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Logistics system failure. - 12/4/2020 1:13:17 PM

Hazard151

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I have a truck station at 10;36 on a two way road, equidistant between two cities, one to the NE, one to the SW. It sends all its logistics points to the SW despite there being no traffic signs on the route. The SHQ is in the city to the NE.

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RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/4/2020 1:46:58 PM

Destragon

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You should post some screenshots. From the description alone it doesn't necessarily sound like a bug yet. Logistics are dragged into the direction of pull points, not towards the SHQ.

(in reply to Hazard151)

Post #: 2

RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/4/2020 3:15:31 PM

Hazard151

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/15/2020
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I'd love to post screenshots, if I could take screenshots.

That said, it seems to have something to do with the other city drawing upon the logistics network with 4000 or so pullpoints. Interestingly, while population migration happens easily enough because some 6300 population moved along that road this turn, it can't move stockpiles because all logistics are consumed.

This is annoying, because that means I can't move some 9500 recruits and several thousand food to my SHQ.

(in reply to Destragon)

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RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/4/2020 4:20:36 PM

Shards

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That sounds like you've got a massive resource requirement at the other town?

I managed to hugely handicap myself in a recent game by nationalising the food production in a newly conquered town, which of course didn't run at full capacity due to unrest. This then put a huge load on my logistics network to deliver 1000's of food to that town to feed the population, bringing the transfer of replacement troops to the front line to a complete standstill!

Lesson 1, don't nationalise food production in a disloyal town
Lesson 2, logistics pipelines between zones need to be super fat

(in reply to Hazard151)

Post #: 4

RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/4/2020 11:56:52 PM

Hazard151

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/15/2020
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Except I don't.

There are two towns down that road.

The further one has a workforce of about 21 000 people, and an Industry 1, Bureaucratic Office 2, Bio-Fuel 1, Solar Panels 1, Agri-Dome 1 assets, with the dome being upgraded to level 2, leaving aside the private assets

This combines into 210 food for the people, 200 food for the fuel plant, 80 total energy, 200 water and less than 50 total resources for the agridome upgrade (I've got a metal crunch going on). It produces 416 food, 5.2k water (coastal zone), 228 fuel, 114 energy, 153 industrial points and 500 recruits. It stores some 1800 food and 5000 recruits. It has a total logistics pull of 1000 or so, which is high but not unreasonably so.

It pulls less than 450 logistics points to supply itself with resources, and it pulls less than 450 logistics points to ship resources to the SHQ even at minimum efficiency. Fuel, water, energy and IP are after all logistically weightless resources when shipped between zones. The pull rating, when city pull is one, is 1k pull points.

The closer one, which is the one causing problems, has a total workforce of about 12000 people Bureaucratic Offices 2, a Truckstation 2, Oil Drill 1 and that's it for public assets. As far as transport demands go, it consumes some 120 food and produces 500 recruits, everything else is a weightless resource. The zone also stores 3200 food (maxing the food storage, it's force selling food while my SHQ is slowly losing food), 428 munitions (militia replacement production, my munition stores are also dropping, slowly) and 4500 recruits.

But for some reason, this zone is pulling 4000 logistics points, drawing the complete logistical effort of the truck facility. The road's pulling some 1900 points towards the town from the truck station, while the road the other way only receives 150 or so, resulting in there effectively being no transport capacity.

I can, with traffic signs, adjust that to the point it should drain slowly over time, and hopefully get a reasonable result, but if I don't block pull points the entire thing explodes.

Also, those towns have been loyal for many turns, with private farms for their food supply. Looking back in the autosave record, it appears to have started when my logistical support was very thin and a stockpile of food and recruits started forming in the zone. I could probably also resolve the issue by yanking the entire military which was operating at about that time in the area back towards the SHQ and let it drain the resources over time, but the resource flow for production is sufficiently demanding now I'd also need to decrease my workforce just for a chance to get things back in order.

< Message edited by Hazard151 -- 12/5/2020 12:01:28 AM >

(in reply to Shards)

Post #: 5

RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/5/2020 8:34:37 AM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
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Hi Hazard,

Send a savegame to vic@vrdesigns.net with a link to this thread and i'll take a look. Maybe a bug, maybe your missing something... lets see.

