Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Encircled

Basically this

I've nothing that stands up to them, or am I just doing it wrong?

Or better not to go up at all and let my flak defend my bases?

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

If so, what with? What planes, what's the speed differential, MVR bands, altitude, radar, pilot experience...

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ORIGINAL: Encircled

Sorry, was a quick post on my phone!

Its April 1943

So its P-40K, E, Aircobras mainly

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Pilot experience is good (70+)

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TBF, in the three really big sweeps so far, he's had far more than me, so numbers alone would count massively against me.

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But in all of them, I had my fighters at their best maneuverable band

I take it layered CAP, every plane at its best band and a lot is the way forward?

I have tended not to bother with CAP in Burma, but a load of Georges appeared in SWPAC, so just looking to see if there is more I can do

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: Encircled

Sorry, was a quick post on my phone!

Its April 1943

So its P-40K, E, Aircobras mainly

So all three of which are generally inferior airframes to the George, so you're already sailing into the wind a little.

quote:

Pilot experience is good (70+)

That's good, but what about the defence skill? That's the key role in my view against sweeps, as it tends to turn high altitude sweeps into furballs (where the defending side can even the score) which tend to generate equal exchanges.

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TBF, in the three really big sweeps so far, he's had far more than me, so numbers alone would count massively against me.

So there's that. 25 planes will be whooped by 45 planes nine times out of ten. Quantity has a quality of its own etc.

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But in all of them, I had my fighters at their best maneuverable band

I take it layered CAP, every plane at its best band and a lot is the way forward?

I have tended not to bother with CAP in Burma, but a load of Georges appeared in SWPAC, so just looking to see if there is more I can do

That's good, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Deploying individual squadrons at their optimum altitude doesn't mean that your whole force is deployed optimally. Airacobra's at 5k are not going to be helpful to the P40K's at 20k.

Try stacking everyone between 1-5k. You've got nothing that can dependably get the bounce on George's sweeping from 30k or higher, so why bother playing the altitude game? Make them come fight you down in the weeds.

Sure, you'll take a hit from the bounce, but the bounce doesn't last forever. At that low altitude, you'll enable the other planes from your CAP to climb above the fight and dive on the Georges in turn. With such close altitude bands, all your CAP will be mutually supporting, and you're still flying CAP at a high enough altitude that any IJ bomber raids should get shredded (provided you've radar for the warning).

You won't completely reverse the trend, as it will still be a sweep with a superior airframe and a tactical advantage, but you will eek things out into a more equal exchange.

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ORIGINAL: Encircled

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Sorry, was a quick post on my phone!

Its April 1943

So its P-40K, E, Aircobras mainly

So all three of which are generally inferior airframes to the George, so you're already sailing into the wind a little.

quote:

Pilot experience is good (70+)

That's good, but what about the defence skill? That's the key role in my view against sweeps, as it tends to turn high altitude sweeps into furballs (where the defending side can even the score) which tend to generate equal exchanges.

quote:

TBF, in the three really big sweeps so far, he's had far more than me, so numbers alone would count massively against me.

So there's that. 25 planes will be whooped by 45 planes nine times out of ten. Quantity has a quality of its own etc.

quote:

But in all of them, I had my fighters at their best maneuverable band

I take it layered CAP, every plane at its best band and a lot is the way forward?

I have tended not to bother with CAP in Burma, but a load of Georges appeared in SWPAC, so just looking to see if there is more I can do

That's good, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Deploying individual squadrons at their optimum altitude doesn't mean that your whole force is deployed optimally. Airacobra's at 5k are not going to be helpful to the P40K's at 20k.

Try stacking everyone between 1-5k. You've got nothing that can dependably get the bounce on George's sweeping from 30k or higher, so why bother playing the altitude game? Make them come fight you down in the weeds.

Sure, you'll take a hit from the bounce, but the bounce doesn't last forever. At that low altitude, you'll enable the other planes from your CAP to climb above the fight and dive on the Georges in turn. With such close altitude bands, all your CAP will be mutually supporting, and you're still flying CAP at a high enough altitude that any IJ bomber raids should get shredded (provided you've radar for the warning).

You won't completely reverse the trend, as it will still be a sweep with a superior airframe and a tactical advantage, but you will eek things out into a more equal exchange.

Yup, know I have inferior planes. I have some Corsairs and some Aussie Spits, but not enough of them

Defence skills are all 70 +, I really, really, really train my pilots!

Cheers for the advice

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: Encircled

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Sorry, was a quick post on my phone!

Its April 1943

So its P-40K, E, Aircobras mainly

So all three of which are generally inferior airframes to the George, so you're already sailing into the wind a little.

quote:

Pilot experience is good (70+)

That's good, but what about the defence skill? That's the key role in my view against sweeps, as it tends to turn high altitude sweeps into furballs (where the defending side can even the score) which tend to generate equal exchanges.

quote:

TBF, in the three really big sweeps so far, he's had far more than me, so numbers alone would count massively against me.

So there's that. 25 planes will be whooped by 45 planes nine times out of ten. Quantity has a quality of its own etc.

quote:

But in all of them, I had my fighters at their best maneuverable band

I take it layered CAP, every plane at its best band and a lot is the way forward?

I have tended not to bother with CAP in Burma, but a load of Georges appeared in SWPAC, so just looking to see if there is more I can do

That's good, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Deploying individual squadrons at their optimum altitude doesn't mean that your whole force is deployed optimally. Airacobra's at 5k are not going to be helpful to the P40K's at 20k.

