Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Hmmm...Where did everybody go???

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/4/2020 9:12:15 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
Since it was announced that beta players are wanted for a new WWII game a lot of the regulars here seem to have flown the coop. Where have they gone? Did they try to cross the road and were run over? Hopefully, maybe some.

Rest good, Joe, I won't reveal the secret even tho I did not sign an NDA many years ago. I hope this turns out spectacularly. I await anxiously for the new reveal - just don't set off fireworks and burn down lots of this country. I sure hate the word "reveal" in these days of revealing baby genders and what flavor edible undies some bimbo is wearing.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.
Post #: 1
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 1:07:17 AM   
rsallen64


Posts: 172
Joined: 6/15/2009
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
Hey, we're all still here. I am more of a lurker and don't sign on that often, but I check the forum every single day. Also, I think many people are busy with other things going on right now. You might have seen some things on the news lately.

_____________________________

Desert War 1940-1942 Beta Tester
Agressors: Ancient Rome Beta Tester

"The greatest and noblest pleasure which men can have in this world is to discover new truths; and the next is to shake off old prejudices." Frederick the Great

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 2
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 1:24:26 AM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
So DD, I am curious why a Jarhead would take an ID as a Navy DD. Just curious if you are willing to share

(in reply to rsallen64)
Post #: 3
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 1:58:38 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
Why would someone admit to being a DAT?

As far as a jarhead taking a Navy DD as a name, jarheads are Naval Infantry.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 4
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 4:43:20 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

So DD, I am curious why a Jarhead would take an ID as a Navy DD. Just curious if you are willing to share


It would be because it was the ship his father was on DD-696 the USS English

_____________________________


(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 5
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 6:42:57 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rsallen64

Also, I think many people are busy with other things going on right now.
You might have seen some things on the news lately.


I wouldn’t have thought the 2nd round of the Paris Masters was that interesting.

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to rsallen64)
Post #: 6
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 1:00:46 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

So DD, I am curious why a Jarhead would take an ID as a Navy DD. Just curious if you are willing to share


It would be because it was the ship his father was on DD-696 the USS English

Thanks Nomad, I did not know that.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 7
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 1:07:26 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
But having an English and England in the Navy at the same time - confusing. Also reminds me that Oz was not thrilled that the US put the USS Canberra into service and IIRC there was some agreement between the Allies not to have same named ships and it meant OZ could not have their own Canberra.

Now whether the older Canberra was actually torped by an American ship is a longer conversation.

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 8
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 3:32:24 PM   
Kriegsspieler

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 12/3/2006
Status: offline
So I can't resist asking -- what is the new WWII game that DD696 is alluding to? Are we talking about the new WitE, or something else? If it's hidden behind an NDA for its betas, ok, but I just thought I would ask?

It couldn't be a new version of THIS game could it? That would be so cool, but also SO improbable! Why do that when you can issue another dlc for something like Order of Battle or Panzer Corps? Sorry -- don't mean to toss around insults here. It's just that WitE comes from such a different universe of wargaming.

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 9
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 3:50:24 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline
I thought many of the good old bunch were driven away actually by inflammatory topics. Part of the good old bunch being the target of the inflammatory part that is . They choose the respectful way out, instead of mind-lessingly insulting back.

(in reply to Kriegsspieler)
Post #: 10
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 7:07:00 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

But having an English and England in the Navy at the same time - confusing. Also reminds me that Oz was not thrilled that the US put the USS Canberra into service and IIRC there was some agreement between the Allies not to have same named ships and it meant OZ could not have their own Canberra.

Now whether the older Canberra was actually torped by an American ship is a longer conversation.

No conversation - the torpedoes worked so they must have been Japanese!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 11
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/5/2020 8:33:42 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
fair point BB. but sometimes USN torps did actually explode......generally when they came from S boats or 4 pipers.....

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 12
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/6/2020 3:22:44 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kriegsspieler

So I can't resist asking -- what is the new WWII game that DD696 is alluding to? Are we talking about the new WitE, or something else? If it's hidden behind an NDA for its betas, ok, but I just thought I would ask?

