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New IJN PBM Player Needs Advice - 7/19/2003 2:30:11 AM   
joliverlay

 

Posts: 635
Joined: 1/28/2003
Status: offline 		I need advice from vetern IJN players.

It is May 15th 1942.

Today I captured Port Morsbey (good news) but I lost a CV to CV fight with the allies near Numoa. I will likley lose one CV whereas the american will lose 0 and send back one or both to Pearl.

OK....I managed to get the best opportunity to cripple the two american CVs and instead damaged both of mine (one will likely sink). What should I do now? Dig in and hold on for the remaining 19 months or keep attacking and risk losing more carriers?

[I never imagined my CVs would lose a fair fight in the first two weeks of the game. Based on the posts I don't think provoking a CV/CV fight was a bad idea....I just did not think his naval air would hurt me.....and that I would hurt him!!!

Please advise, I'd like to give my allied opponent a challenging game.

Banzi, joliverlay
Post #: 1
- 7/19/2003 10:34:01 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		Congratulations on taking Port Moresby, that's a big step.

You need to decide if you are going to try to win on points or go for the auto-victory. To win the auto-victory you need to capture and hold one of the Australia mainland bases, or Noumea (is Luganville on the list as well? Not sure). If the base is in your hands as of 1/1/43 you win the game.

I can't imagine what your carriers were doing roaming so far from home early on in the game, except asking for trouble. If you get in a CV vs CV battle out of range of your air bases, if you lose your carriers you also lose their air groups. If you lose a carrier near a friendly base your air groups can escape to fight another day. Travelling down to Noumea seems like a bad idea with no visible advantage to it, and you paid the price losing that CV. Anyway, it's in the past and you want to know what to do now.

I guess you also learned your lesson on the issue of Allied vs IJN carrier air power. A lot of vocal people on the forums here think that the IJN is strongly favored early in the game, but I dont think it is true. Those American carriers are dangerous from turn 1 onward. :)

You need to start building up a network of defenses, build up bases supporting one another and keeping fresh ground troops in them as garrisons. I wouldnt risk any more carriers as you may have already blown your advantage. Definitely to range too far with your carriers again...wait until you get some more as reinforcements and then keep the CVs together.

Let me know what your strategy is and I will try to give you some more specific advice. Good luck!

_____________________________

"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan

"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket

"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 2
- 7/22/2003 1:28:40 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Don't play Snigbert if ya want to keep your hair. My IJN strategy (I'm trying an experimental conservative one) has been thoroughly upset by a defiant Allied commitment to the ****epit known as Irau. Dead Allied sailors floating everywhere, yet the base gets stronger every day. I'm a little dazed at this point.:eek:

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 3
Irau - 7/22/2003 3:35:42 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Every PBEM game I've played that did not end in Japanese auto victory has revolved around the battle for Irau. Lunga follows Irau. (and the rest of the Solomons follow Lunga)
All my really big naval battles have been fought at Irau.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 4
Re: Irau - 7/22/2003 11:26:27 PM   
Veer


Posts: 2231
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Excuse me
Status: offline 		As IJN its simple ... keeping attacking untill you hit the blank wall. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK. The USN can't defend everywhere and won't be looking to attack anyway (so your rear bases should be safe enough). While losing 2 carriers (assuming one sunk and one back to Japan) is bad, but not all that. By the end of June you should have most of the combined fleet - use it.

_____________________________

In time of war the first casualty is truth. - Boake Carter

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 5
- 7/23/2003 5:48:28 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		I lost my 3 first IJN CV lately near Noumea in a PBEM. A raid on merchant shipping while US CV were off Australia. Wrong recon I guess as the CV turned to be there.

Losing CV hurts but losing the airgroups hurst more.

You can't stay on the defensive with IJN. Wait for more carriers and then continue to attack. But wait for a big carrier fleet, don't try any raid with your first 2 carriers.

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 6
Continue to Attack - 7/23/2003 9:01:53 PM   
joliverlay

 

Posts: 635
Joined: 1/28/2003
Status: offline 		OK. Its Mid May.

