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Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/15/2020 2:33:22 PM

Flaviusx

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This game is advanced enough to start posting on. France surrendered at the beginning of August. I managed to get an extra turn here by retaking Paris in mid July on a very lucky 1-2 attack that forced a retreat. Didn't even know that was possible, tbh. The Germans got 1 cold turn during the winter and took out the Dutch that way, Belgium fell in May, and then it was a delaying game. The BEF committed 1 inf corps, 2 mech corps, 1 arm corps and 1 HQ, and I got it all away but not without taking a few knocks. German losses moderate, no units destroyed, a very well managed Western campaign by Battlevonwar. He invaded Greece. I just knocked out Vichy Syria and have a mech corps marching to Baghdad. Now I have to hunker down in the ME until he is committed to Barbarossa.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/15/2020 2:38:20 PM

Flaviusx

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Forces

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/15/2020 2:42:41 PM

Flaviusx

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Losses

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/15/2020 3:45:38 PM

MagicMissile

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Yay an AAR I can read

.

Comparing sub losses in my two games with ComadrejaKorp at approximately the same time the numbers were

Merchants 57 and 54 lost. Escorts 5 and 6 lost and Sublosses is not exact because some surfacelosses there as well but I think in the range 28-33 in both games so seems fairly similar. So dont get complacent it might get a whole lot worse

So he took out the Netherlands in the Cold turn and let the allies advance into Belgium? Looking at Belgium losses it seems they fought a lot.

I also note how low the airlosses are compared to what we have seen before.

Good luck!

/MM

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/15/2020 4:00:14 PM

Flaviusx

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I got good value out of the Belgians, heh. But taking out the Dutch early if possible makes sense and indeed it is a lot easier to steamroll Belgium once the weather clears than having to do both at once. I think I might have been able to last another turn or two longer otherwise.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/15/2020 9:14:24 PM

Flaviusx

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Standoff in the ME continues. The victorious Mech corps returns from newly liberated Iraq and joins the growing Commonwealth garrison in Egypt.

I am wondering how he is supplying such large forces out of Tobruk. He's moved some stuff east, but a lot remains in the West at well. His intentions remain unclear. He could go in any direction and I have to be careful about the UK proper.

Sub war continues to go well and I am just short of 40 escorts now. Now that both the North and South atlantic lanes are well covered by ASW groups and escorts his subs aren't getting any free shots and are having problems sustaining themselves. But he is just running 3 subs near as I can tell. The real test comes if he increases that. This is where it is a guessing game. If he doesn't build any more subs, the BoA is over and I end up wasting a lot of resources. But if he builds up to 9 or 12 subs and makes a go of it, I will need what I've laid down, including the US stuff.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/15/2020 11:04:26 PM

Flaviusx

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He forgot to garrison Metz the following turn and a partisan unit popped up nearby and took it.

A full strength panzer corps and...a paratrooper arrive next to Metz. Hmmm. What are *they* doing in France? I had an armor corps en route to Egypt to join the party there and instead diverted it right back to the UK. The garrison in Egypt is pretty formidable and we are just staring at each other. Every port in Palestine and Syria has a full strength corps in addition. The ME can take care of itself. I think I need to beef up Mother England. A mech corps is placed in the queue and I am going to spam out a bunch of infantry over the winter besides that and some AA. I'm dialing down escort production in the UK over the winter and focusing on ground troops at home. There is plenty out there already for the time being and the Canadians can supplement that plus what is already in the queue.

I haven't seen anything new going East. It is looking like he wants to try to pummel Britain in 41.

Probably should send some of the RN back to England, too. I have a heavy naval surface combat presence in the Eastern Med, more than is necessary given the strong garrisons.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/15/2020 11:05:08 PM >

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/16/2020 6:35:58 AM

Flaviusx

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Update Jan 1941. The Middle East staring contest continues. Neither side has moved for months.

France is now being occupied by a gaggle of Axis minors, and there is but a single air unit, covering the sub port in Bordeaux. The earlier invasion scare is off. But for the sake of insurance I'm pumping out single infantry divisions each turn, along with an escort, and either saving the rest or using it to repair/upgrade. I may eventually send off another infantry corps to the Middle East, but am holding the two mobile corps at home for future operations elsewhere. Thinking tentatively North Africa, once the Americans come in and in conjunction with them. I don't even think I will do anything in North Africa before then. A meeting engagement in the desert will just eat up precious production that might be better be used in the Soviet Union. So long as I hold my positions now until the Americans arrive I'm fine.

The Germans have no less than 3 air units in North Africa, along with 4-5 units and some Italians. Those are units that aren't fighting in the Soviet Union.

