German night fighters R&D, speed or range?

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German night fighters R&D, speed or range?

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German night fighters R&D, speed or range? - 11/7/2020 9:22:11 AM

Halsey74

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Joined: 6/7/2015
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A question about the night fighters of the luftwaffe.
At the beginning of the campaign it is a priority to accelerate the arrival of fighters equipped with the HS2 radar.
There are two options, the Me-110 G4/R7 or the He-219.
The Heinkel arrives in December 1943 and the 110-G4/R7 in January 1944. I can't afford to speed up the development of both.

Which of the two do you consider more effective against British bombers?

The He219 is faster and more maneuverable, but the Me110 has a greater range, and this in night fighting seems a very relevant factor. I have not advanced much in the campaigns, but of the initial night fighters the J88C6 is the one that has given me the best results because of its ability to stay much longer on patrol.

Post #: 1

RE: German night fighters R&D, speed or range? - 11/7/2020 6:57:00 PM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

You have listed the attributes of both so why not have both?
The main factors on introducing new aircraft are limits on engine production. The He219 uses DB 603, so change the Me410 assembly and parts to 219. Currently I have 9 lines producing at 42 turns in.
The 110 uses the DB605 which has the largest usage so get some back by cancelling Me210, 109Ga2 and 109Ga6.
Once again 9 lines producing.
I like the Do217N but only keep it around long enough to get some reserves before changing it to a type I really want. Bin the Do217J to free up production.
If you are having issues in not having capacity to develop you might have to concentrate on producing fewer front line types to develop better types later on.

I like the Heinkel for its all round ability. Its fault is the lack of range. The 110 I just love, my favourite plane of the war. Its faults are more general in agility, durability and speed but it does the job so well without shining. Generally the He219 converts more contacts into attacks then the 110 but the 110 is up there longer to make more contacts. Yes, I'm on the fence which is why I produce both. Get the Ju88G for a real killer.

One way I find to decide which type I want is to imagine you only have 1 stabs flight. What type would you give them? That's your choice.

(in reply to Halsey74)

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RE: German night fighters R&D, speed or range? - 11/19/2020 11:57:01 PM

Stefan123

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/9/2019
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I disagree with the premise of the question.

You have with the JU88C6 already a type in production with is almost perfect, fantastic range, and 2 Radar Detectors.
I Prod 6 per day and reequip the bulk of my NF to it. With no other type i can make patrols in the flightpath, follow the Stream, generate Intercepts, follow them back to GB...
All other types i use to saturate the target area (4str)15-25k Patrols above emplacmentns, (Rail)flak for dmg and spotlights, to make intercepts mor likely (110G4,Do217n,Wilde Sau)
Ju88 is always best NF kill wise in my GC43, a solid performer in 43. Later (no res) G4R7 foe N2 Radar/common engine /parts, finaly Ju88G.

Resarch a 2E plane, NF even more is a no go IMHO,
Example He219:
Natural nov43, to have noticeable res progress you need 10, so 20 engines per day.
For a NF with ****ty range and radar dedectors, i can see it for stab units as Higlighters, but you have already more than you need (wilde sau types)

Engine Question is key as its the botteleneck, i stopp DB603A prod, only obsolete types use it (Do 335 would be nice as FW190F/G upgrade, but its too late an use 2 engines)
I retool the big 603plants to AS Engies, the are ready when the 109G5/AS reserarch (Day1/10 per day)is done in Nov 43 and i can produce large numbers instantly.
110G2R3 is always top on leaderbord and outperforms 410A+ceiling sucks, no need either.

I find the he219 sexy and want to like it, nice 30mm cannons,schr�ge musik but for streamlined prod, no.

(in reply to mark dolby)

Post #: 3

RE: German night fighters R&D, speed or range? - 11/21/2020 10:21:47 PM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

It's good for debate to have so many variables open to the LW players.

