Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Advanced Tactics Series >> Mods and Scenarios >> Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style)

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Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/17/2020 4:06:58 AM

ColRosenberger

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/11/2017
Status: offline

Hi! I wanted a way to generate A New Dawn random maps where you could just conquer any town and produce from it, without worrying about the population type. Here's what I came up with.

Master file download:
https://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=307

If you use this modified anewdawn3.at2 master file to generate your random game, every regime will start with a single town, and every other town on the map will be set to the Neutral people, allowing full production everywhere. This required Neutrals being people 0, every other people's number being shifted by one upwards. I have attempted to adapt all events to this including each people's secret tech, and crates - let me know if you see any people-related anomaly, I might've missed one.

Hopefully someone will find this fun! This was inspired by wanting to play a more Empire Deluxe-style random maps but with the latest rules such as TOEs, as well as by the classic Risk for Three scenario (you can also find a proper modernized non-random version of Risk for Three here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4880394 ).

Changelog:

Revision 0: Initial upload

Revision 1: Fixed Oil and Raw locations not producing

Revision 2: No more "Neutral Horses" in your production and other neutral units which took a TOE slot.

< Message edited by ColRosenberger -- 1/13/2021 10:01:16 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/20/2020 1:31:55 PM

LarryBurstyn

Posts: 76
Joined: 6/11/2019
Status: offline

Problem with game...Oil and Raw sources produce NOTHING.
Kinda hard to build things without oil and ore.

And in the resource/city area the allowed "people" has German as people 0.
Will re-download to see if I got a good copy.

< Message edited by LarryBurstyn -- 12/20/2020 1:34:37 PM >

(in reply to ColRosenberger)

Post #: 2

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/20/2020 7:19:41 PM

ColRosenberger

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/11/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryBurstyn

Problem with game...Oil and Raw sources produce NOTHING.
Kinda hard to build things without oil and ore.

Good catch. I had validated in the editor that everything was set to the right people, but there's an event at the beginning of the game that then sets oil and raw sites to people #8... so with the switch in position they were being set to African. The Africans didn't want to work for you

.

Sorry about that, clearly I didn't playtest my thing correctly. I've now uploaded a new version that fixes this and properly sets those resources to people #0 a.k.a. the new Neutrals. I don't know if it'll apply retroactively to an already started game though.

quote:

And in the resource/city area the allowed "people" has German as people 0.
Will re-download to see if I got a good copy.

EDIT: Ok, I see what you mean. In the Location Details tab of the detailed view for any terrain, Germans are still listed first. But that's because that list refers to PeopleGroup numbers, which are not the same as People. I didn't change PeopleGroup because that would've been a lot of extra work for apparently no benefit. With my current setup, Neutrals are indeed People 0, but they belong to PeopleGroup 8 just like before.

Those lists you pointed out are edited in LT -> LocTypes -> PeopleGroups in the editor BTW. It seems all values are set to True, making no difference between the various PeopleGroups and further suggesting that they don't need to be edited for my mod to work.

Events never seem to refer to PeopleGroup directly so I think things should be fine as-is. If another problem is found I'll consider investing the time to change all PeopleGroups and everything that refers to them.

< Message edited by ColRosenberger -- 12/22/2020 4:22:58 AM >

(in reply to LarryBurstyn)

Post #: 3

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/29/2020 12:38:05 PM

LarryBurstyn

Posts: 76
Joined: 6/11/2019
Status: offline

okay, this is unworkable.

Former Neutral Cities produce NEUTRAL troops...and resource hexes produce for the Neutral regime not my regime after being caputred.
In other words I get no oil or ore. And all the troops produced in the former neutral cities fight as neutral troops not as my regime's troops.
Built factories produce for building regime.

SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:
An event which changes captured resource hexes and neutral cities to the capturing regime people.

(in reply to ColRosenberger)

Post #: 4

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/29/2020 12:57:38 PM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Suggestion:

Redo. Start with German People, rename to universals (like in AT). Done.

:)

(in reply to LarryBurstyn)

Post #: 5

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/29/2020 12:59:34 PM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

EDIT: Ok, I see what you mean. In the Location Details tab of the detailed view for any terrain, Germans are still listed first. But that's because that list refers to PeopleGroup numbers, which are not the same as People. I didn't change PeopleGroup because that would've been a lot of extra work for apparently no benefit. With my current setup, Neutrals are indeed People 0, but they belong to PeopleGroup 8 just like before.

Those lists you pointed out are edited in LT -> LocTypes -> PeopleGroups in the editor BTW. It seems all values are set to True, making no difference between the various PeopleGroups and further suggesting that they don't need to be edited for my mod to work.

You also need to check that the ProdMod for each people is set to the same, if you want to continue down this road of Neutrals being your prefered people.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)

Post #: 6

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/30/2020 5:07:39 AM

ColRosenberger

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/11/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryBurstyn

okay, this is unworkable.

Former Neutral Cities produce NEUTRAL troops...and resource hexes produce for the Neutral regime not my regime after being caputred.
In other words I get no oil or ore. And all the troops produced in the former neutral cities fight as neutral troops not as my regime's troops.
Built factories produce for building regime.

SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:
An event which changes captured resource hexes and neutral cities to the capturing regime people.