It couldn't be a new version of THIS game could it? That would be so cool, but also SO improbable! Why do that when you can issue another dlc for something like Order of Battle or Panzer Corps? Sorry -- don't mean to toss around insults here. It's just that WitE comes from such a different universe of wargaming.

Kreig,

There was a posting in the forum here back a ways looking for beta testers ... from Joe Wilkerson ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Kriegsspieler)
Post #: 13
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/6/2020 3:41:05 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
Actually it was by wdolson here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4876155

_____________________________


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 14
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/6/2020 1:19:47 PM   
Kriegsspieler

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 12/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kriegsspieler

So I can't resist asking -- what is the new WWII game that DD696 is alluding to? Are we talking about the new WitE, or something else? If it's hidden behind an NDA for its betas, ok, but I just thought I would ask?

It couldn't be a new version of THIS game could it? That would be so cool, but also SO improbable! Why do that when you can issue another dlc for something like Order of Battle or Panzer Corps? Sorry -- don't mean to toss around insults here. It's just that WitE comes from such a different universe of wargaming.

Kreig,

There was a posting in the forum here back a ways looking for beta testers ... from Joe Wilkerson ...

Thanks, Pax. Good to see that you're alive and well.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 15
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/6/2020 1:28:49 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

fair point BB. but sometimes USN torps did actually explode......generally when they came from S boats or 4 pipers.....


No, the 4 pipers fired the Mark 15s which also had their own problems. Although four of them did a number on the Balikpapen invasion force and got away. Most of those torpedoes also ran too deep.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 16
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/6/2020 3:55:14 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
For some reason in my head the 4 pipers early war were using MK 8, but something older than 15s. But they did do a good job at Balikpapen. Of course the IJN helped them out by torping some of their own ships.

The other interesting thing is that the USN kept using the 15 well into the 50s, maybe even the 60s. I stopped the the sub museum in Groton Conn, earlier this year and they had a 15 on display. They also have the USS Nautilus, so if you are in the neighborhood not a bad way to spend a couple of hours. If it is a clear day you might even spy some of the USN SSNs at their base upriver. Then you can spend a couple of more at Mystic seaport, particularly if you have any interest in whaling history. And if you happen to be heading towards Boston or Cape Cod you hit Fall river. The USS Massachusetts is there, a couple of PT boats, a WW2 DD (I want to say the Kennedy), and a former Warsaw Pact missile attack ship. And of course, if you are headed to Boston there is the USS Constitution to explore.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 17
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/6/2020 4:04:33 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
Basically the Mk-15 and Mk-14 were very similar, designed at the same time. They both had the same exploder and both ran deeper that set.
As the Mk-14 deficiencies were corrected, the Mk-15 ones were too. The Mk-15 was not a bad torpedo when it problems were fixed.

_____________________________


(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 18
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/6/2020 6:13:29 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
The Mark 8 was the first torpedo used by the PT Boats but they had explosive charges to send them on their way. Nothing to keep a secret like a big flash on a dark night. Later, they used a Mark 13 torpedo rolled over the side.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 19
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 7:57:26 AM   
Buckrock

 

Posts: 578
Joined: 3/16/2012
From: Not all there
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Since it was announced that beta players are wanted for a new WWII game a lot of the regulars here seem to have flown the coop. Where have they gone? Did they try to cross the road and were run over? Hopefully, maybe some.

Rest good, Joe, I won't reveal the secret even tho I did not sign an NDA many years ago. I hope this turns out spectacularly. I await anxiously for the new reveal - just don't set off fireworks and burn down lots of this country. I sure hate the word "reveal" in these days of revealing baby genders and what flavor edible undies some bimbo is wearing.


We'll just have to wait for Xmas. Not sure what year though.


_____________________________

This was the only sig line I could think of.

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 20
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 7:59:55 AM   
Buckrock

 

Posts: 578
Joined: 3/16/2012
From: Not all there
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

fair point BB. but sometimes USN torps did actually explode......generally when they came from S boats or 4 pipers.....


