RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta13 AIR FORCES (last update 17 nov!)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Shadow Empire MATRIX VERSION Open Beta >> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta13 AIR FORCES (last update 17 nov!)

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RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta13 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/17/2020 9:56:45 PM

Daza99

Posts: 285
Joined: 8/1/2017
Status: offline

How do we currently transport units via air providing there is cargo space in an air-unit?

I know how to set up an air-bridge but i do not know how to transport infantry for example, get them aboard etc. I presume you need the right cargo space to do so, but how do we know how much space is needed and how to actually add units to a air unit is a mystery currently. I was hoping it would be similar to how one adds additional units to a ground Attack by moving units from one panel into another.

< Message edited by Daza99 -- 11/17/2020 9:58:26 PM >

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 541

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta13 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/17/2020 10:30:51 PM

Soar_Slitherine

Posts: 426
Joined: 6/7/2020
Status: offline

If I've read the manual addition right, once you have an active airbridge (they take a turn to set up), you move troops across it with the Strategic Movement order mode. The air units allocated to the air bridge generate air transport points based on their cargo capacity, and logistics across the air bridge expends them just like it would truck or train points. I have not actually tried one yet, though.

(in reply to Daza99)

Post #: 542

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/18/2020 5:02:50 AM

Nemesison

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2020
Status: offline

quote:

You need both combat armor and Polymer armor in order to unlock heavy combat armor.

Oh, Thanks

I though prerequisite for a particular tech where to be found in the previous tech tier

(in reply to Clux)

Post #: 543

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta12 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/18/2020 11:54:58 PM

Soar_Slitherine

Posts: 426
Joined: 6/7/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Akrakorn

What are the differences between a high altitude plane vs a low altitude one? It seems there are more units that are good against low altitude planes than high altitude ones, so why shouldn't I always choose to make level bombers as opposed to tactical bombers?

According to the design log, high altitude aircraft suffer -33% to soft attack and -66% to hard attack, presumably due to the reduced accuracy of bombing from a further distance.

However, as it stands, I don't see any reason to give recon aircraft without ground attack capability the Recon role instead of one of the high-altitude roles, since the recon value appears to be the same either way.

(in reply to Akrakorn)

Post #: 544

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta12 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/19/2020 5:17:25 AM

Nemesison

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2020
Status: offline

If you read the manual addendum for air forces it's specified that AA units have different attack modifiers to different altitudes.

For example an 88mm AA gun it's good at high altitude, vice-versa a 20mm AA it's much more effective vs low flying planes and cannot do much to high altitude ones, and they have different cover ranges.

I would also wager that recon capabilities are lower at high altitude, but i found no reference to that in the addendum

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Nemesison -- 11/19/2020 5:26:29 AM >

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)

Post #: 545

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta12 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/19/2020 6:49:49 AM

Destragon

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

According to the design log, high altitude aircraft suffer -33% to soft attack and -66% to hard attack, presumably due to the reduced accuracy of bombing from a further distance.

This should really be mentioned somewhere when assigning a role to a new aircraft. I was wondering about the difference between the bomber types, too.

quote:

However, as it stands, I don't see any reason to give recon aircraft without ground attack capability the Recon role instead of one of the high-altitude roles, since the recon value appears to be the same either way.

That should definitely get reduced recon value if it doesn't already.

There's no difference between the level bomber and transporter roles, right? They are just an optional organisation method for the player?

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)

Post #: 546

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta12 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/19/2020 9:16:55 AM

Destragon

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

Here's a couple more "nice to have" quality of life suggestions.

- The "replacement troops" screen needs some love. The screen can be quite a lot to scroll through, especially now that the aircraft update added a bunch new unit types. I think two relative small changes could go a long way here:
Make unit types that are missing replacements be displayed at the top of the list. So that you don't have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the screen to make sure you're not missing troops in some category.
Make the "Repl. Troops" button in the right side interface be displayed in a different colour when you're missing troops. For example, in yellow. So that you instantly know if you are missing or not missing any troops without even having to click the button to check.

- The "raise formation" screen currently only lists your air unit types like "recon", "fighter", etc, if you selected a hex that has a good enough air base to house them. So, for example, it won't display fighters if you selected a level 1 airbase, but all your figthers require level 2 airbases. I think this list should display all options, and just tell you that the unit can't be raised on the hex, because of inadequate airbase level, similar to how it tells you something can't be raised because you're missing PP. I think it would be a lot clearer that way. I was confused for a bit just now and thought my fighter models disappeared or something, because they weren't listed (, but it was just because of the airbase level).

- Minor, but the "raise formation" screen could maybe get a separate button for raising air units, instead of having them inside the "independent" list, so that they are easier to find. (The same could be done with navy units in the future.)

- This is also very minor, but in the combat screen, the "switch" button that lets you swap from regular attack to ranged attack, etc, should maybe be replaced with 4 separate buttons that let you swap directly to the mode that you want.

