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Sweden - 8/14/2003 12:39:07 AM   
Nordiska

 

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Will Sweden be a playable nation in the game? I vaguely remember the board game from years ago, but I'm fairly sure there was an optional rule for Sweden to be a playable country. Will this be in the game?
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- 8/14/2003 1:19:51 AM   
Guillotine GM

 

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Hi,

Should be, IMO.
I rewrote the Swedish Rules to make the available for EiH. What is more, I'm currenlty GMing one EiH pbem game with Sweden as a Major Power, and it works quite nice.

Waldek

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- 8/14/2003 12:39:18 PM   
peskpesk


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I too, hope Sweden will be in the game. It would rock!
But then I hope you have the option to play all minors in the game. :cool:

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What a coincidence. - 8/14/2003 8:58:07 PM   
Le Tondu


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Funny thing is that last night I began reading about Sweden's Army in "1813 LEIPZIG" by Digby Smith. I knew almost nothing regarding them before I did. Can anyone say what Sweden did before 1813? Thanks.

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We fought everybody in scandinavia! - 8/14/2003 9:05:30 PM   
peskpesk


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Well, we sweds fought with everybody in Scandinavia of course :D

Here is two good links if you want to read some on the net.

http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/slkrig_eng.htm
http://www.neva.ru/EXPO96/book/chap5-2.html

We still morn at Poltava!

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Re: We fought everybody in scandinavia! - 8/14/2003 10:20:12 PM   
U2


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by peskpesk
[B]Well, we sweds fought with everybody in Scandinavia of course :D

[/B][/QUOTE]

and then some;)

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- 8/14/2003 11:49:45 PM   
Nordiska

 

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Well I do know that Sweden was on the down side. After the Great Northern Wars in the early 1700's under charles XII their era of dominance ended. Napoleon's marshall Bernadotte became King of Sweden and Sweden joined the alliance against France.

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- 8/15/2003 1:00:07 PM   
peskpesk


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Well, it mostly true. But durin 1805-1814 we fought many wars!

Look:

1805-1807 In war with France, "The Pommern War" or "The
Napoleon War of King Gustav IV Adolf".
Allied with Sweden: England plus periodically Russia,
Austria and Prussia.
Peace in Paris on January 6, 1810.

!808 In war with Denmark, The Norwegian campaign.
Allied with Sweden: England.
Peace in Jönköping on December 10, 1809.

1808-1809 In war with Russia, "The Finnish War".
Allied with Sweden: England.
Peace on September 17, 1809 in Fredrikshamnn. -
Sweden lost Finland, Åland, part of Västerbotten

1810-1812 In war with England,
Peace on July 18, 1812 in Örebro.

1813-1814 In war with France and Denmark, "The Napoleon War
of King Karl XIV Johan".
Allied with Sweden: England, Russia, Austria and
German states.

War campaign in Germany against Napoleon (France)
and a war with Denmark.
The Swedish King, Karl XIV Johan, was Commander-in-
chief of the allied Northern Army. That was an Army of
155.000 troopers.
Sweden also made an attack on Denmark (The danes
were an allied of Napoleon).
Peace on January 15, 1814 in Kiel with Denmark.
Peace on May 30, 1814 in Paris with France. Sweden
lost Swedish Pommern inclusive Rügen.

1814 The Norwegian Campaign. Peace in Moss.

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- 8/15/2003 6:57:53 PM   
Nordiska

 

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Excellent, even more reason why Sweden should be a playable nation!

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Yes indeed. - 8/15/2003 8:26:20 PM   
Le Tondu


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nordiska
[B]Excellent, even more reason why Sweden should be a playable nation! [/B][/QUOTE]

He makes quite a case. What a great idea.

