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COVID 19 - What do you know?

 
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COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 2:22:10 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		I miss the exchange of information that we used to have here. We have a valuable asset in many of our forumites that have relevant things to say. I particularly enjoyed the reports from Italy, S. Korea and Spain, to mention some that took their own time to keep us up on developments and life in their countries. In the past, Covid threads have been closed due to political statements. I know many want to blame the situation on Red or Blue, but lets keep that part out of it so that Matrix can allow us to participate in some very useful exchanges of information. Please avoid quackery and stick to data/articles with references. Please, no charts on Positivity Rates, they are a waste of our time and space. Please
We know there a some here that have nothing intelligent to say, so please just ignore them rather than engage in pointless copying and recopying of all their pointless bickering banter to no end. Again - I beg you , and thanks for your participation during these 'trying times'
Post #: 1
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 2:23:00 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Recently a Vaccine for Covid-19 has been released on the public. It is interesting to witness the two sides of the issue, 'will take' or 'will not take'. Not the political or freedom aspect, but from the health aspect I am curious what others think.




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Post #: 2
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 2:23:22 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		I myself am not very interested in getting a vaccine. The proof of Effectiveness vs Side Effects is not encouraging to me. I'd rather stick with 'normal' solutions such as Vitamins and yes, Chicken Soup! Vitamin D, for example. Here is an hour long video chock-a-block full of data, studies and sources:

Vitamin D and COVID 19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 3
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 2:23:55 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		If you are not already taking a Vitamin D supplement, while I am not a doctor I suggest that you consider taking one. Even if you don't believe in it for yourself, at least for the possibility of reducing the strain on hospitals that we are currently experiencing around the world. 'Take a Vitamin, Save a Bed'. Of course, always consult your doctor before taking anything




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Post #: 4
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 2:24:34 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Pictured is an interesting tidbit. And I have violated my own request for Sourced Info only by accidentally cropping out the Source! Sorry about that. But I think it was the same article as the previous post.
For the local report, here in my area [Maryland, USA] they have recently introduced stricter public measures. For example, 25% occupancy for businesses, restaurants are only open for carry-out or curbside pick-up and must close by 10 p.m., and bars that are not restaurants are straight up closed




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Post #: 5
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 3:12:23 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Moderna's vaccine is now approved.

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 6
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 3:16:14 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Recently a Vaccine for Covid-19 has been released on the public. It is interesting to witness the two sides of the issue, 'will take' or 'will not take'. Not the political or freedom aspect, but from the health aspect I am curious what others think.



warspite1

If there is a vaccine and its had all the necessary and required sign-offs from the safety point of view then yes, of course I would have the vaccine. Same as I've had all the other vaccines I've been recommended to have during the course of my life. I (or in most cases my parents) did not say no to the those so I am not about to start saying no now, and frankly I don't understand why anyone wouldn't get the vaccine. But that's my personal opinion and each to their own.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 7
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 11:25:08 AM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Yes, I will be getting the vaccine. That or the Russian roulette: asymptomatic, mild case, 3 or 5 months stranded on an ICU or cemetery.

No thanks.

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

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Post #: 8
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 12:30:51 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I believe that the vaccines are still in the testing stage and this is the final test. There have been reports of allergic reactions after 10 minutes or so, so be aware of that and wait at least 20 minutes after being shot before you leave the place with emergency services available. There is no stated reason why, as other vaccinations ask about allergies to eggs but I don't know about these. I would not get the shot if emergency services were not available there. At least one person has been hospitalized due to the reaction from the Pfizer vaccine.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 9
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 12:49:49 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I find it interesting that we supposedly know enough about the pathology of this virus to develop vaccines, but we still do not know enough to develop effective treatments. Very odd.

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Post #: 10
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 12:58:33 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Different people react differently. Some require no treatment at all and may not even realize that they have had it while others die. The initial ventilator treatment for the most serious cases also caused problems when, for most of them anyway, supplemental oxygen would have been sufficient.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 11
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 1:17:29 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Well, I am not going to take the vaccine. Last flu vaccine I took almost killed me.