Is Barbarossa a go? I am thinking now probably yes. The Germans are building up in the east finally, although not as much as I'd think they should be. He must have a whole bunch of stuff in the queue still. There is an Italian contingent in Hungary, and a bunch of Germans just showed up in Romania. When combined with the lack of air cover in France, Sea Lion appears to be off.

The sub war continue to favor me and I have enough escorts to cover the South Atlantic, the North Atlantic and also the Africa convoy and his subs keep taking dings at a very favorable ratio. I've lost 5 escorts total so far and have about 40 on map now, plus plenty more in the queue, not including the USA which has more coming.

He's added some subs, finally. A second group is steaming across the Atlantic while 3 others are trying to get something going in the South Atlantic/Africa. This also lessens my Sea Lion fears. Germany doesn't have a lot of spare shipyards and it is hard for them to build subs and enough amphibious landing ability to matter.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/16/2020 6:39:09 AM >

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/16/2020 1:26:08 PM

Flaviusx

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Barbarossa gathers...

Trying a few things differently here as the Sovs. Weak front line up north, which I don't like doing because it encourages April invasions, but let's see how that goes.

I put virtually all the armor down south. I want to hold the Dnepr as long as possible and that is only possible with the Soviet armor. In the center I am relying on depth, terrain, and reinforcements arriving at the Smolensk gap and by Leningrad.

Not shown: forward defense in Finland. This even includes 4 (weak) mech corps. Not planning on staying there, will retreat 2 inf corps and 1 mech corps through Leningrad. The other 3 mech corps will cover the Karelian backdoor. Maybe they'll get some experience up here defending against the Finns. Did not disband any mech this time around, either.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/16/2020 1:29:43 PM

Flaviusx

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The only thing I disbanded at all were 5 of the 6 bombers. I kept one in the Black Sea to fly naval interdiction if needed. The fighters have all converted to fighter bombers for the extra range. And I'm planning on using those mostly in the south to take shots at the AGS mech and maybe lower their effectiveness a bit. They won't be flying intercepts, so they are not on full support, just manual strafing runs on my own turn. Fighter bombers are kind of interesting now.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/16/2020 4:12:34 PM

MagicMissile

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Will be interesting how the Soviet setup will work out.

As for Soviet airforce I have kept them lately. In my game now with ComadrejaKorp Soviet xp is still omly 37% in March 43
so makes me think if it is worth keeping.

With the US I have been researching Escort tech and Fighter bomber with some kind of idea that if you win total air superiority one could switch from escort to fighterbomber but havent had the chance to try it in practice. But I agree I like the fighterbomber they are cool now before they were not

.

/MM

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/16/2020 4:39:22 PM

Flaviusx

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Heh, I had to adjust it a bit this last turn. 3 Panzer corps in Romania, and some Italian armor in Hungary showed up in my intel.

I'm repositioning my armor so that it is defending on the Pruth. And some of this is rough terrain. He cannot get to it with his infantry on the first turn of attack, so if he wants to butt heads with my armor there, okay, let's roll. But I'm saving the really primo stuff for Kiev and the nearby area, not sending that forward. 3 armor corps plus 2 good mech corps.

I also have Konev commanding the nearby HQ.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/16/2020 4:42:56 PM >

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/16/2020 4:41:48 PM

Flaviusx

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I like fighter bombers for the UK and the Sovs right now. The US I still think is best suited for escort fighter research and I'm ignoring the other techs. (Even they have their limits.)

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/17/2020 12:38:59 AM

Flaviusx

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April 11. Barbarossa build up continues. There are 7 Axis mobile units in the south including one Italian, and I make some adjustments.

Heavy naval action in the Eastern Med. The Regia Marina sortied out in its entirety including the subs. He went out there during heavy rains and I forgot this renders my airpower helpless. Lost about half the UK surface naval group patrolling the waters as the subs jumped them and they had no patrol groups protecting them. They did have cruisers, but they weren't enough. The Italians took heavy losses in return but only lost a single patrol group. The weather cleared up again going into April and my airpower took some shots at the subs, inflicting 3 hits. I am sending reinforcements to the Med, more air, more surface ships, and one of my precious carrier task forces. Ugghh. I did not want to send any carriers down there yet.

I judge I can afford this commitment because the sub war is going pretty well. I've lost two more escorts, total of seven, but the Kriegsmarine is taking hits in return and losing practically as many sub factors as I am losing merchants. I am also a month away from convoy tech 42, British science to the rescue.

I note he has stripped Germany of flak and aircover and did some light bombing there with the RAF still based in England. Fighter bombers and tac air, not great for this job, but these are free shots.

I also bit the bullet and managed to scrounge up enough production over the quiet winter to put in an actual strategic bomber in the queue, due to arrive in August. 440 production. Ouch. But the Luftwaffe and the flak are spread thin and this will keep him honest. If Germany reacts to this, I can always put the bomber on sub duty.

