my own observations of the guys picks


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 23
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 2:52:09 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		1




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 24
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 2:52:56 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		2




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 8/23/2021 2:55:36 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 25
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 2:53:05 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Feedback recieved was adding in Ironman planes was a step too far and should be something agreed between players only I agree so deleted those options

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 8/25/2021 7:03:08 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 26
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 2:53:14 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		4

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 27
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 2:53:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		5




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Post #: 28
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 2:59:04 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		had to amend CVB 's too powerfull with full air complements




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 8/23/2021 10:22:02 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 29
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 2:59:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Last one




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