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Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/11/2020 2:18:47 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		https://www.wargamer.com/articles/command-modern-operations-multiplayer/

Article dated Feb. 10, 2020.

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Post #: 1
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/11/2020 2:49:20 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		I've been on the fence about multiplayer over the years, but I'm open to it at this point. I think the parameters for professional multiplayer and casual player multiplayer are somewhat divergent. In particular I think the multiplayer experience in Command will be more tailored for the Pro environment and that us casual players will have to use that interface and accept the associated complications of a tool made for a training purpose and not entertainment. Just spit-ballin', though.

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Post #: 2
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/12/2020 7:31:04 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		I too have been on the fence about this - mostly for two reasons 1) distraction of the Dev's time & effort for a substantial capability, and 2) multi-player can change the face of the community, not always, but not always for the better either.

Two aspects of multi-player that I think would be useful even for the commercial player however are:

1) having a livening thinking enemy will make for a whole new experience, and
2) making very large scenarios (mia culpa) easier to play by dividing the workload.

As long as the Devs are building the capability for the pro edition and it can (or will) be easily transferred to the commercial edition, I'm OK with that and can come off the fence.

Watching but not holding my breath.

B

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RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/12/2020 10:12:35 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I agree. Not holding my breath either. It's almost like people are afraid to show off their skills i.e. afraid to lose to a fellow community member. I know I would get my head handed to me. Don't care. But in the process it would be fun and maybe generated new ideas and friendships.

Kevin

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Post #: 4
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/12/2020 10:29:36 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		One of the biggest issues is going to be finding people willing to commit to playing in short spurts. I'll play for 15 minutes before something from work or home intervenes. Its why I only poke around at multiplayer except in turn-based games.

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Post #: 5
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/12/2020 10:49:14 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I think you could make Command "turned based" sort of like Combat Mission. That game has a small but very dedicated group of gamers exchanging files all the time. I am on the fence on this too. Is it worth the development time etc.? But I don't think a basic email system would be that cumbersome to develop. Would that be real time Command vs the AI? No. Interesting to play another human? Definitely Yes.

Kevin

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Post #: 6
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/12/2020 11:27:42 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I am very familiar with CM. And right now, Command is not really capable of WEGO with out some way to effectively review what has happened in the turn. The recorder is fidgety, resource hungry, and not really suitable for a WEGO-like game.

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Post #: 7
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/12/2020 11:52:55 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		The player really only needs the message log. Yes, rewinding the turn would be cool. But I think a basic WEGO system is in the reach of the developers within maybe a day or two of programming. Everything is in place. But this is one of those "nice to have" features. Twenty Five years ago, we all got into playing wargames via email. I would like to try Command against another human even if the system is not perfect. I am thinking we will have Multiplayer by the end of the year. Just a guess however. I have seen stats that only about 10% of wargamers play head to head against another human. Nice to try with Command? Yes. Critical for the developers? No.

Kevin

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“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


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Post #: 8
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/13/2020 12:33:20 AM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		I'm not sure why turn-based would work in a real-time game. Wouldn't each player just play in the time-stream with some sort of mutual agreement time compression function?

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Post #: 9
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/13/2020 10:29:27 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Its sort fo set up now with the time increment run time. But again, without a real granular replay ability, I am skeptical it would work. I think MP in large scenarios would be a mess if played in increments.

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Post #: 10
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 2/13/2020 10:48:10 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline 		Sorry, but I have no interest in the game having a multiplayer option.

I do recognize that others like it, but I would never use it. To me, it's similar to the TacView option, which I don't use either.

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Post #: 11
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/3/2020 12:55:48 PM   
Wasicun

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
Status: offline 		Coop missions will be great (i use Us Air force, my friend US Navy).
Come on guys, it's 2020. Almost every game has a multiplayer section.

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Post #: 12
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/3/2020 3:04:22 PM   
goldfinger35


Posts: 142
Joined: 1/1/2009
Status: offline 		Time for gameplay is a problem in most missions so Multiplayer would work for me only if each side has preparation time depending on complexity of mission (for example 15 minutes) to review the map, set up missions etc. and then mission would play on time compression for example 15 minutes, than each side has 5 minutes to re-tweak etc.

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Post #: 13
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/3/2020 4:03:40 PM   
Dimitris

 

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Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins
I think you could make Command "turned based" sort of like Combat Mission.
Kevin


An astute observation.

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Post #: 14
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 2:09:00 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline 		+1 to WEGO style turn-based system.

One of the reasons is time compression for ASW and navy operations. Timescale and length scale of air ops, naval ops, and ground ops are different. Full real-time will create an issue of "when and who will decide the initiation of time compression". It is possible to introduce a voting system for time compression in a real-time system, but there is a chance of trolling players ruin any MP game experience. IGOUGO turn games are not perfect, since it can make first turn player too good (depending on the scenario) or can make a particular player too favorable depending on the situation.

So I think WEGO style system can be a good solution.