No, the 4 pipers fired the Mark 15s which also had their own problems. Although four of them did a number on the Balikpapen invasion force and got away. Most of those torpedoes also ran too deep.

The Clemson and Wickes classes started the war equipped with Mark 8 torpedoes and those involved in the early '42 actions in the DEI (Balikpapan, Badoeing Strait, Java Sea) only used that torpedo type. Regardless of what the game has them carrying, I can't recall off hand seeing historical accounts showing these two destroyer classes ever being equipped with the longer Mark 15 torpedo during the war.

_____________________________

This was the only sig line I could think of.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 21
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 1:14:29 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Basically the Mk-15 and Mk-14 were very similar, designed at the same time. They both had the same exploder and both ran deeper that set.
As the Mk-14 deficiencies were corrected, the Mk-15 ones were too. The Mk-15 was not a bad torpedo when it problems were fixed.


I read this really interesting article about the whole dud torpedo thing - basically the argument was they weren't duds, they were just misused. it goes like this:

- The new magnetic exploders were set so that the torpedo went off when it was a certain distance from the ship.

- The torpedos were designed so they ran at a depth that would take them under the ship and if all worked, they would go off under the keel, so the shockwave could hit the ship below the torpedo protection bulkheads and break its back.

- Unfortunately no-body explained this to the sub skippers, who not only continued to take hull shots, but interfered with the depth settings so the torpedo ran shallow; this of course meant that if it did explode at the designed distance from the ship, the shockwave dissipated against the horizontal torpedo protection/armour belt of the target. Think of a circle and its radius, with the target in the middle.

- There were also explosive duds which is a different problem.

So basically, the author reckoned that had the sub skippers been educated properly, they would have understood that having their torpedos run deep, and explode under the keel of the target is actually a good idea .... (which is pretty much how torpedoes are set up to operate nowadays).





_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 22
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 1:50:29 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Basically the Mk-15 and Mk-14 were very similar, designed at the same time. They both had the same exploder and both ran deeper that set.
As the Mk-14 deficiencies were corrected, the Mk-15 ones were too. The Mk-15 was not a bad torpedo when it problems were fixed.


I read this really interesting article about the whole dud torpedo thing - basically the argument was they weren't duds, they were just misused. it goes like this:

- The new magnetic exploders were set so that the torpedo went off when it was a certain distance from the ship.

- The torpedos were designed so they ran at a depth that would take them under the ship and if all worked, they would go off under the keel, so the shockwave could hit the ship below the torpedo protection bulkheads and break its back.

- Unfortunately no-body explained this to the sub skippers, who not only continued to take hull shots, but interfered with the depth settings so the torpedo ran shallow; this of course meant that if it did explode at the designed distance from the ship, the shockwave dissipated against the horizontal torpedo protection/armour belt of the target. Think of a circle and its radius, with the target in the middle.

- There were also explosive duds which is a different problem.

So basically, the author reckoned that had the sub skippers been educated properly, they would have understood that having their torpedos run deep, and explode under the keel of the target is actually a good idea .... (which is pretty much how torpedoes are set up to operate nowadays).


That theory sounds like the BuShips argument against the sub skippers for a year and a half. But the sub crews were not stupid, and they testified they tried every combination of depth settings and exploder type (I gather the magnetic exploder could be turned off in favour of the contact exploder for shallow water shots). Testing that was eventually done showed the depth setting problem - they set the depth wanted and fired at a sheet of some kind which showed the actual depth of impact.

Tests also showed that the contact exploder bent when impact was close to 90º to the hull. It was made of aluminum or some light alloy which, when replaced with good strong steel, worked. Not sure if the US was using the copper shaped charge cone in the warhead at that time but that would necessarily mean the firing pin was quite long to reach to the bottom of the cone.



_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 23
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 2:40:24 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
Drachinifel has a video, The Mark 14 Torpedo - Failure is Like Onions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5Ru7Zu_1I

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 24
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 3:13:36 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
the US torp failure was not good. I forget which boat it was, but crippled an IJN tanker but could not put her down despite I think using another 20 torps. Then we finally got the net firing tests which proved the mk 15 was running something like 15 feet under what was selected.