I've lost both big CVs. The strikes from his aircraft relocated to land bases nailed me on the way home. The aircrews are gone as well. The one thing I've learned is that no matter what the IJN player can do to me when I'm the American.....I can't duplicate it as the IJN player.

As the american I refuse combat and retreat almost to new zeland engaging the 2 IJN CVs with my 2 CVs only after attrition with LBA from Austrialia and then Nemoa. Finally I attack and get creamed. OK I figure that if I suprise the american at Nemoa with fresh crews as IJN while my APs unload at PM, I can kill his CVs. After all, I've not frittered my assest away on raids or LBA.

BUT NO. I CANT WIN A FIGHTING WITHDRAWL AS AMERICAN OR A SUPRISE ATTACK AS JAPANESE.

In other words whichever side I'm playing should expect disaster. Now that I've figured that out I will be a better Allied commander......and only play IJN when I have to. NEVER Attack without material superiority and defend without it only when you have to.

This game is so much like real life it is frightening.

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 7
- 7/23/2003 9:26:34 PM   
Mike_B20

 

Posts: 389
Joined: 2/13/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I haven't tried playing as IJN in PBEM yet but I can tell you that the strategy hardest to meet in my experience as allies is the monster CV fleets the IJN can launch by the end of June.

Even if the allies get lucky and manage to damage or sink the first three IJN carriers, that huge armada of carriers is difficult... but if the IJN player manages to keep those first three carriers intact the ten or eleven carriers they can then sortie in July is virtually unstoppable.
They don't just damage ships or taskforces...they sink them outright, and strangely the damage done by allied AA fire seems to decrease when faced by massive airstrikes.
They are juggernaughts that flatten everything in their way.

_____________________________

Never give up, never surrender

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 8
- 7/23/2003 9:44:09 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]I haven't tried playing as IJN in PBEM yet but I can tell you that the strategy hardest to meet in my experience as allies is the monster CV fleets the IJN can launch by the end of June.

Even if the allies get lucky and manage to damage or sink the first three IJN carriers, that huge armada of carriers is difficult... but if the IJN player manages to keep those first three carriers intact the ten or eleven carriers they can then sortie in July is virtually unstoppable.
They don't just damage ships or taskforces...they sink them outright, and strangely the damage done by allied AA fire seems to decrease when faced by massive airstrikes.
They are juggernaughts that flatten everything in their way. [/B][/QUOTE]

Monster fleet of CVs? Right!:rolleyes: All I ever get as reinforcements as IJN (2 games) seem to be MLs, APs, slow BBs etc. Five IJN CVs can't take on four USN CVs as the durability of the USN bombers allows high CAP percentages over USN CVs. Result...IJN CVs get plastered while USN CVs might have to fire AA at a few surviving IJN bombers which manage to get through CAP. A strike by one squadron of Marine SBDs managed to break through the CAP over my IJN CVs and plant a bomb on Ryujo. One can just imagine what four CV airgroups can do. It is now September in scen 17. If I don't get at least two more IJN CVs, I won't be able to break Irau.

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 9
- 7/23/2003 9:55:50 PM   
Mike_B20

 

Posts: 389
Joined: 2/13/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Well that's strange.
In all my scenario 17 PBEM games so far the IJN has at least 10 carriers available by July 42 and it's been tough as hell for the allies even if they manage to sink a few early.

_____________________________

Never give up, never surrender

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 10
- 7/24/2003 2:32:42 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		[B]A strike by one squadron of Marine SBDs managed to break through the CAP over my IJN CVs and plant a bomb on Ryujo. One can just imagine what four CV airgroups can do. It is now September in scen 17. If I don't get at least two more IJN CVs, I won't be able to break Irau.[/B]

Oh man, that's tough. I feel awful about that. Hope things work out okay for you. :)

[B]In all my scenario 17 PBEM games so far the IJN has at least 10 carriers available by July 42 and it's been tough as hell for the allies even if they manage to sink a few early.[/B]

Did you increase committment levels? If you play at 100% you wont get that many carriers, in most cases.