I already take Vitamin D, roughly 5k IU a day. It is great also if you have allergies. It boosts the immune system.
I have been drinking Tonic (Quinine) and Tart Cherry Juice (needed something to put the vodka in) both have good immune properties. I also take Zyrtec for allergies which does not hurt at all.

I am in the high risk category but have worked in and around the general public since this all started. One friend was tested and was positive. He said his experience was of a mild flu and did quarantine himself for the required fourteen days.

I've lived through the previous "pandemics" that were never as restrictive as this. At the risk of getting angry comments, I believe this is one of the most "over blown" things I have ever seen.

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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Post #: 12
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 1:31:11 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		The USA has 315K dead from Covid-19. You call that 'over blown'?

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Post #: 13
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 1:54:13 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The USA has 315K dead from Covid-19. You call that 'over blown'?


If someone has tested positive for Covid-19 and was run over by a truck then died, that would still be called a Covid-19 death by the CDC.

It has been documented that for the Covid-19 patients who are hospitalized, the hospitals were compensated three times as much than as for a regular patient. So the financial incentive is there to label as many hospitalized patients Covid-19 patients.

So how many people died because they did not receive the treatment that as needed? How many people now have severe health issues that they have to live with that could have been avoided?

I have been hospitalized in isolation. It was not fun for me nor fun for the staff who had to gown up completely along with a cap, mask, and slippers to see me so no one stepped in just to say "Hello, how are you doing today?"

I could probably design a fan/filter system to destroy this Covid-19 in the air.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 14
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 2:24:04 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		Due to the combination of my actual lifestyle and living in a reasonably small rural town, I have almost no experience of covid to actually work with.

I'm on a pension, so my finances are 'stable'.
I don't 'need' to go out, so 'lockdown' has a limited impact on me.
I don't have small children, so I am not stuck at home with them.
I'm used to being forced to be very strategic with my money, so I don't really have much to say about the lack of partying, travel, or recreational activities.

I wear a mask, mainly because it hardly really annoys me.
I will likely get the vaccine, but, I'm ok being the last in line.

I don't know anyone who has died, at all, for any reasons.
I don't know anyone that has tested positive.
I have a sister in law nurse and a local friend that works in daycare and one that works with seniors.
Covid is very real to them.

But so far, covid has only been the dominant news item trending on YouTube to me.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 15
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 3:04:10 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The USA has 315K dead from Covid-19. You call that 'over blown'?


If someone has tested positive for Covid-19 and was run over by a truck then died, that would still be called a Covid-19 death by the CDC.

It has been documented that for the Covid-19 patients who are hospitalized, the hospitals were compensated three times as much than as for a regular patient. So the financial incentive is there to label as many hospitalized patients Covid-19 patients.



That's been debunked. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

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Post #: 16
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 3:46:11 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The USA has 315K dead from Covid-19. You call that 'over blown'?


If someone has tested positive for Covid-19 and was run over by a truck then died, that would still be called a Covid-19 death by the CDC.

...

I could probably design a fan/filter system to destroy this Covid-19 in the air.


99.99% of the 315K who died from Covid-19 were not hit by cars. Covid-19 can (and does) aggravate existing conditions and cause people to die who otherwise would not have. This is normal practice in disease statistics. It would be wrong not to count them as Covid fatalities because they wouldn't have died without Covid-19.

I'm amazed by the combination of ignorance and arrogance in your last sentence. Or were you joking?

This thread is 2 posts from being locked, like previous Covid-19 threads...

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 17
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 4:01:25 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		OMG.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

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Post #: 18
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 4:33:26 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The USA has 315K dead from Covid-19. You call that 'over blown'?


If someone has tested positive for Covid-19 and was run over by a truck then died, that would still be called a Covid-19 death by the CDC.

...

I could probably design a fan/filter system to destroy this Covid-19 in the air.


99.99% of the 315K who died from Covid-19 were not hit by cars. Covid-19 can (and does) aggravate existing conditions and cause people to die who otherwise would not have. This is normal practice in disease statistics. It would be wrong not to count them as Covid fatalities because they wouldn't have died without Covid-19.

I'm amazed by the combination of ignorance and arrogance in your last sentence. Or were you joking?