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Include Sweden as in EiA - 8/15/2003 8:54:03 PM   
peskpesk


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So, EiA Developers what do you say? Can we please get Sweden in the GAME!! :D

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- 8/15/2003 9:40:49 PM   
Nordiska

 

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Imagine the manpower shortages of Sweden. I would love to play them, they could really harass the Northern European plain. I want Sweden!!!:)

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- 8/16/2003 1:24:51 AM   
Nordiska

 

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I was right in remembering that sweden could be a major power. Check out this link.
Click on scenarios, you can see the Swedish rules.

http://members.fortunecity.com/lobodeoro080888/eia/

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- 8/17/2003 3:02:19 AM   
Forward_March

 

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Unfortunately, Sweden lies very close to a hungry Russia. France, Austria, and Prussia will be too busy with eachother, and a bit of blockade won't hurt the Russians too much. Alliance with Spain? Turkey? Charles the XII found how little help the Grand Wazoo was. I'd give Sweden about 3 months to be relegated to "pointless" status.

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- 8/18/2003 3:00:49 PM   
Hoplosternum


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I agree with Forward March the game for Sweden is likely to be pretty shortlived or if playing with options that preserve major powers still as a wipping boy. How will it be able to get surrenders off anyone? Yet it will be forced to surrender by anyone with a decent fleet. It will end up as a client state to Russia or England most likely.

Also as a major power it will also detract from the diplomacy of the game. Russia has few minors in it's sphere of influence that it can really protect. Sweden is the main one. It is also a very valuable minor and so can cause friction between major powers as to who owns it and with it's three Corps and Fleets whether it is a Free State or not. By providing a conflict of interest between Russia and Britain (both want it and can easily take it) I think it provides useful scope for diplomacy and conflict between powers which might otherwise spend the whole game as unbreakable allies.

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Please give us the option! - 8/18/2003 3:15:51 PM   
peskpesk


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Sure, it's diffuclt to play Sweden. You need do be a expert
on diplomacy and a master on when to join a war. In our games
we always have Sweden as the 8th major power. Sometimes
Sweden get crushed early but in other games the expand slowly
and surive. I have even seen it become a super power in one game.
And yes it does change EiA game focus for some other Major powers, but then you have "new" fun game to play!

BUT remeber where the thing we want is a option to have Sweden as a major power, so if you like it. You can include
Sweden in the game, or turn it of if you don't like it.

Please give us the option!

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- 8/18/2003 8:39:40 PM   
Nordiska

 

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I couldn't have said it better myself. More countries=more playability. An optional sweden would be great.

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- 8/18/2003 10:54:37 PM   
YohanTM2

 

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And hey, trying to get 7 committed EiA platers is going to be tough enough

I do agree it would impact diplomacy a ton as Russia would really have no option but to go straight into conflict with other majors and maybe try to creating Poland.

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- 8/19/2003 4:30:40 AM   
Supervisor

 

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Russia would go directly to war with Sweden in the beginning of the game. Sweden would get spanked. Turkey can not afford to even begin to invade Russia that early in the game, and Britain has no real land army yet. Prussia and Austria can't offend Russia that early, becuase they might seriously need Russian support later on against France. If you have an aggressive Russian player, then Sweden is toast.

But then again, if Matrix Games decides to make it an option, Im all for whatever makes people happy, as long as it doesn't delay the making of this game anymore than it already is.

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- 8/19/2003 12:50:18 PM   
peskpesk


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I would like to see all nations, big and small playable by a human player as an option. If somebody wants to be Saxony? Fine, give it s shot and good luck, who knows against 7 AI players you might survive a 1 year or more but what a challange...
The point is, it should be the same system for all countries. But then there are no rules and charts for playing most minor countries and not enough time for matrix games to fix it to version 1.0.
So my hope for 1.0 is Sweden. There are semi-official rules and chart available and just to plug in. I have seen Many EiA board games where Sweden is used as the 8 major power and it has been very fun games too.
Please just make Sweden a option we don't want to destroy the
Classic EiA for you out there who likes classic EiA. ;)

My guess is the Matrix games are not going to make a Swedish option for release 1.0 anyway, but we can hope. :D
What do you say Ross?

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- 8/19/2003 2:56:27 PM   
Hoplosternum


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Peskpesk,

I have no problem with options. Just don't think this is a great one thats all :)

If Matrix are going to add options there is a long list that I would add before this one.