Best wishes,
Vic

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Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Hazard151)

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RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/5/2020 9:30:01 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

I managed to hugely handicap myself in a recent game by nationalising the food production in a newly conquered town, which of course didn't run at full capacity due to unrest. This then put a huge load on my logistics network to deliver 1000's of food to that town to feed the population, bringing the transfer of replacement troops to the front line to a complete standstill!

Some small corrections to this:
- only worker food needs to use the Logistics System
- private food that is produced locally does not use it
- emergency food also does not use logistics points. It just needs a proof that stuff could flow

But overall, nationalizing food production is always a bad idea. Always build you own one. You really do not want to have to deal with food produciton for the private economy!

(in reply to Shards)

Post #: 7

RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/5/2020 11:24:48 PM

Hazard151

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For one, it's expensive, as it needs water (and energy in case of domes) for production on top of manpower you need to pay for. For another, the locals are going to build farms to support the local population anyway, might as well just let them and take your tithe.

It's not as manpower efficient, but it makes you money instead of costing it.

(in reply to zgrssd)

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RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/6/2020 12:25:56 AM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hazard151

For one, it's expensive, as it needs water (and energy in case of domes) for production on top of manpower you need to pay for. For another, the locals are going to build farms to support the local population anyway, might as well just let them and take your tithe.

It's not as manpower efficient, but it makes you money instead of costing it.

Generally I always rely on the Privat Economy feeding the Private Citizens for me. I avoid touching their food whenever possible.

I do still build public Farming assets however. Actually water and power are not a big issue - at least for buildings, Water, Fuel and Electricity travel for free on the Logistics network (same as Emergency food and IP).
So if you do got a decent amount of workers needing food there (more then the Private economies kickbacks can handle), it is better to build a local farm.
Transporting the water and power is free, transporting the food is not. Plus a distributed production is less vulnerable to logistics disruptions overall. As opposed to a focussed one, wich is way more upkeep efficient.

(in reply to Hazard151)

Post #: 9

RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/6/2020 2:13:48 AM

Hazard151

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Joined: 6/15/2020
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Water can be an issue on low water planets, especially early on. As a Major you are guaranteed access to water through a mine, but that's a mine you need to build and exploit as well. Mostly,it's a logistics risk to deal with because securing your borders can be hard and inconvenient.

That said, food has two uses; feeding your employees, and conversion into fuel at low tech levels. And it's pretty good at both.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 10

RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/7/2020 8:24:07 AM

Vic

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Joined: 5/17/2004
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Hi,

Just took a look. You better build a Truck Station in the same City as the SHQ :)

The Pull System makes the Truck Station at 10,26 assign its Logistical Points downstream from the SHQ source by nature. Expecting another Logistical Point source to take care of the connection between it and SHQ.

To remedy your situation without building a Truck Station put some traffic lights that block Pull Points on 10,26. Like shown in screeny

Its an interesting savefile. Thanks. I am making note for possible future improvements to the Pull system.

best,
Vic

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Vic -- 12/7/2020 8:26:13 AM >

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Hazard151)

Post #: 11

RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/7/2020 1:20:29 PM

Hazard151

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/15/2020
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I figured it'd be something like that. Onwards to nationalizing the transportation assets then.

The pull system works, but sometimes you just get edge cases like these.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 12

RE: Logistics system failure. - 12/7/2020 1:21:52 PM

Destragon

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Joined: 6/8/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Its an interesting savefile. Thanks. I am making note for possible future improvements to the Pull system.

Are you considering making some pull points also be assigned onto the hex of the SHQ, so that logistics assets that are on other tiles than the SHQ's actually make sure that there is no bottleneck between them and the SHQ?

I was gonna make a thread about that, too, but haven't yet, because I assume the pull points system is low priority right now.

This is one of my two or so issues that I have with the current pull points system, the other issue being that pull points don't consider how much action points the logistics runners still have, so that they send runners that lose half their LIS once they reach the destination, but this is probably not getting changed any time soon.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 13