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carrier aircraft - 12/19/2020 11:20:53 AM

boldairade

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what circumstances have to exist for carrier based aircraft to defend a surface fleet?

it seem whenever i try to bomb a fleet, i run into a swarm of supermarine spit fires.

but the two times as the allies i moved massed carriers into any area where land based aircraft, the carriers immediately go to the bottom of the ocean(and effectively end the game).

what gives?

Post #: 1

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/19/2020 1:29:07 PM

malkarma

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USA carriers had between 90-110 planes, Uk ones less. Land based aircraft units can have between 200-400 planes. So run close to a nest of land based air units can be really painful.

(in reply to boldairade)

Post #: 2

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/19/2020 1:37:03 PM

boldairade

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i understand.

but in the battle log, i'm seeing zero interception attempts by the carrier aircraft. none.

but i'm sure in the past, when i've attempted to bomb surface groups with carriers, there have been interceptions.

that's why i massed them together.

yet...nada

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Post #: 3

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/19/2020 2:54:59 PM

AlvaroSousa

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You have a CV group with 10 air strength effectively in which only 1/3rd of those are air sups facing twice as many aircraft from land based air.

You are defending with 3 air sups vs 13 bomber and 7 air sup points... per land based air counter.

Land based air destroys ships. Thus why the USA needed 17 experienced CVs in the Philippines in 1944 vs 800 poorly Japanese planes.
That's ~85 strength vs ~55 strength of land based air.

But I am checking this weekend on CVs

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Post #: 4

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/19/2020 4:45:35 PM

ncc1701e

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Well the F6F Hellcat was fearless against the A6M Zero.

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RE: carrier aircraft - 12/19/2020 5:02:47 PM

malkarma

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And in the Marianas, the land based aircrafts proved the inneficiency against the USA CV crews.

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Post #: 6

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 9:24:47 AM

OxfordGuy3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boldairade

i understand.

but in the battle log, i'm seeing zero interception attempts by the carrier aircraft. none.

but i'm sure in the past, when i've attempted to bomb surface groups with carriers, there have been interceptions.

that's why i massed them together.

yet...nada

Do you mean that your carriers' fighter aircraft are not intercepting axis fighters that are intercepting your carriers' aircraft on bombing missions?

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Post #: 7

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 9:56:37 AM

boldairade

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im not saying the carrier fighters should be more effective vs land based air craft

i'm saying, i don't see ANY sorties by the carriers' fighters to protect them.

it appears land based bombers get no interception when attacking carrier, even though i have multiple carriers stacked together

< Message edited by boldairade -- 12/20/2020 10:02:08 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 10:40:51 AM

boldairade

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my opponent brings up a good point:

is it possible if i had them in raider mode that they wouldn't have sent up interceptors?

i'm honestly not sure if i did or didn't have them in raider mode. but it would make some sense if i did.

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Post #: 9

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 3:48:23 PM

Cigar King

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quote:

is it possible if i had them in raider mode that they wouldn't have sent up interceptors?

Should this even matter. carriers always tried to have CAP and once radar was available certainly would have committed their ready reserve.

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Post #: 10

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 4:28:28 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Carrier air to air values are calculated in a bomber attack.

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Post #: 11

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 4:48:19 PM

Cigar King

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The carrier aircraft are unable to defend their ship?

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Post #: 12

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 6:01:29 PM

OxfordGuy3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Carrier air to air values are calculated in a bomber attack.

Can you elaborate? e.g.

1) When carriers make a bombing attack, do their own fighters provide escort and/or interception?

2) When the fleet that the carriers themselves are in is attacked, do their own fighters intercept the attacking bombers and/or defend in some other way?

3) If there is another allied fleet within range (e.g. a transport fleet) that is attacked by enemy bombers, will the fighters from your carrier try to intercept the bombers?

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Post #: 13

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 11:07:43 PM

sillyflower

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The historical answers are:
yes
yes
yes

but we all know that...................

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Post #: 14

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/20/2020 11:13:49 PM

Nirosi

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quote:

3) If there is another allied fleet within range (e.g. a transport fleet) that is attacked by enemy bombers, will the fighters from your carrier try to intercept the bombers?

Regarding this one, I was sure they did not. And I learned it the hard way. Unless it was a glitch...

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Post #: 15

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/21/2020 2:21:14 AM

AlvaroSousa

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Yes
Yes
No. CVs don't intercept or ground support, only strike.

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Post #: 16

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/21/2020 7:24:22 AM

OxfordGuy3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Yes
Yes
No. CVs don't intercept or ground support, only strike.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. So a CV's fighter planes basically just:

a) Escort the CV's own bombers (-only) on strike missions (which is they only type of mission that the latter fly)

b) Provide a CAP for the fleet that the CV is in (only)

So,if you want to protect transport ships, they will need to be in the same fleet ss your CV(S).

< Message edited by OxfordGuy3 -- 12/21/2020 7:25:29 AM >

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Post #: 17

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/21/2020 3:02:54 PM

AlvaroSousa

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That is correct. I will probably end up adding some flavor text to the CV combat so players get this. Funny enough this was just brought up in WPP Beta testing.

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Post #: 18

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/21/2020 3:54:02 PM

Cigar King

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Have you considered changing this? I was thinking perhaps a 1 hex intercept range. Enough to protect the beaches and adjoining hexes?

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Post #: 19

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/21/2020 7:25:31 PM

AlvaroSousa

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The deal is that if I do this the system gets overly complex. Then we see players baiting CV fleets to destroy them because players can't answer for all conditions. It was incredibly challenging to design a naval system that worked well when you don't have a chance to react on your turn and make decisions like more board games or RTS allow you to do.

There is no other naval system like this in a game like this that I know of.

BTW I solved the mystery of the CV losses.

The report was showing their A2A strength not their losses. So the looses are right, the numbers displayed are wrong.

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Post #: 20

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/21/2020 7:31:06 PM

OxfordGuy3

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I'm okay with how it is, I just wanted to be sure I understood how it works

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Post #: 21

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/21/2020 7:44:22 PM

Cigar King

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quote:

The deal is that if I do this the system gets overly complex. Then we see players baiting CV fleets to destroy them because players can't answer for all conditions. It was incredibly challenging to design a naval system that worked well when you don't have a chance to react on your turn and make decisions like more board games or RTS allow you to do.

Thanks. While I basically consider the naval war a sideshow in Europe, that won't be the case in the Pacific, and I'm not convinced the system will work well there. I guess time will tell.

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Post #: 22

RE: carrier aircraft - 12/21/2020 8:51:17 PM

AlvaroSousa

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It's working now and players are liking it.

WarPlan is an operational level game. Not a tactical combat simulator

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- Assault on Communism SC2
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- Map Image Importer SC3

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Post #: 23