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A word of advice to the new players

 
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A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 5:57:21 AM   
Ambassador

 

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Hello everyone,

I have seen many new faces/names around, new players having recently bought the game when it went on sale a couple of weeks ago. Welcome to you all !

While I find it great that such a game attracts new players even 11 years after the release, I’m a bit concerned by the proportion of you I see talking about following the tutorials and starting their first game « following Kull’s excellent spreadsheet ».

While I can only confirm that Kull’s spreadsheets is a very good reminder of everything there is to do in the game at start, I’m not sure most of you realize that scenario 1, or any derivative, is the not ideal scenario to learn the game. The full campaign scenarios might be why you were interested in the game at first, and they certainly are the ones most players launch most of the time, but it’s BIG !

The list of scenarios is not a list which should be followed numerically, #2 after #1, #3 after #2, etc. In fact, in order to learn the game most adequately (in my opinion, and I’ve seen other grognards with the same opinion), it’s easier to start small.

Scen 1 can be daunting, you won’t finish it in 50 hours, nor even 500. Past the first few turns and some exceptions, it might take a bit less than one full hour to set the orders up for each turn, even for veteran players who’ve done it countless times (multiple thousands certainly). The scope of the game, the intricacies of the game engine, the details of the OOB & TOE, the minutiae of the logistics, all that adds up. And if you’re still learning the game, the amount of clicking you have have between turns will make your attention disperse on many different things, so that you might not perceive every consequences of your decisions.

So, besides watching the tutorials, besides reading the Useful info for beginners and the FAQ threads (and various other threads), besides reading and documenting yourself on how real life Pacific War was conducted (there’re often good hints for the game in real life history), I also suggest you to start with the smaller scenarios, to get your grasp of mechanics bit by bit.

Start first with the Coral Sea scenario. The scope is much narrower, and you’ll learn to use aircraft carriers, surface combat, some parts of aerial warfare, how task forces are routed, and the like. The scenario lasts only a couple of days, and can be played fully in a few hours, but you will also see the results of your tactical settings in a very short time, instead of waiting a couple of (real time) days in a scenario 1 to see the result of a set of order you made two turns ago.

So, start Coral Sea, start it again, play it from both perspectives. And it’s the AI, you might also load the save at the end from the other side’s to see what real damage your bombs made. Or play it both sides at the same time.

And then, the second step might be the Guadalcanal campaign. It’s in the same general area as Coral Sea, so it’s a natural progression, but it lasts longer, several months of game days. Turns can be played nearly as fast as in Coral Sea, and you won’t have as many operations ongoing as in a full campaign, so you can better remember what you did. And playing it, you’ll get experience at organizing your task forces, how to conduct ground warfare, and more importantly : logistics !

Logistics are the alternate name of the game, and the Guadalcanal scenario will show you the importance of managing your supply and your fuel, how much both of them are used by ground, air or naval assets. You’re at the tail end of the logistical road, and only have one theater of operation to focus on, so it’ll be much easier.

Learning logistics in a full campaign is much more difficult, because not only do you have to allocate the supplies at the end, to various bases, but you also have to setup your hubs to distribute that supply right from Continental US.

Guadalcanal will also teach you to plan and execute an invasion (or how to counter/delay it from the IJ - Imperial Japan - side). The first one is already planned, with TFs already loaded and units prepped for Lunga and Tulagi, but beyond that first step, there are other operations you may conduct.


Long story short : Coral Sea will teach you tactical warfare ; Guadalcanal will teach you operational warfare ; and a full campaign is full on strategic warfare. You need to understand tactical warfare before you delve in operational warfare, and as the full campaign means balancing the needs of several operational theater of operations, you need to know how to conduct one in order to allocate the right assets.

I hope I’ve been clear and helpful, and wish you to embark on countless hours of play.


One last bit of advice : don’t hesitate to ask questions, but please check the other recent threads (and do a quick search) to see if you can’t find the answer yourself.
Post #: 1
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 6:01:13 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
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From: Finland/Israel
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It's like a pizza, you do not have it all at once.