I do understand that people may want to try minors against the AIs especially. But I think games like EU and EU2 are much better for this. In those games you have time to really turn them into major forces by setting up colonies and building up your starting area. EiA is a different animal IMHO.

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Post #: 21
SWEDISH RULES - 8/20/2003 2:07:58 PM   
peskpesk


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Before everybody rejects, the Swedish option, please read the rules and Try it in your next game! You might be supries by the "new" EiA. :D :D


SWEDISH RULES

Swedish Rules, courtesy of Todd

Sweden as the Eighth Major Power
Theses are the rules for Sweden as an eight Major Power in an 1805 Campaign Game from The General. Information not related to the 1805 game is left out. I have corrected a few mistakes in the original text, as well as cleared out some inconsistencies. I do not guarantee that my interpretations of these are right, but they are the ones that will be used in the Bernadotte game. All parts of the text that has been modified are in brackets [ ].

1. SWEDISH NATIONAL EFFORT:

Sweden starts with [Sweden, Finland and Pomerania as home provinces]. These territories are worth double value as long as held by Sweden. Pomerania and Finland revert to their printed values whenever controlled by anyone else. Subsequent reacquisition by Sweden does not double their values again.

However, no Swedish militia is allowed to enter any province that could not be included in Greater Scandinavia (see below). This rule is meant to simulate the cheaper costs of raising an army by Sweden during its times of national crisis.

Similarly, Norway's money and manpower values are doubled to [4/4] when Sweden first gets control of it. It reverts back to [2/2] if Sweden loses possession, and does not change again, even if Sweden gets control a second time. [Unless as part of a Danish free state, or upon the creation of Greater Scandinavia, in which case it is doubled in the usual manner].

2. FINANCES AND ECONOMIC MANIPULATION:

Use the following Economic Manipulation Display:


MONEY -15 -9 0 0 0 +8 +8
PSA +2 +1 +1 0 -2 -2 -3
MANPOWER -6 0 -5 0+4 0 +4


Sweden begins the 1805 campaign game with a treasury of $30. Sweden pays only $7 and one MP to build each ship due to the presence of an abundant, inexpensive source of timber in Sweden.

Prussia starts the game with an additional $10 in 1805 and receives $10 in January 1806 and $6 each January thereafter (to compensate for the loss of Pomerania). The additional money ends if Prussia controls Pomerania at any time. If Prussia controls Pomerania, it becomes a Prussian home province.



3. MILITARY FORCES:

Sweden's morale levels are like 'other major powers': Five for Guards, four for Cavalry, three for Infantry, two for militia. [Swedish naval factors have morale of 3.0].

Corps I may hold 2G, 12I/M, 3C. Corps II and III may hold 12I/M, 2C. Corps IV and V may hold 8I/M, 1C. Corps VI (allowed upon the creation of Greater Scandinavia) may hold 12I/M, 1C. In the 1805 campaign, Corps V and the fifth depot may not be used before 1810.

All Swedish Corps have an intrinsic strategic rating of one and an intrinsic tactical rating of two.

Starting forces: 18I, 1Gd, 5M, 4C, 12S, 4depots

4. LEADERS:

Sweden starts 1805 with CHARLES [322B] and GUSTAVUS [222A]. If Greater Scandinavia is formed, add the Danish leader CHRISTIAN [212C]. In 1810, BERNADOTTE becomes Swedish.

5. ORDER OF MOVEMENT:

Sweden makes its land moves between Prussia and Great Britain and its naval moves between Prussia and France.

6. ALLIANCE DIE ROLLS:

Sweden's national modifiers versus Denmark, Mecklenburg and Hanover are '+1' and versus all countries in Africa and the Mid-East it is '-2'.

7. POLITICAL STATUS DISPLAY CHART AND VICTORY POINTS:

Sweden starts all games on the Political Status Display at the same spot as Sp (I) in each campaign game. If Stockholm is occupied by another power, Sweden loses one political point.