The British economy is now over 200/turn with LL kicking in and between that and the quiet 1940-41 winter Britain can afford to splurge a bit.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/17/2020 12:41:28 AM >

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/17/2020 2:44:12 AM

Flaviusx

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April 25. Cold weather in the southern USSR and heavy rains and frost further north. The German launches Barbarossa early. Limited gains up north for obvious reasons.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/17/2020 2:48:23 AM

Flaviusx

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Down south the panzers smash more or less every rifle corps they can get to. They leave the mech untouched and these retreat in good order towards the Dnepr.

Soviet scientists reached 42 assault tech this turn, nice timing. 8 brand new rifle armies are put into the queue. The British pledge lend lease, 50 production per turn, but getting it through the gauntlet will be difficult. I have escorts to spare, but the Kreigsmarine has surface units based in Norway that can scatter escorts. The Royal Navy is dispatching a surface action group of its own to contest these waters, but the logistics are challenging to say the least. For the moment the Royal Navy is not willing to commit a carrier group here after having sent 1 to the Med, but this may change depending on circumstances.

Britain and the Soviets jointly declare war on Persia.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/17/2020 2:49:58 AM

Flaviusx

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WTB mud in May.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) - 12/17/2020 4:36:55 AM

Flaviusx

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I got a half loaf: mud up north and more clear in the south. I will take that half loaf. Maybe I can get another half loaf before June...

8 more rifle corps shattered, but nothing vital. I only got 4 new armies this turn...not nearly enough. The Smolensk gap is not covered, partly because mud impeded movement. OTOH, the Germans haven't taken Minsk yet. I might have one more turn to try to plug this gap.

I disbanded about a half dozen rifle corps that could not get away to decent positions but also started not adjacent to the Germans and were eligible. The mud helped here some. Between that and new production 3 more 42 rifle armies go into the queue. That's 11 total so far, but I suspect from here on forward I can only build 1 a turn.

The British convoy got through almost intact. The Bismark task force only sank a couple of merchants. The Kriegsmarine is heavily committed in the Baltic right now trying to chase down the Soviet Navy. So I'll have a little bit of time here before they can concentrate on convoy raids.

All quiet on the med front. No subs, either. They must be repairing.

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< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/17/2020 4:37:06 AM >

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/18/2020 11:56:42 PM

Flaviusx

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Resigned 8/31/41.

I need to come up with a different plan for dealing with these early German Barbarossas.

Congratulations to Battlevonwar, well played.

On the plus side, I think I've got a good handle on the new BoA.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 12:46:37 AM

ago1000

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Thanks for doing this Flaviusx.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 3:05:29 AM

battlevonwar

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I utilized my new Axis Strat, I do not think it can be beat easily Flaviusx, you did well vs it. I believe that it is a strategy will be gamebreaking for the Allies to deal with.(I was inspired by MagicMissile but added some of my own ideas in) Though someone can try to counter it? Not sure how... I can put my AAR in a bit I need to go through my Screenshots though if people are interested in seeing or we can let it remain a secret until? GG

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 12/19/2020 3:09:13 AM >

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 3:18:18 AM

Flaviusx

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The weather definitely was not helpful.

I'm not sure how the Soviets ride out a campaign that starts as early as the second half of April. That is two full months more than historical. Plus the calendar worked in such a way that my initial wave of builds took an extra turn to arrive -- my first builds were only available on the July 4 turn. An eternity considering that war started on April 25.

By the time they arrived you were already knocking on Moscow's door. They popped up right as you got next to Kalinin.

Rifle corps will not slow down a panzer ball. Honestly wondering if the Sovs should simply build a bunch of mountain corps and maybe not even bother throwing up an ant screen. Rather, put them in the rear and disband them after war breaks out so you can feed the production into rifle armies.

I thought you were sloppy with your rear area security and for a moment there I thought maybe I could crash your entire supply situation with partisans and raids but nope. Partisans just aren't what they used to be and can almost be ignored now.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 3:22:19 AM

Flaviusx

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The one mistake I think I made was quitting the Dnepr maybe 1 turn too early. But would that have even mattered? My fear was that you'd manage to cross and surround my armor if I stuck around there any further. Maybe I should have forced you to try an opposed crossing. But you had so much mech down south that it was way risky too do this.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 4:14:09 AM

battlevonwar

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Flaviusx,

I looked at your build I think that there were too many mechs in it. Not enough rubbish at the Soviet Border... I'd of probably stacked 2-3 deep of cheap Rifle Kamikazes to sap some of my initial thrust(but that could be a waste) I have had issues with them but they give the Germans a lot of XP for nothing.