The C6 is nice for the time but the radar suite is hopelessly compromised by the British. The endurance is slightly exceeded by the 110G4R7 with also better speed and equal toughness plus the better radar as standard and not having to wait for AG Telefunken to supply some upgrades(slowly!).
New tweaks to the Allied AI have stopped the daylight heavies from coming in at 34-36K, now at a more realistic 20-27K meaning the 410 is once again back in the picture. It may not have those 30mm guns but it does have a lot longer in the air. If you don't want those 410 then there are the engines already for the 219, and the 219 has better radar and the radar detector of the 88. I tend not to use the 109/190 wilde sau at night but as 'late response day fighters'. As experienced LW players we all get a feeling for which raids are the 'heavies' so I get give them orders to take off long before the plots get far beyond the German border. Let's face it we win in the day or not at all.

Still, I like the idea of streamlining the production schedules but would go with more than 6. I'm currently at 13/10/43 and have just cancelled C6 production. 110G4 cancelled at start of October along with the 217N, 217J cancelled from the start. I have @300 spare NJG twin engined types with 219 ready next month at 10 lines and G4R7 ready in Dec at 10 lines. 7 lines at present for 88G, hoping to get that to 10 asap. 4 lines on each of the 109/190 night fighters. These are a real blessing when released to proper day fighting around March. And no, I'm not short on spare 109's either having @1100 of those waiting to be shot down....

BTW, how do you play the situation in Italy? Especially after the XVth airforce comes on line. Do you feel recons area threat? I have a pet hate for recons.

(in reply to Stefan123)

Post #: 4

RE: German night fighters R&D, speed or range? - 11/25/2020 5:24:15 PM

Stefan123

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/9/2019
Status: offline

It depends on tactics i guess.
My soly Night production 43 is the Ju88C6 with 6 per day. Its on the lower side and is optimised to free up ressources for the main struggle (day/fighter dilemma)

Its just enough to replace all 100G4 in 43 with it, i struggeld quiet a bit with the night side in the past, after i chanced Tactics to make most dmg over Target area it works.
Im not banking on Radar to make contacts, i saturate the Target area, the flak plays a vital role (DMG/searchlights) in this. (RailFlak Traps in Ruhrgebiet- Essen, Berlin)

Im wondering with all this NF research and Prod whats your Research Day/Fighter?

Italy: Jes Recon ramps up then, i mostly ignore it, i monitor the Action this day List to get a warning/feel for it generally.

Intercept wise, only Patols in the fligtpath right alt somewhat work, atleast G5/6, A5. Added micro with questionable results.
Best Plattform seems Re2005 until arival 109G5/AS.

My issue is, there are just too many and i cant afford the added Fatuige/Morale loss for the added sorties.
The Intensy and Focus of the Airfield Raids of the AI is just too high and eats up Morale.
My hand is forced because of this, i CANT accept Veteran Pilots beeing killed on ground so i intercept ALL of em. Anywhere.
My reaction to Figther sweeps eat up alot sorties/Morale too, took me a long time until figuring it out, almost no losses on ground now.
Overall K/D 1:3- 1:4 but i struggle with morale.

(in reply to mark dolby)

Post #: 5

RE: German night fighters R&D, speed or range? - 11/26/2020 5:44:59 PM

mark dolby

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/22/2019
From: Caernarfon, United Kingdom
Status: offline

Morale is the issue. I'm doing a study on effects by results. Examples include changing base and losing Commanding officer. Not many actions seem to increase morale.
I seem to be defending Italy with more than usual having 9 gruppen, 5 stabs and 2 staffel although only 2 stabs and the 1 staffel are south of Florence. G55's are good for recon bouncing.

Production at end of turn 62. Numbers are producing/total with retooling. I have not included those assemblies set for late in the war.
G6 15 A6 13 G5AS 11/21 D9 10 219 8/10 G4R7 8/10 88G 7 152H 6 190G 6 A8R7 5
110G2 5 G6U 4 262 4 A5U 2/4 162 2 154 1 K4 1/10 152C 0/2 G14 0/3 A8 0/1 410A 0/1

The 2 lines for 219 and G4R7 respectively become active at the end of this turn. I have restarted the 410 production as it can be useful and the high number of sturm 190's reflects the use I can get out of them in certain tactical situations. I prefer the longer range on the 190G to the extra mg on the 190F. Most G6 will go to G5AS when it enters production and 110G2 will be reduced once the longer range US fighters make an appearance (probably put into 88G). The A6 will also become redundant soon, I find the lack of ability above 22K reason enough although no suitable replacements are forthcoming until the 190D.

(in reply to Stefan123)

Post #: 6