_____________________________

"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan

"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket

"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 11
- 7/24/2003 2:58:13 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B][B]A strike by one squadron of Marine SBDs managed to break through the CAP over my IJN CVs and plant a bomb on Ryujo. One can just imagine what four CV airgroups can do. It is now September in scen 17. If I don't get at least two more IJN CVs, I won't be able to break Irau.[/B]

Oh man, that's tough. I feel awful about that. Hope things work out okay for you. :)

[B]In all my scenario 17 PBEM games so far the IJN has at least 10 carriers available by July 42 and it's been tough as hell for the allies even if they manage to sink a few early.[/B]

Did you increase committment levels? If you play at 100% you wont get that many carriers, in most cases. [/B][/QUOTE]

I can tell you really feel bad for me in our game, Matt! :D :D :D

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 12
- 7/24/2003 8:49:35 AM   
Mike_B20

 

Posts: 389
Joined: 2/13/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B][B]A strike by one squadron of Marine SBDs managed to break through the CAP over my IJN CVs and plant a bomb on Ryujo. One can just imagine what four CV airgroups can do. It is now September in scen 17. If I don't get at least two more IJN CVs, I won't be able to break Irau.[/B]

Oh man, that's tough. I feel awful about that. Hope things work out okay for you. :)

[B]In all my scenario 17 PBEM games so far the IJN has at least 10 carriers available by July 42 and it's been tough as hell for the allies even if they manage to sink a few early.[/B]

Did you increase committment levels? If you play at 100% you wont get that many carriers, in most cases. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, I've had various commitment levels for IJN from 120% up to 200% (my opponent surprised me with that one...thought we were playing at 140% for IJN) but even the 120% commitment level for IJN game my opponent had 10 CV's available by early July.
Maybe he was just lucky.

_____________________________

Never give up, never surrender

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 13
More Help Needed - 7/31/2003 4:09:59 AM   
joliverlay

 

Posts: 635
Joined: 1/28/2003
Status: offline 		As noted earlier I lost the first two IJN CVs, but took PM very quickly (1st two weeks).

Ive been tempted again. Luganville and Esp. Santo were ungarrisoned so I raced down to take both by early June. Unfortunately I only had 2CVs in one task force and 3CVLs in the other. I waited one hex outside his range...but the CV task force reacted 1 hex. I launched 97 bombers and some fighters but only hit is DD escorting force (react to carriers but launch against a DD task force). Anway he got Kaga (or Akagi?) but I now have both bases.

I'm down by 3CVs. He has 2CVs under repair so will have 4 CVs for a while. I'm tempted to pour everything into Luganville regardless of losses and hold like hades until January 1.

What do you think? :eek:

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 14
- 7/31/2003 4:16:55 AM   
Snigbert

 

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline 		[B]What do you think? [/B]

Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid. -Goethe

_____________________________

"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan

"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket

"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 15
Im Getting Sick of This - 7/31/2003 4:52:32 AM   
joliverlay

 

Posts: 635
Joined: 1/28/2003
Status: offline 		I was bold.

I attacked again 1 CV, 3CVL, and a base with 40 aircraft 4 hexes away. ONCE AGAIN I ATTACK HIS ESCORTING DDS AND IGNORE THREE CVS WHILE HE BLASTS 2 OF MY CVLS.

My xxxxxxxing IJN pilots cannot do anything.

Now im down 3CVs 2CVLs.

after the last few turns.....where my land and naval air only attack the surface task force escorting the CVs (DDs only) but his planes happly attack me....IM just sick.

Don't say I'm avoiding his CVs because of CAP....I'm fighting his cap in the same hex. I just keep attacking the wrong TF.


IM SICK OF THIS GAME.

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 16
- 7/31/2003 10:36:18 AM   
Mike_B20

 

Posts: 389
Joined: 2/13/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		The only thing I could suggest is you should have your UV CD exorcised.
You seem to have picked up a bad copy.