Edit:
Two little things that might be bugs, but aren't a big deal:
- I had my military research council research helicopter engines when I founded the airplane council. Now both of them are researching helicopter engines simultaneously.
- The percentage number on the "raise formation" screen seems to ignore ammo costs. The screen says I have 98% of the resources to build tactical bombers, but when I click on it, it says I actually only have 13%, because they need huge amounts of ammo. Screenshot: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504754524079259678/779007756341477416/unknown.png

< Message edited by Destragon -- 11/19/2020 2:40:33 PM >

(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 547

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/19/2020 7:48:25 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

And beta14, some air fixes, but mostly I finished the work on the improved Alien Fauna.

Big thanks once again for all the testing efforts.

Next path will focus on air fixes and finetunings.

Best wishes,
Vic

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(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 548

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/19/2020 8:17:16 PM

Destragon

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
-New Alien Fauna reproduction implemented *

What exactly does this mean? Can they randomly start spawning inside your territory or something?

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 549

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/19/2020 9:43:44 PM

bvoid

Posts: 108
Joined: 5/16/2013
Status: offline

b13 - (t3 start) can't discover aircraft model, even tho have propellor and turboprop researched

fixed in b14?

(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 550

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 12:43:24 AM

Bulldog61

Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/23/2000
From: Aurora,CO
Status: offline

I'm getting a CTD when trying to research Ultra light A/c
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at WindowsApplication1.EventRelatedClass.Helper_SetStringsForModelChoice(SimpleList CCL, SimpleList CCL2) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\Game\Calculations\SE1_specific\EventRelatedClass_SE1_StoryScripts.vb:line 12362
at WindowsApplication1.EventRelatedClass.ExecHardcodedDecision_SetModelObjective(Int32 storyId) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\Game\Calculations\SE1_specific\EventRelatedClass_SE1_StoryScripts.vb:line 12746
at WindowsApplication1.EventRelatedClass.execHardcodedDecision(Int32 dat1, Int32 dat2, Int32 dat3, Int32 dat4, String datastring) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\Game\Calculations\SE1_specific\EventRelatedClass_SE1_StoryScripts.vb:line 1304
at WindowsApplication1.EventRelatedClass.DoExec(Int32 enr, Int32 t1, String val1, String val2, String val3, String val4, String datastring) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\Game\Calculations\EventRelatedClass.vb:line 2791
at WindowsApplication1.EventRelatedClass.ExecuteExec(Int32 enr, Int32 linenr) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\Game\Calculations\EventRelatedClass.vb:line 2396
at WindowsApplication1.EventRelatedClass.DoCheckSpecificEvent(Int32 enr, Int32 tv0, Int32 tv1, Int32 tv2, Int32 tv3, Int32 tv9, Int32 tv7, Int32 tv8, Int32 tv10, Boolean skipSettingTempVars) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\Game\Calculations\EventRelatedClass.vb:line 532
at WindowsApplication1.TabManagementWindowClass2.HandleMouseClick(Int32 x, Int32 y, Int32 b) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\GUI\Windows\NewWindows\Tabs\TabManagementWindow2.vb:line 615
at WindowsApplication1.PlayScreenClass2.HandleMouseClick(Int32 x, Int32 y, Int32 b) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\GUI\Screens\NewScreens\PlayScreenClass2.vb:line 430
at WindowsApplication1.Form1.Form1_Mousedown(Object sender, MouseEventArgs e) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\Form1.vb:line 1417
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnMouseDown(MouseEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseDown(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
at WindowsApplication1.ImmoveableForm.WndProc(Message& m) in G:\VR\VRDevelopment\WindowsApplication1\ImmoveableForm.vb:line 67
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4250.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework64/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
WindowsApplication1
Assembly Version: 1.0.7628.38958
Win32 Version: 1.0.7628.38958
CodeBase: file:///C:/Matrix%20Games/Shadow%20Empire/ShadowEmpire.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 10.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 14.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/v4.0_10.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4200.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4270.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4270.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4190.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_B
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------
irrKlang.NET4
Assembly Version: 1.0.6617.18847
Win32 Version:
CodeBase: file:///C:/Matrix%20Games/Shadow%20Empire/irrKlang.NET4.DLL
----------------------------------------
ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib
Assembly Version: 0.84.0.0
Win32 Version: 0.84.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Matrix%20Games/Shadow%20Empire/ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib.DLL
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

_____________________________

You can run but you'll die tired!

(in reply to bvoid)

Post #: 551

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 3:11:48 AM

zastaver

Posts: 4
Joined: 11/16/2020
Status: offline

So i think i found a issue here, i cant via calling the airfoce councl, change them off of a continius research topic so i have sorta stalled.

(in reply to Bulldog61)

Post #: 552

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 6:42:20 AM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
-New Alien Fauna reproduction implemented *

What exactly does this mean? Can they randomly start spawning inside your territory or something?