I've just retested, and this is not my experience: things are working fine. I tested both with default options and with the single town start.
Oil and Raw add to my production total at the top of the screen when they become part of my territory, as expected.
For captured cities to produce, you must fulfill the following condition, which I haven't changed:
- Assign them an HQ
- Set some production (obviously)
- They start with zero infrastructure, you need to wait for the infrastructure to automatically repair.
And by the way there is no such thing as a "Neutral Regime", if you go to the strategic map you can see that the only regimes are the players/AI you would expect.

Proof in save from this test game, where you can see production such as Horses and Artillery trickle in from captured cities to my HQ: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gjbq4ut556hd2c2/NeutralTownsTest_DefaultSettings_ProductionAndResourcesWork_2.at2?dl=0

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Suggestion:

Redo. Start with German People, rename to universals (like in AT). Done.

:)

If you just stop there, one of the regimes in the random game might start as Universals. Meanwhile, the new Germans which presumably you'd put in slot 9 would not have their secret tech and would anyways never be selected as a regime for the random game. Among other things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz
You also need to check that the ProdMod for each people is set to the same, if you want to continue down this road of Neutrals being your prefered people.

I believe I've set these properly. I'd appreciate if you could take a look to confirm.

< Message edited by ColRosenberger -- 12/30/2020 5:15:42 AM >

(in reply to LarryBurstyn)

Post #: 7

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/30/2020 11:34:25 AM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Suggestion:

Redo. Start with German People, rename to universals (like in AT). Done.

:)

If you just stop there, one of the regimes in the random game might start as Universals. Meanwhile, the new Germans which presumably you'd put in slot 9 would not have their secret tech and would anyways never be selected as a regime for the random game. Among other things.

Sorry, I had a brainfart. Thought you were making a fixed scenario, not a random game. That's what I get for not looking at the TITLE before answering :(

(in reply to ColRosenberger)

Post #: 8

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/30/2020 1:38:39 PM

LarryBurstyn

Posts: 76
Joined: 6/11/2019
Status: offline

Take a look at your sample. Under HQ details you will see that the cities are producing units where the people are NEUTRAL not Chinese. That means that they fight differently than the Chinese peopled units--unless you changed the characteristics of them to fight at the same rate as the Chinese (or whatever people you have in the random game). This makes it harder to make TOE's because you cannot use peopled units mixed...Neutral Horse units cannot be combined with other peopled Horse units.

In my game the resource locations are producing for the German Regime which may or may not exist. How do get them to produce neutral resources that you can use? Will try again to see if I need to do something to make them produce for me.

EDITED>
Okay. Checked the game again. Resources produce for me--don't know why I was getting the other results in my other random games...You have changed the fighting so they fight the same as my peopled units. But they still cannot be mixed with my peopled units (Horse with Horse)...so TOE is harder. As they are still limited to 8 different SFT in a unit and each peopled unit is it's own SFT. So if you have SFT with Horse peopled by your people and neutrals they take up two slots of the possible 8 in a unit. Factories produce SFTs peopled by my people...while those same SFTs produced in (formally neutral) cities are peopled by neutrals. To make TOE's easier I will have to produce infantry in cities and everything else in Factories.

I looked at the people production mods and captured other people (NOT Neutrals) are different for different production lines...so if you capture an enemy city on one line you get 0 production, on another you might get full production, or half production. I don't remember the Fight For percentages.

< Message edited by LarryBurstyn -- 12/30/2020 2:27:43 PM >

(in reply to ernieschwitz)

Post #: 9

RE: Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style) - 12/31/2020 6:56:45 AM

ColRosenberger

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/11/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryBurstyn
Okay. Checked the game again. Resources produce for me--don't know why I was getting the other results in my other random games...You have changed the fighting so they fight the same as my peopled units. But they still cannot be mixed with my peopled units (Horse with Horse)...so TOE is harder. As they are still limited to 8 different SFT in a unit and each peopled unit is it's own SFT. So if you have SFT with Horse peopled by your people and neutrals they take up two slots of the possible 8 in a unit. Factories produce SFTs peopled by my people...while those same SFTs produced in (formally neutral) cities are peopled by neutrals. To make TOE's easier I will have to produce infantry in cities and everything else in Factories.

You're right, it is annoying. I hadn't noticed that produced units from captured towns didn't mix with units from your home town since I was always producing something different.

I've uploaded a new version to fix this (rev. 2). I've modified pre-existing event #21 "Get friendly people into conq. factories" to change the people of all locations you own at end of turn, instead of only a select few used by scenarios such as the Mercenary Post. This means that when your territory expands at the beginning of your turn to include some cities, they'll still show as neutral on that turn, but will change to your people when you press End Turn.
I've tested and I'm not getting any neutral units delivered to my HQ anymore.
A side-effect is that Oil and Raw locations will switch to your people instead of remaining Neutral like in the base game, but you're still getting the full production.

As last time, starting a new game is needed to see the changes.

Here's a save from the test: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cr8xjhmf3kivjjo/NeutralTownsTest_ChangePeopleOnCapture_01.at2?dl=0 - if you pass the turn you'll get Anglo-saxon horses this time - which as everybody knows are very different from Neutral horses.

Now that I think of it, this single event might be all I need to make this kind of random game work. No need to seed the whole map with neutrals if you replace the people of any location you conquer with your own. I'll think of the implications and probably upload a new simplified version that only does this.

< Message edited by ColRosenberger -- 1/13/2021 10:01:40 PM >

(in reply to LarryBurstyn)

Post #: 10

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Advanced Tactics Series >> Mods and Scenarios >> Random Game: Neutral Towns (Empire Deluxe/Risk-style)

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