Try stacking everyone between 1-5k. You've got nothing that can dependably get the bounce on George's sweeping from 30k or higher, so why bother playing the altitude game? Make them come fight you down in the weeds.

Sure, you'll take a hit from the bounce, but the bounce doesn't last forever. At that low altitude, you'll enable the other planes from your CAP to climb above the fight and dive on the Georges in turn. With such close altitude bands, all your CAP will be mutually supporting, and you're still flying CAP at a high enough altitude that any IJ bomber raids should get shredded (provided you've radar for the warning).

You won't completely reverse the trend, as it will still be a sweep with a superior airframe and a tactical advantage, but you will eek things out into a more equal exchange.

Yup, know I have inferior planes. I have some Corsairs and some Aussie Spits, but not enough of them

Defence skills are all 70 +, I really, really, really train my pilots!

Cheers for the advice

It's not all in the planes (though they do help a great deal!). I've had some great results facing Thuds with some real chaff (Nicks, Oscars) mixed in with the sharks. That's fine for Japan as you can leverage production to keep up an attrition war.

Less so for the Allies, but you can really lean on flak as the Allies in a much heavier way than you can as Japan, which means you can concentrate your fighters much more densely. In short, if you're facing serious opposition and you can't put a 100+ plane CAP up, don't bother and lean on flak till you can.

I'd also thing about this problem from an offensive mindset as well. George is a good plane, but the first model is SR 3 - not great, not terrible, but a night-time, low altitude 4E raid on their home airbase either before or following a sweep will keep them down, and the best place to destroy any plane is on the ground.

In the context of SWPAC, I'd also consider using a couple task forces of destroyers (and maybe a CL or three) on bombardment runs where possible. 5 and 6 inch naval gunfire won't cause the big holes you'd get from battleships, but it will certainly make it a nuisance to keep up offensive operations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Sorry, was a quick post on my phone!

Its April 1943

So its P-40K, E, Aircobras mainly

So all three of which are generally inferior airframes to the George, so you're already sailing into the wind a little.

quote:

Pilot experience is good (70+)

That's good, but what about the defence skill? That's the key role in my view against sweeps, as it tends to turn high altitude sweeps into furballs (where the defending side can even the score) which tend to generate equal exchanges.

quote:

TBF, in the three really big sweeps so far, he's had far more than me, so numbers alone would count massively against me.

So there's that. 25 planes will be whooped by 45 planes nine times out of ten. Quantity has a quality of its own etc.

quote:

But in all of them, I had my fighters at their best maneuverable band

I take it layered CAP, every plane at its best band and a lot is the way forward?

I have tended not to bother with CAP in Burma, but a load of Georges appeared in SWPAC, so just looking to see if there is more I can do

That's good, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Deploying individual squadrons at their optimum altitude doesn't mean that your whole force is deployed optimally. Airacobra's at 5k are not going to be helpful to the P40K's at 20k.

Try stacking everyone between 1-5k. You've got nothing that can dependably get the bounce on George's sweeping from 30k or higher, so why bother playing the altitude game? Make them come fight you down in the weeds.

Sure, you'll take a hit from the bounce, but the bounce doesn't last forever. At that low altitude, you'll enable the other planes from your CAP to climb above the fight and dive on the Georges in turn. With such close altitude bands, all your CAP will be mutually supporting, and you're still flying CAP at a high enough altitude that any IJ bomber raids should get shredded (provided you've radar for the warning).

You won't completely reverse the trend, as it will still be a sweep with a superior airframe and a tactical advantage, but you will eek things out into a more equal exchange.

Yup, know I have inferior planes. I have some Corsairs and some Aussie Spits, but not enough of them

Defence skills are all 70 +, I really, really, really train my pilots!

Cheers for the advice

It's not all in the planes (though they do help a great deal!). I've had some great results facing Thuds with some real chaff (Nicks, Oscars) mixed in with the sharks. That's fine for Japan as you can leverage production to keep up an attrition war.

Less so for the Allies, but you can really lean on flak as the Allies in a much heavier way than you can as Japan, which means you can concentrate your fighters much more densely. In short, if you're facing serious opposition and you can't put a 100+ plane CAP up, don't bother and lean on flak till you can.

I'd also thing about this problem from an offensive mindset as well. George is a good plane, but the first model is SR 3 - not great, not terrible, but a night-time, low altitude 4E raid on their home airbase either before or following a sweep will keep them down, and the best place to destroy any plane is on the ground.

In the context of SWPAC, I'd also consider using a couple task forces of destroyers (and maybe a CL or three) on bombardment runs where possible. 5 and 6 inch naval gunfire won't cause the big holes you'd get from battleships, but it will certainly make it a nuisance to keep up offensive operations.

Night bombing check!

Bombardments are trickier but Fletchers are coming on line, and they give me a bit more range, so will be using them a lot more I think

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing


Try stacking everyone between 1-5k. You've got nothing that can dependably get the bounce on George's sweeping from 30k or higher, so why bother playing the altitude game? Make them come fight you down in the weeds.

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ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


Try stacking everyone between 1-5k. You've got nothing that can dependably get the bounce on George's sweeping from 30k or higher, so why bother playing the altitude game? Make them come fight you down in the weeds.

So the sweepers come down to the CAP altitude?

I always thought CAP always went to intercept at the altitude of the incoming raiders? Whether they were sweepers or bombers.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Combat altitude is not fixed.

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