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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Decisive Battles: Korsun Pocket >> Strategy Question

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Strategy Question - 8/15/2003 2:12:17 AM

Snigbert
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I'm playing the large campaign as the Germans. It's around turn 17 or 18. Over the last few turns I received the 13th, 16th and 17th Panzer Divisions (in bad condition) and devoted all of my replacement units to bringing these divisions up to strength.

The pocket hasn't closed yet, there are about 10 hexes separating the two Soviet spearheads and at the moment I only have one infantry regiment in between them...most of my strength is tied up holding the eastern and western edges of the salient, or in the south protecting the reinforcement areas.

My question is this: Should I

A. Hold these 3 Panzer divisions in reserve in the South, assuming that the pocket closing is inevitable and they will be useful in reopening it...

B. Attempt to move the 3 Panzer divisions into the salient before the pocket closes, so they will be able to help in the defense and breakout...

C. Place them between the two Soviet spearheads and try to stop the Pocket from closing?...

I'm not sure if the first option is too fatalistic, but I would prefer keeping them in reserve than using them for option C which would put some of my best offensive units into a stationary, defensive role. And option B seems like it might be a good idea, but if I move too many units into the salient and the pocket closes, will the airfield be able to supply the extra troops?

Any advice would be appreciated.

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Post #: 1

- 8/15/2003 2:37:00 AM

Sonny
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Are you trolling?

O.K. - save the game. Then continue with what you feel is the best way to proceed. If you screw up the reload and continue from this decision point. That's part of the fun - seeing if your decisions are the better than RL commanders decisions - everyone likes to think they can do it better.

Why ask a bunch of strangers??:eek: :rolleyes:

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Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

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Post #: 2

- 8/15/2003 2:42:39 AM

Belisarius
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Well....here's 'any' advice; option B

A is quite sound, but 4 divisions won't help the units inside the pocket at all once it closes. You might be able to harrass the enveloping units some in the back but not enough to make a difference for those inside. Commit them, get them inside and use them as a spearhead once the pocket is ready for breakthrough.

C is a vaste of good units. :)

B'sides, after having read von Mellenthin's account of the 48th Panzer Corps, it 'feels' like something the Wehrmacht would have done. :p

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Post #: 3

- 8/15/2003 3:41:34 AM

Snigbert
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[B]O.K. - save the game. Then continue with what you feel is the best way to proceed. If you screw up the reload and continue from this decision point. That's part of the fun - seeing if your decisions are the better than RL commanders decisions - everyone likes to think they can do it better.[/B]

I don't play that way...I prefer playing where you live with your decisions and dont go back and reload if something you dont like happens. I think it's more realistic. So after investing about 5 hours getting to this point in the game I thought I'd ask people who had played it already for some advice. I'm surprised it strikes you as so strange...is this the first time you've seen someone ask for a tip on the game on one of these forums?

I also thought it might stimulate some discussion on whether the Pocket closing is inevitable, what sort of strategies should be used, etc.

[B]Why ask a bunch of strangers??[/B]

I could ask my mom, but I dont think she'd be much help. This seemed like the next most logical place. :)

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Post #: 4

- 8/15/2003 3:44:10 AM

Josans
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I am with Belisarius. Option B can work. I tried that strategy testing the game with Brubaker. Obviously every game is different and all depends of the overall situation.

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- 8/15/2003 3:45:19 AM

Fred98
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Snigbert has helped all of us to improve our play in Uncommon Valour -

- but I am yet to win a game against anybody :(

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Post #: 6

- 8/15/2003 4:09:08 AM

Snigbert
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[B]Snigbert has helped all of us to improve our play in Uncommon Valour -[/B]

I'm happy to be of help. I'm still trying to figure out why Sonny wants to make me feel like a jerk for asking for advice.

[B]- but I am yet to win a game against anybody[/B]

I didn't say I was giving good advice. :)

You need to find some players of your own skill level, if you didn't notice yet all the Australian players are UV masters so try to avoid playing them and challenge some Americans.

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Post #: 7

- 8/15/2003 7:45:17 PM

BrubakerII
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I don't think it is a forgone conclusion the pocket will close. Therefore, if you have strong enough units to keep the jaws open, I would do this. That way you can still have mobile units move in and out of the 'pocket' for some time longer. Don't forget, the Gemrans didn't want a pocket to form and simply used their reserves to try and undo it after it was done. If you can avoid it happenning altogether then you are one step ahead.

One big advantage you will have at this point is that the weather will be turning bad and therefore you have a lot of new defensive terrain in the form orf rivers that you can use to form barriers.

The AI is smart but not that smart. If you 'allow' it to advance too deep you can cut off its spearheads. Contemplate using one of your divisions as a blocking device in the jaws and the other two to position for a mini encirclement of an east or west spearhead when the weather turns good.

Brubaker

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Post #: 8

- 8/15/2003 8:26:47 PM

Sonny
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B]........... I'm still trying to figure out why Sonny wants to make me feel like a jerk for asking for advice.

............. [/B][/QUOTE]

My apologies for making you feel like a jerk. It was not my intention. I was not sure if you were kidding or not - which is why I asked if you were trolling. I was counter-trolling.

I don't go back and reload either. What ever decision I make is final and let the chips fall where they may.

I only suggested it because usually people who ask others to make a decision for them are the kind who do reload (they like to explore the what-if aspect of a situation). Yes there are lots of people who ask on forums what they should do. Seems to me they don't want to blame themselves when things don't turn out the way they want.

In your case, however, it appears that you were only trying to spark some discussion.

Of course there are people who don't even trust their mom.:D (just kidding)

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Post #: 9

- 8/16/2003 12:35:42 AM

Snigbert
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No problem Sonny. It's hard to pick up the tone of someone's comments when it is in writing sometimes.

I have turned my mom into a bit of a Civil war enthusiast lately...making her sit through God's and Generals and Gettysburg with me. She even recognized what an idiot Gen. Burnside was at Fredericksburg...nah, it would be way too unnatural to have my mom become a wargamer. :)

Anyway, I ended up sending the 3 Panzer divisions into the pocket, after fighting a short (one or two turn) delaying action against some of the overextended regiments of the Eastern Soviet Pincher.
I also received the 1st SS Panzer Division, a couple of heavy tank batallions and yet another Panzer Division (24th I think). I used this second wave of reinforcements, along with the muddy weather to slow down the soviet advances and the pocket still hasnt closed as of turn 24. The extra Panzer Korps inside of the pocket has been extremely helpful in plugging gaps in the western side of the salient.
This has been a really interesting game so far, lots of fun.

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Post #: 10

- 8/16/2003 1:45:35 AM

Sonny
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B]No problem Sonny. It's hard to pick up the tone of someone's comments when it is in writing sometimes.

......... [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, I should have used some smiley faces.:( :)

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Post #: 11

- 8/16/2003 7:30:35 AM

BrubakerII
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From: Adelaide Australia
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]Of course there are people who don't even trust their mom.:D (just kidding) [/B][/QUOTE]

You've never met my mother! :eek:

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Post #: 12