You did fine vs me, the River defenses were probably something you could of held for a turn or 2 more. Maybe 3, going behind me was of no use I utilized lots of extra Mechs for that plan this time around. I never really even had a chance to utilize my air at all and air is becoming without bottlenecks a little bit useless with a strategy like this. I might of just disbanded some of your air to put into more land units? Which I think you may have done...

Also you needed a Strong Line from Leningrad-Kalinin down to Rostov(rivers) you needed it by the point where I was at. The weather is an advantage people DOW pe-June or May and it gives them supply and space to spread out. Hard for the Russians to cope with unless you know precisely what you're doing. Why the trash front units may have been worth it. Hard to kill them all in bad weather. I got some good weather though for most of the time(you got a bad roll there)

You also faced my new Massive Build Strategy and no more variation which focuses primarily on 1 task France and the Soviet Union. Neither can hold up against it unless perhaps the British are willing to sacrifice more for France? That may have helped a little. Also if the British are willing to draw off at least 1 or 2 more Panzers in 1941 elsewhere.

That still should not stop my strategy(cheap rifle corp may be the only defense? let MM chime int?)... I have seen a Mnt Corp strat before with the Russians but I don't think that will work either. I think it's better than the mechs though. You need a lot of junk units all over the place and if the Axis are getting such good early weather I don't know there is a counter?

See my game vs MM as the Russians were utterly trashed. But I had even more armor and air than he did.

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 12/19/2020 4:17:53 AM >

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 4:27:28 AM

Flaviusx

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I built no mech or armor at all. This was just the stuff they started with. In retrospect I wish I had disbanded about half it, point in fact.

I had thought I could fall back on those lines you point out. But the weather prevented me from doing this. Remember that up north was mud for like 3 turns in a row, which impeded my own movement as much as yours. I would rather it had been mud in the south and clear up north, tbh.

I did disband all my bombers and just kept the fighters.

Rifle corps spam did not help here and that is all I built and lots of them.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/19/2020 4:28:33 AM >

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 4:56:15 AM

battlevonwar

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The weather then(I would of done away with the Mechs they're about as strong as weak Mnt Corp) and the Micro Build is what got you.

I did everything in my power to not waste 1 PP and I could of done a better job. My damage Cruiser and destroyer, botched invasion of Norway...Some other issues I had in my build along the way I think I could of added another 2 Mechs!

I think also the RAF has to fight in France despite the losses you didn't do that. I would... And sacrifice several Inf Corp there if necessary. See you are looking at the fact the UK has to actually sap Germany pre-Barbarossa. If not then for most of 1941 they are not of much use.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 9:22:11 AM

Flaviusx

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Okay, I'll try this stuff out. Care for a rematch?

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 10:17:39 AM

MagicMissile

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Yes a rematch more AARs

.

Some random thoughts:

Yes building the Soviet inf armies is annoying as they take 5 turns to arrive and dont get active until turn 6 which is a looong time

.

In general these strategic WW2 games I think always had this problem that the Axis usually come earlier and they come with more than historical (including a lot of italians) and the Soviets are not given the tools to resist. I think the Soviets maybe could use a small buff. It is as I have written before that not only do you have to survive 1941 you have to survive in pretty good shape otherwise 1942 might well be the killer year.

My first impression when I looked on the screenshot was that the German army did not look all that big. How big were the German and Soviet army when the war started? How many axis mech units were there?

The weather is of course very important in April and May it can make a huge difference.

I do not believe in mtn corps strat. I think they lack artillery which makes them retreat easier (if I understand it correctly). I still believe inf corps is the way to go. I also think keeping the mech corps but possibly disband some air seems right.

I am also a bit reluctant coming to the idea that the British probably have to commit quite a lot to France it probably can help the Soviets. I just dont like it

. If you dont commit to France then I think the UK have to try to be active with invasions like ComadrejaKorp did againt me. It does at least draw some resources from the east. That is if UK have any money to buy LC

.

Thanks for the AAR

/MM

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 11:02:48 AM

Flaviusx

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The German army was not particularly large as such but it had plenty of what really mattered: armor. And that includes Italian armor. Mostly it is about timing. This same campaign, had it started in June 22 as historical, would've ended with very nearly historical lines. Clear weather, particularly in the south, is just devastating this early.

The problem is it started in on April 25 and the Axis has two more months to rampage.

It turns out that the Axis doesn't need much infantry in Russia at all. Supply lines? Partisans? Whatever. There was a point when I came close to shutting down all his rail lines, but no cigar.

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RE: Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis) Game Ended - 12/19/2020 11:08:39 AM

Flaviusx

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I'm guessing he had 12-14 mobile corps in the Soviet Union, including Axis minors. What was lacking was infantry. Had things ever slowed down and gotten past the summer, this lack of infantry to cover the line would've become a problem.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/19/2020 11:10:27 AM >

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