This thread is 2 posts from being locked, like previous Covid-19 threads...



Why do you want to lock threads? Or are you using this to stifle and thus curtail discussions about items that you do not like? Are you a censor?

Shall I post a picture of my right foot after every post of yours?

How is my last sentence a combination of ignorance and arrogance? If you know something that I don't, state it. I am referring to knowledge that has been posted on the forums before.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 19
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 4:40:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The USA has 315K dead from Covid-19. You call that 'over blown'?


If someone has tested positive for Covid-19 and was run over by a truck then died, that would still be called a Covid-19 death by the CDC.

It has been documented that for the Covid-19 patients who are hospitalized, the hospitals were compensated three times as much than as for a regular patient. So the financial incentive is there to label as many hospitalized patients Covid-19 patients.



That's been debunked. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/


I distrust any fact check organization that has been paid by someone or something with/for an obvious political agenda.

I would rather trust a medical doctor (yes, he is in a state Senate as well) than someone who does not work in a hospital.

quote:

Jensen landed in the national spotlight after raising concerns that federal guidance could cause doctors to overcount COVID-19 cases and saying that there’s a financial incentive to inflating the numbers.

Senate Republican Majority Leader Paul Gazelka said Monday he supports Jensen, asserting in a prepared statement that the doctor “has proven to be right.” Gazelka, of East Gull Lake, noted a USA Today article verifying that hospitals get more money if Medicare patients are diagnosed with COVID-19 and on ventilators.


https://www.startribune.com/sen-scott-jensen-says-complaints-about-covid-19-comments-may-be-political/571650782/

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 20
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 7:18:17 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The USA has 315K dead from Covid-19. You call that 'over blown'?


Yes, I do.
We are not supposed to go down statistical rabbit holes but, you may want to study previous pandemics and their deaths based on a percentage of the population?

And, maybe dying in a car accident might not be included, there is plenty of evidence to state that those dying of the regular flu, which averages 60,000 per year, is being included.

I'm not here to fight you. I stated an opinion based on facts. You don't like the opinion then close your eyes.
Am I happy that so many have died and are dying the answer is no. Do I see the steps taken in reaction to what is happening as way overblown the answer is yes.

People die. That just is a simple fact of life. I chose not to end my life over the flu. Pandemic or otherwise. But, that may just be too much for you to understand?

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 21
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 7:48:51 PM   
Garfieldthecat

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		So much ignorance in this thread. Maybe people should pay attention to the science, and listen to the Scientists and Doctors instead of facebook.


(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 22
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 8:31:43 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Garfieldthecat

So much ignorance in this thread. Maybe people should pay attention to the science, and listen to the Scientists and Doctors instead of facebook.




+100000000000

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to Garfieldthecat)
Post #: 23
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 9:07:47 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Garfieldthecat

So much ignorance in this thread. Maybe people should pay attention to the science, and listen to the Scientists and Doctors instead of facebook.




+100000000000


this.

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

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Post #: 24
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 11:43:07 PM   
bayonetbrant

 

Posts: 431
Joined: 5/17/2012
Status: offline 		what's most astounding to be is not the sheer staggering levels of self-justifying idiocy on display here, with an overwhelmingly-predictable underlying political motivation, but that the Matrix admin/mods have left this open for so long for people to proudly and brazenly display their utter scientific incompetence as a badge of honor for their side of the culture wars.


do better, all of you

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 25
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/20/2020 11:45:54 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Garfieldthecat

So much ignorance in this thread. Maybe people should pay attention to the science, and listen to the Scientists and Doctors instead of facebook.




I know you posted after me and I hope it was not directed at me.
For one, I hate Facebook and never use it. So I do not get the ignorant information from there.
Second, this is the fourth pandemic that I have lived through (at least to this point).
The first three had the same effect or impact on the world as this one is doing except for the meddling of people and (for the most part) politicians.
The first three had similar percentages of deaths as this one. And, for that matter the draconian attempts to stop it or lessen the impact has not been as effective.
The hard truth is that the old and weak will die. Nothing can be done to change it. It is following all the paths of past pandemics (except maybe the Spanish Flu).
The only difference now is that people are willing to let governments shut down economies and take away the right of individuals that will eventually lead to more deaths in the future.