It means their numbers can increase and once an Alien Fauna Unit reaches a certain size it can split in two.

best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

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(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 553

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 6:44:38 AM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bulldog61

I'm getting a CTD when trying to research Ultra light A/c
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

Hi Bulldog,

please post in the tech forums if possible. But no matter :) do you have an autosave from which this is repeatable? if so please send it to vic@vrdesigns.net

best,
Vic

_____________________________

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(in reply to Bulldog61)

Post #: 554

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 10:28:59 AM

Destragon

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

Hey Vic, some more questions if you don't mind:
Which techs do you need to unlock rocket weaponry and MG cupolas for your air units? I think you should add that to the tech descriptions on the tech tree, if you haven't already.
Can you confirm if high altitude aircraft get a recon malus, like Soar asked above?

< Message edited by Destragon -- 11/20/2020 10:30:01 AM >

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 555

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 2:26:31 PM

Bulldog61

Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/23/2000
From: Aurora,CO
Status: offline

I have a save. I'm trying to upload and it is telling me it is not allowed

_____________________________

You can run but you'll die tired!

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 556

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 4:18:02 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Hey Vic, some more questions if you don't mind:
Which techs do you need to unlock rocket weaponry and MG cupolas for your air units? I think you should add that to the tech descriptions on the tech tree, if you haven't already.
Can you confirm if high altitude aircraft get a recon malus, like Soar asked above?

As of beta15 the high alt. get a malus. was a good idea.

Rocket weaponry needs the rocketry tech. MG cupolas need Heavy or Very Heavy Aircraft Model Type.

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(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 557

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 4:24:07 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bulldog61

I have a save. I'm trying to upload and it is telling me it is not allowed

see my post above, please email it :)

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(in reply to Bulldog61)

Post #: 558

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 5:03:50 PM

Destragon

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

As of beta15 the high alt. get a malus. was a good idea.

Rocket weaponry needs the rocketry tech. MG cupolas need Heavy or Very Heavy Aircraft Model Type.

Thanks, Vic. I had assumed the rockets would need the RPG or Guided RPG techs. Would that be a more fitting place for them? I dunno.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 559

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 5:20:21 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

Hold on.. working on beta15b. there is a nasty crash with beta15.

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(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 560

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 5:55:22 PM

Destragon

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

Hey Vic, Bvoid above mentioned that he couldn't discover airplanes despite having engines researched in b13 and I just heard from someone else who showed me a screenshot where he has researched propeller engines, but ultra light airplanes are not discoverable. Unless I'm missing something that's required for the discovery of airplane models, it sounds like there's something bugged here.

Now that I think about it, is it possible that ultra light airplanes require you to have ALL the engine techs researched instead of just one of them?

< Message edited by Destragon -- 11/20/2020 5:57:38 PM >

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 561

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 6:03:05 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

Posted beta15b. Should be ok now.

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(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 562

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 6:06:53 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Hey Vic, Bvoid above mentioned that he couldn't discover airplanes despite having engines researched in b13 and I just heard from someone else who showed me a screenshot where he has researched propeller engines, but ultra light airplanes are not discoverable. Unless I'm missing something that's required for the discovery of airplane models, it sounds like there's something bugged here.

Now that I think about it, is it possible that ultra light airplanes require you to have ALL the engine techs researched instead of just one of them?

Yes i broke this in recent beta patch trying to allow you to discover it with other techs as well.

Will fix ASAP. probably tomorrow though.

Workaround start on tech level 4.

< Message edited by Vic -- 11/20/2020 6:07:09 PM >

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(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 563

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 6:10:40 PM

Destragon

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Yes i broke this in recent beta patch trying to allow you to discover it with other techs as well.

Haha, yeah, that's what I figured.
Thanks for the update though.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 564

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 6:22:31 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

@Destragon

Fixed it immediately.
Uploaded beta15b-2

Sorry for the hassle.

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(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 565

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/20/2020 7:11:28 PM

Destragon

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

Lol, thanks, Vic. Don't forget to rest for the weekend.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 566

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/21/2020 3:22:42 PM

DasTactic

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

I think this has been mentioned somewhere else but it would be great to somehow have the ability to change the individual components when designing aircraft rather than needing to start the design process again. Getting the best design is a fairly long process of trial and error at the moment.

Another element I think the game needs is a summary in the Reports of the battles fought - especially in the AI turns but would be great to also be able to review what happened during your turn as well.

As far as balance is concerned I'm wondering if the airforces are a bit OP at the moment. I haven't done extensive testing but it seems the MGs are killing ground targets as effectively as precision bombs.

(in reply to Destragon)

Post #: 567

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/21/2020 5:01:23 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

Hi Das,

Nice to see you checking in. Working on helping with that design process and I agree on the MGs being a bit to effective against ground targets.

More detailed battled reports will have to wait. History does provide the results though.

Best wishes,
Vic

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(in reply to DasTactic)

Post #: 568

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/21/2020 7:02:32 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

Posted beta-16!
Mostly finetuning to the model calculations, but also some other improvements.

best,
Vic

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(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 569

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta14 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/21/2020 8:21:42 PM

Jorgas

Posts: 39
Joined: 1/30/2013
Status: offline

All my saved games crash on beta 16. :(

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 570

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