And then that doofus politician saying that US subs were running lower than IJN depth charges.....fairly criminal.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 25
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 3:32:38 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

the US torp failure was not good. I forget which boat it was, but crippled an IJN tanker but could not put her down despite I think using another 20 torps. Then we finally got the net firing tests which proved the mk 15 was running something like 15 feet under what was selected.

And then that doofus politician saying that US subs were running lower than IJN depth charges.....fairly criminal.


It was a Tonan Maru, a whaler, that was crippled, towed to Truk, and used as a large oil tank.

The politician was a Congressman from Illinois, Chicago I do believe

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 26
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 3:42:34 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Basically the Mk-15 and Mk-14 were very similar, designed at the same time. They both had the same exploder and both ran deeper that set.
As the Mk-14 deficiencies were corrected, the Mk-15 ones were too. The Mk-15 was not a bad torpedo when it problems were fixed.


I read this really interesting article about the whole dud torpedo thing - basically the argument was they weren't duds, they were just misused. it goes like this:

- The new magnetic exploders were set so that the torpedo went off when it was a certain distance from the ship.

- The torpedos were designed so they ran at a depth that would take them under the ship and if all worked, they would go off under the keel, so the shockwave could hit the ship below the torpedo protection bulkheads and break its back.

- Unfortunately no-body explained this to the sub skippers, who not only continued to take hull shots, but interfered with the depth settings so the torpedo ran shallow; this of course meant that if it did explode at the designed distance from the ship, the shockwave dissipated against the horizontal torpedo protection/armour belt of the target. Think of a circle and its radius, with the target in the middle.

- There were also explosive duds which is a different problem.

So basically, the author reckoned that had the sub skippers been educated properly, they would have understood that having their torpedos run deep, and explode under the keel of the target is actually a good idea .... (which is pretty much how torpedoes are set up to operate nowadays).


That theory sounds like the BuShips argument against the sub skippers for a year and a half. But the sub crews were not stupid, and they testified they tried every combination of depth settings and exploder type (I gather the magnetic exploder could be turned off in favour of the contact exploder for shallow water shots). Testing that was eventually done showed the depth setting problem - they set the depth wanted and fired at a sheet of some kind which showed the actual depth of impact.

Tests also showed that the contact exploder bent when impact was close to 90º to the hull. It was made of aluminum or some light alloy which, when replaced with good strong steel, worked. Not sure if the US was using the copper shaped charge cone in the warhead at that time but that would necessarily mean the firing pin was quite long to reach to the bottom of the cone.


From what I remember reading about this, the Earth's magnetic field in the Western Pacific causes the ships' magnetic fields to run more horizontally than vertically which sets off the magnetic detonator too soon, something that BuOrd dd not realize. They fired the torpedoes trough a series of nets to see how the torpedoes moved like a porpoise, from the actual depth setting to too deep by about 10 to 11 feet, on average. Part of the problem as that during the testing, the torpedoes id not have the same weight as the warhead so it was lighter.

The first, improved firing pin was made from a wrecked Japanese aircraft propeller. The aluminum was light enough to travel back fast enough to detonate the exploder before the front of the torpedo deformed, the slower heavier steel firing pin would be trapped before hitting the exploder if the impact angle was close to 90 degrees, in other words, normally the best angle.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 27
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 6:32:08 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
Interesting - everything I have ever read said hitting the target off 90 worked better. Not intuitive but the data seems to back it up.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 28
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 7:28:59 PM   
CV10

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 5/21/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
The politician was a Congressman from Illinois, Chicago I do believe


Andrew May of the Kentucky 7th District. He was the Chairman of the House Military Affairs Committee.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 29
RE: Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? - 11/7/2020 11:17:54 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Interesting - everything I have ever read said hitting the target off 90 worked better. Not intuitive but the data seems to back it up.


That normally would be the best shot but not with the wrong firing pins!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Hmmm...Where did everybody go??? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.827