Also, it would be interesting to introduce a system of different command aspects based on faction, just like Flashpoint Campaigns. Such as the limit of the possible number of orders per turn, which can vary with the morale of the force, HQ unit's status, or other conditions. Or, different turn cycle of command turn and execute turn based on factions.



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Post #: 15
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 6:09:54 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		+1 for WEGO too. Worked decently well for CM-series.

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Post #: 16
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 1:37:14 PM   
1nutworld


Posts: 365
Joined: 4/13/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

Sorry, but I have no interest in the game having a multiplayer option.

I do recognize that others like it, but I would never use it. To me, it's similar to the TacView option, which I don't use either.


Here here! As far as I am concerned, it would be a waste of Devs resources and time. I thought I'd enjoy using TacView, but once my trial ended, I didn't pay for the full license because I didn't find it worth my investment.

I understand those that want multi-player, but I imagine it would end up unintentionally like GTV with no rules being followed and nothing "realistic" which is the opposite of the purpose of CMO as far as I am concerned

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Post #: 17
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 1:53:46 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.


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And our blog: http://northernfury.us/blog/post2/
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Post #: 18
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 2:27:25 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.



Mine too.

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Post #: 19
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 2:42:45 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.



I'm not sure I grok that. I could certainly see the value of an oppositional multiplayer game. Playing against a human is leaps and bounds more challenging than against the AI (in most cases, at least), though certainly not without it's own drawbacks. Multiplayer cooperative is also desirable.

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Post #: 20
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 2:56:12 PM   
CV60


Posts: 992
Joined: 10/1/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.



I'm not sure I grok that. I could certainly see the value of an oppositional multiplayer game. Playing against a human is leaps and bounds more challenging than against the AI (in most cases, at least), though certainly not without it's own drawbacks. Multiplayer cooperative is also desirable.

quote:

I'm not sure I grok that. I could certainly see the value of an oppositional multiplayer game. Playing against a human is leaps and bounds more challenging than against the AI (in most cases, at least), though certainly not without it's own drawbacks. Multiplayer cooperative is also desirable.


I agree with Primarchx

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 21
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 3:02:18 PM   
TitaniumTrout


Posts: 374
Joined: 10/20/2014
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.



I'm not sure I grok that. I could certainly see the value of an oppositional multiplayer game. Playing against a human is leaps and bounds more challenging than against the AI (in most cases, at least), though certainly not without it's own drawbacks. Multiplayer cooperative is also desirable.


If Dimitris's comment was a hint, I'm super pumped for a CMO that is WEGO multiplayer. Regardless of how it works I could see it being a lot of fun. Hunting a carrier group that is played by a player is going to present so much more of a challenge. I ran some referee'd MP matches where I played the middleman and some of the crazy stuff people did made it very challenging.


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Post #: 22
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/4/2020 11:21:39 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Sort of odd while we are all at home that Dimitris does not release the MP they are working on for retail. Now is the time to test it out before many go back to work.

Kevin

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Post #: 23
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/5/2020 1:40:21 PM   
Parel803

 

Posts: 579
Joined: 10/10/2019
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		The WEGO sounds nice. Communication and divided responsibilities on the same side would be interesting. It's a difficult trade in the real world I guess :-)

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Post #: 24
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 5/7/2020 12:49:10 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Many probably have seen this, but might as well post it here too since it contains more info on WEGO from Pro:

https://www.warfaresims.com/?p=5076

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“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
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Post #: 25
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 12/20/2020 3:11:05 PM   
Wasicun

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
Status: offline 		Still nothing?
A very basic cooperative multiplayer will be enough!

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Post #: 26
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 12/27/2020 1:31:34 AM   
DwarfHeretic

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 10/23/2018
Status: offline 		I was right about time buying this game on last sale.
Was lurking here around for years, but not get the game before mostly because of lack of multiplayer and also because "hardcore" wargamers community for some reasons very salty about competitive PvP and prefer fight with dummy AIs. Maybe just don't like loosing, have no idea.
Got the game mostly in case "just to have". Very exited to watch the first games between real experts.

< Message edited by DwarfHeretic -- 12/27/2020 3:43:19 AM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 12/27/2020 12:46:38 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Well thats a very friendly post sure to make a lot of friends. btw, you realize this thread is almost a year old. There still has been no real announcement of MP, other than the above interview. If you bought the game for MP based on this thread, you might have a long wait and still be disappointed.

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Post #: 28
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 12/28/2020 10:29:00 AM   
Wasicun

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
Status: offline 		A very simple cooperative multiplayer mode will be great (so you can play a scenario with a friend).
Still nothing?

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Post #: 29
RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer - 12/28/2020 1:25:53 PM   
1nutworld


Posts: 365
Joined: 4/13/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wasicun

Still nothing?


probably for a while. Thankfully (as far as I am concerned) Multiplayer doesn't seem to be a high priority on the Devs list.

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Post #: 30
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