ADJUSTED VICTORY LEVELS

Sweden 320 (290)
Great Britain 350 (310)
Russia 315 (285)
Prussia 300 (270)


8. DOMINANT NATION STATUS:

To achieve Dominant Nation Status, Sweden must control [all Home Nation Provinces plus Norway, Denmark, Karelia] and two of [the following three territories]: Mecklenburg, Hanover and Livonia. [Sweden, and Sweden only, can demand that Karelia is ceded from Russia in a formal peace. This has no further negative effects on Russia than the actual loss of the province. There is no -1PP loss per turn for Sweden holding St.Petersburg when Karelia is ceded].

9. NEW POLITICAL COMBINATIONS:

Greater Scandinavia cannot be formed until 1807. It is not formed automatically, but rather is formed at the option of the Swedish player.

Greater Scandinavia can be created if Sweden controls Denmark and Norway, while maintaining control of Finland and Pomerania. Greater Scandinavia can be formed only once per game. The Swedish player can elect to incorporate all Danish troops and ships into the Swedish Army. The Danish Corp and Fleet are exchanged for the Swedish Corp VI and Fleet II and the leader CHRISTIAN is placed with Corps VI.

Should any other player capture Copenhagen later, CHRISTIAN, Corp VI and Fleet II are removed and replaced with the original Danish counters under control of the liberator. These units are recreated with the same number of units that were present when Greater Scandinavia was created. Sweden removes immediately that number of troops and ships from any Swedish units, including the departing Corps VI and Fleet II.

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- 8/20/2003 8:15:22 PM   
Hoplosternum


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Hi peskpesk,

Interesting rules :)

But they are even worse than I had thought :(

No decent leaders, few starting troops, lands which once lost come back worse should they be recovered and needing more VPs to win than Russia or Prussia :eek: Even 'doubled' it just won't have the manpower to build up or recover quickly from any big battles.

This is clearly s favourite option of yours and so I hope it makes it in to the game at some stage for your sake :) But quite frankly this would be by far the weakest power in the game. It's isolated position may save it for a while but also marginalises it in diplomacy. Unlike Prussia (say) it just cannot influence events by it's geography. No one will have a stake in it's survival unlike Prussia nor think twice about letting it down.

Sweden will have to hope the coalition it joins wins and it gets included in the peace. All the time hoping that neither Britain or Russia (or possibly Spain or France) takes it out.

The small powers can be frustrating to play at the best of times. I cannot see many takers for Sweden for a game that will go the distance....

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Post #: 23
- 8/20/2003 8:32:55 PM   
peskpesk


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I just say, try it before you "diss" it completely. You never know...
:)

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Post #: 24
- 8/20/2003 9:44:12 PM   
Nordiska

 

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What needs to be remembered here is that Sweden was on its demise in the early 1800's. Sweden needs to be played in such a way (look at it as) they are trying to regain major power status. Sweden can never be a major power in EIA, it can just be a spoiler is all. Sort of like playing Italy in a ww2 game. It can never dominate the battle field, but in the right place at the right time it can make a difference.

After all, in most ww2 games you can play the Germans, in an expansion they add North Africa/ Italian forces into the games.

After beating the game a few times as several powers, I think it would be awesome to try your hand as an 'underdog" and make some spoiling attacks etc. Replayability would be even greater.

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Post #: 25
Sweden - 9/17/2003 3:47:58 PM   
Camile Desmoulins


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Another thing is if it changes or not the balance of the game. Personally I agree with which Sweden puts on, because I think that they define a different, realler balance, but balance at last. They make the game more complicated for Russia and more difficult for Great Britain; if Sweden is introduced, it would be necessary to modify some things of Russia and Gb (for example, the points of victory in the scenarios and campaigns). I would prefer more as option than a fix major power

Is playable Sweden as 8º major power?. I think that yes, it can be given some advantages that make him the most placid life, as strengthening their leaders' capacity, to give him a naval leader, to enlarge the size and number of their Corps and to give him a certain economic capacity. This, together to the player's intense diplomatic work, would give him enough it forces, and it would not be more difficult of playing that, for example, Prussia. Supposedly, the inconvenience of Sweden is that only hard 3 months, but I don't know how many survive Prussia in 1805 faced in solitary to France.

We developed house rules for Sweden, I think better than Todd´s rules
are you interesting?

regards

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