I had an old college professor that always said, "wake up people. Study history and don't be doomed to make it's mistakes." (Yes, I know he plagiarized.)

So,one, stop calling people ignorant. And, two, your opinion might not be the right one?

Just a thought. Do with it as you please. When people do not think like you it might be a good thing?

RR


_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Garfieldthecat)
Post #: 26
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/21/2020 12:28:10 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

The hard truth is that the old and weak will die. Nothing can be done to change it.
RR



Exactly the type of Medieval thinking that is trying to be avoided. Heaven forbid the weak and old should be cared for or about.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 12/21/2020 12:29:33 AM >

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 27
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/21/2020 12:32:19 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		Yes, I will definitely take the vaccine when I can. I have a family member is a front-line worker (supermarket), and isolating from said person is not an option. I like the odds of a vaccine reaction a lot better than the odds of long-term disability or death from Covid-19. And yes, long-haul effects are real -- I have another family member who is going through them.

_____________________________

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--Victor Hugo

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 28
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/21/2020 12:39:50 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I am so with the people questioning the impact of the Covid-19 death toll. How many hospitalized due to "it," is questionable. But it's very difficult to fake death certificates, so I am finding it harder to try to question the 312k deaths in the U.S.

Drunk-driving crashes claim more than 10,000 lives per year here. Covid-19 is blowing that number away. However, how many of those 312k would have died in the next year of other causes, is a key stat that should become available at some point.

Two people that I know personally got it and survived in NY. They were not hospitalized, but the suffering was hell. A third died after 30 days in the hospital. His family is now bankrupt.

Meanwhile, we relocate from OH at the height of it, regularly travel by car in OH, PA, NY, NJ, MA, KY, and IL like nothing was happening. Stay in double-digit number of hotels and eat in Cracker Barrel with all the other travelers. Of course, I am not going to worry about it, because I am an idiot, and we didn't get it. The economic impact we saw before-and-after was undeniable though.

Then two rental agents in our 300+ unit apartment complex in KY get it, and it shuts the office down. Okay, they never wore masks, but "it" is getting closer.

Now I am hoping the vaccine slows things down. With my health situation, like some of you, if I get "it," I am for sure hospitalized at best and certainly broke with no medical coverage.

The suffering and death it has caused is pretty enormous, and it's about time I am facing these facts.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 29
RE: COVID 19 - What do you know? - 12/21/2020 12:45:57 AM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		I have no brilliant answers to offer (wish I did).

But, through no specific deliberate choice of mine, I ended up watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles this evening, and what's truly scary, is the plot of the movie, is essentially the same as the covid conspiracy. Which is weirdly alarming.

Yes, there ARE a lot of very unnerving coincidences out there.
I'm not saying I support any of them as fact.
I don't support a lot of things.
I mean, if 10 out of 10 people are wrong about something, it's still important to remember, they are still wrong.
And you only need 1 person out of 10 to be right about something, to have a winner. Or 1 out of a 1000. Or 1 out of a million.
The thing is, facts are not decided by consensus. Facts are facts. Voting on them is not required.

The earth was actually known to be round BEFORE what we call the 'dark ages'. But sadly, we got told different information for a time.
The internet, I'm sure it was hoped the 'information age' would usher in an era of knowledge and understanding. But, it doesn't seem to have done so entirely. Unfortunately, information is 'just' information. It can be factually correct, or it can be just a lot of garbage information.

I don't rely on Google or Wiki for my 'knowledge'. I still rely on old school hard science in peer-reviewed materials and published works that had to make it past an editor and publisher. Not perfect of course. But it tends to require a lot of formal education to make it pass muster.

Here at Matrix Games, we're a significant density of historical knowledge. Most learned the old school way.
How many here have an MD qualification? How many here have an engineering degree? Anyone here actually a rocket scientist? Any molecular biologists in the house? Anyone have all 4 levels of qualification? Myself, I'm a talented painter and writer, and I've done architectural modeling. I'm great with wood working tools. I know nothing about virology. And I suck at electrician work too.

But I can smell bull a mile away :)

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 30
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