Slice by slice.

Person will grow by the challenge

Or become a grognard...

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Ambassador)
Post #: 2
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 6:36:33 AM   
Ambassador

 

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Oh, I forgot to add something.

Before you start a full campaign, read Sardaukar’s AARs against the AI.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 3
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 11:55:10 AM   
btd64


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I want to add that you will eventually want to start using a notebook. That way you can keep notes and prevent yourself from going crazy if you forget something. A notebook is more important with larger scenarios....GP

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Post #: 4
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 1:15:53 PM   
Sardaukar


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It is actually easy when getting to routine.

I have my own here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4936471

It really is a game of logistics, only after that it gets bit more interesting

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 5
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 2:10:12 PM   
Q-Ball


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Good advice, and in addition I would highly recommend, for your first campaign, doing Allies vs. the AI. It's a great way to get used to the engine. I would tackle Japan vs. AI next. THEN go ahead and do a PBEM.

To do well in PBEM, you really have to have played both sides, so you know the strengths and challenges each side faces (because they are very different)

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Post #: 6
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 3:07:51 PM   
Randy Stead


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As one of the newbs to whom this advice is relevant, a hearty concurrence! I began to setup a grand campaign with Kull's spreadsheet, but I began to realize I was trying to eat a whale with a spoon. I've put that aside for now so I can cut my teeth on some smaller fish, the scenarios. I've done Coral Sea twice as Allies vs AI; today I plan to do CS as IJN.

Ambassador's advice is well worth heeding, my fellow rookies. By the end of the first scenario I was really beginning to get the hang of it. And of course, having read plenty of material beforehand was a huge help. Being a bookworm about war, especially WWII [and a period of real life military service] I have come to agree with, it is attributed to Napoleon the saying, "Amateurs study tactics, experts study logistics." In the Coral Sea scenario you don't touch logistics. In Guadalcanal, my next meal after I have had three or four servings of Coral Sea buffet, I will get to tackle land combat, amphib, etc. as detailed, above. After doing Guadalcanal a few times, I believe I will feel I have mastered enough basic concepts to apply it to the whole.

Combine scenario experience with forum participation and you will learn much. You can see that learning curve in my discussion with veteran players in my thread My first go at this game... There, I share my experiences and ask certain questions, the answers to which provide more insight into several game concepts; damage control, ship repair, submarine logistics, air searches. Although I am still a few steps away from a grand campaign, I am feeling less apprehensive about it.

And of course, welcome to my fellow cohort of rookies.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 7
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 3:22:06 PM   
BBfanboy


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When you do start a Grand Campaign game the key thing is to think ahead at least six months and set your initial objectives for that timeline. Establish what you are unwilling to fight for and what you will fight for - that will help you decide where to build up and supply and where to extract troops from. Some locations may be speed bumps, especially in the DEI where many units are permanently restricted and you do not want to give up oil and other industry without a fight. The places you choose to defend will be based on the usefulness of the base (as a supply/fuel hub or air/naval strongpoint) and the victory point value of the base to you or the enemy. Decide where you need Auxiliary ships like AS/AV(D)(P)/AG(P)/AE/AKE/AR(D) - that will help you decide which/how many xAKs you need to convert.

Start your deployable units preparing for bases they will attack or defend. Establish naval search and recon to monitor the enemy. Don't forget: assess what the enemy could do before you think what it is likely to do. You need to defend against the former even if you think it is unlikely.