_____________________________

Never give up, never surrender

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 17
- 8/4/2003 4:54:10 PM   
Veer


Posts: 2231
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Excuse me
Status: offline 		I would say you're screwed.
Your best bet now on would be to concentrate on defense. I doubt you can hold Luganville with double supply till Jan 43.
Forget advancing and play a Yahara type strategy and hope your opponent makes a mistake - he already made one, leaving Luganville undefended. Maybe you're BBs will get lucky and tangle with his troop transports off Lunga. You never know....

_____________________________

In time of war the first casualty is truth. - Boake Carter

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 18
real life - 8/6/2003 5:02:24 AM   
herbieh

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 8/30/2002
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Somebody said how this game is so like real life its scary, and I agree.
Ive got an opponent who must be going nuts, scene 19, he goes CV on CV as the yanks , classic coral sea battle, and gets creamed.
Next game, classic coral sea battle, plays as the Japs, sure to win, no, gets really creamed.

You cant assume anything in this game.
LUCK DOES PLAY A HUGE PART

Anyone following wobblies and my AAR will see that just as in real life,
: the best laid plans can go to poo if the airstrike dont go through....:D
The key to a good game when that happens is to say, buggar, have a beer, and then adpt and overcome and fight on
And hope your luck turns.
Those who quit too early are only short changing themselves of potential fun down the track

Battle on boys.:cool:

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 19
Re: Im Getting Sick of This - 8/13/2003 6:57:58 PM   
ctid98


Posts: 146
Joined: 6/19/2003
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by joliverlay
[B]I was bold.

I attacked again 1 CV, 3CVL, and a base with 40 aircraft 4 hexes away. ONCE AGAIN I ATTACK HIS ESCORTING DDS AND IGNORE THREE CVS WHILE HE BLASTS 2 OF MY CVLS.

IM SICK OF THIS GAME. [/B][/QUOTE]

Same thing happened in my game, except I was the allies, about 100+ dive & torpedo bombers hit my DD escort squadron instead of my 6 carriers. To be honest I was disappointed they didn't go for the carriers as they were unescorted and I had about 80 wildcats up!!! Them's the breaks though.

In the end I had Hornet and Yorktown with 50+ system damage and heading back to port with no damage to my other carriers, he wasn't so lucky though 2 fleet and one light carrier down to Davey Jone's Locker!!! I'm pretty sure the rest of his carriers, maybe 3 or 4 more, all took heavy damage and I hope more reports of sinkings come in. Its Aug 42 and things are looking very bright....:D

_____________________________

---------------------
Tora! Tora! Tora!

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 20
- 8/14/2003 2:15:46 AM   
estaban

 

Posts: 235
Joined: 9/20/2002
Status: offline 		Yep, time to dig in if you have lost 5 CVs. Get as many of your damaged CVs (30%+ sys damage) back to Japan while keeping the air wings on the map. With some luck, you might get the Hiyo and one or two CVEs so you have a reasonable CV force to keep the allied player honest.

Then start digging in on Lunga, Gili, and PM. Also, develop the airbase at Dobadura as rapidly as possible. Place a LOT of base forces there, so you get at least 250 air support squads there. Move an air fleet HQ and a couple flak units there. Dobadura is the key to holding New Guinea. With the ability to launch 400 aircraft from the base in one shot, it makes any allied attempt at a landing in New Guinea painful to contemplate.

He can't use long range air cover for his invasion TFs really, because of the distance. So he has to commit his carriers to escort the transports. Even then, 200+ fighters flying escort from Dobudura for 200+ bombers of various kinds is going to probably make him think that risking his carriers is not worth it, so he will call off the whole invasion of New Guinea. Also, use Dobadura to bomb/fighter sweep Dobadura and Townsville occasionally, to keep his bombing of New Guinea down and to force him to commit resupply convoys to those bases, which you can also attack from Dobadura.

Then you have to worry about Lunga and Irau, which is the way he will probably choose to come at you with New Guinea closed down.

With luck (which you will need at this point since your carriers are so badly attrited) you will be able to slow the allied advance to the point that you can win the game on points on New Year's Eve, 1943.

Good Luck!!

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 21
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