Every month or so, reassess your strategic six month goals and make changes based on what the enemy has done and any opportunities you see. Make use of the SIGINT you have been seeing to fill out the picture of where the enemy is heading and what units may be in place where. Look at your reinforcement queues for the coming months and make notes on where you will send major units. Sometimes you will need to position transports and ASW escorts at unusual locations to move these arriving units (e.g. a couple of units arrive at Penrinh (sp?) Island and major warships arriving at Balboa). By selecting units in the queue you can also plan to save Political Points to buy them out to an unrestricted HQ if necessary, or make plans for them to combine with other units to form a larger one.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 8
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/6/2021 6:35:48 PM   
Randy Stead


Posts: 454
Joined: 12/23/2000
From: Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

When you do start a Grand Campaign game the key thing is to think ahead at least six months and set your initial objectives for that timeline. Establish what you are unwilling to fight for and what you will fight for - that will help you decide where to build up and supply and where to extract troops from. Some locations may be speed bumps, especially in the DEI where many units are permanently restricted and you do not want to give up oil and other industry without a fight. The places you choose to defend will be based on the usefulness of the base (as a supply/fuel hub or air/naval strongpoint) and the victory point value of the base to you or the enemy. Decide where you need Auxiliary ships like AS/AV(D)(P)/AG(P)/AE/AKE/AR(D) - that will help you decide which/how many xAKs you need to convert.

Start your deployable units preparing for bases they will attack or defend. Establish naval search and recon to monitor the enemy. Don't forget: assess what the enemy could do before you think what it is likely to do. You need to defend against the former even if you think it is unlikely.

Every month or so, reassess your strategic six month goals and make changes based on what the enemy has done and any opportunities you see. Make use of the SIGINT you have been seeing to fill out the picture of where the enemy is heading and what units may be in place where. Look at your reinforcement queues for the coming months and make notes on where you will send major units. Sometimes you will need to position transports and ASW escorts at unusual locations to move these arriving units (e.g. a couple of units arrive at Penrinh (sp?) Island and major warships arriving at Balboa). By selecting units in the queue you can also plan to save Political Points to buy them out to an unrestricted HQ if necessary, or make plans for them to combine with other units to form a larger one.


Getting into this game really brings home to me how difficult were the challenges of the real life commanders. Fellows like Nimitz and Macarthur had so many balls to juggle and keep in the air at once. They had to plan camgaigns for months in advance, then implement the training schedules and logistics to make it happen. I've not yet played the Guadalcanal scenario and have only read some threads about it, but all agree that supply is an important part of that scenario. Even more so for the entire theater. And above guys like Nimitz and Macarthur you had blokes like Marshall and Alanbrooke who had to manage all of the bells and whistles that go into a war, and all of the primadonnas below them. No wonder their pay grade was so much higher than the grunts.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 9
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/7/2021 2:11:52 AM   
Kull


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I'd take it one level down and suggest starting with the "Aleutians". You'll learn about search and subs and small amphib ops, plus small convoys and such. They don't get any more bite size than that. Everything about it is small and limited in scope.

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Post #: 10
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/7/2021 3:42:22 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

Fellows like Nimitz and Macarthur had so many balls to juggle and keep in the air at once. They had to plan camgaigns for months in advance, then implement the training schedules and logistics to make it happen.


Yeah, but they had staffs to assist them, we don't.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 11
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/7/2021 4:08:38 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
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One thing here, is the people willing to give advice.

It is a great community.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 12
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/7/2021 7:20:00 AM   
Yaab


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A word of advice to the new players - use MS Word for the grand campaign.

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Post #: 13
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/13/2021 4:10:51 PM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Fellows like Nimitz and Macarthur had so many balls to juggle and keep in the air at once. They had to plan camgaigns for months in advance, then implement the training schedules and logistics to make it happen.


Yeah, but they had staffs to assist them, we don't.

Well, if you want to hire some staff...

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 14
RE: A word of advice to the new players - 1/14/2021 7:17:16 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Fellows like Nimitz and Macarthur had so many balls to juggle and keep in the air at once. They had to plan camgaigns for months in advance, then implement the training schedules and logistics to make it happen.


Yeah, but they had staffs to assist them, we don't.

Well, if you want to hire some staff...


Would love to, just don't have the capital.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Ambassador)
Post #: 15
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