Basic Tutorial

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Basic Tutorial

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Basic Tutorial

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Basic Tutorial - 1/6/2021 12:36:39 PM

cbrandonellis

Posts: 29
Joined: 1/9/2018
Status: offline

Hey All - In anticipation of WitE 2 I'm doing a Basic Tutorial for the original game on my channel. As some of you may know I also just completed a WitP Tutorial series that was well received, so if you know anyone looking to get into the game or brush up on the basics these are very in-depth tutorials starting from the ground floor. You experts can also chime in with useful tips as we go along

Here is a link to Episode #1

War in the East Basic Tutorial

Post #: 1

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/6/2021 12:45:14 PM

wwtiger89

Posts: 10
Joined: 8/10/2018
Status: offline

Just wanted to post an endorsement... I've really enjoyed this series so far (as well as some of your non-Matrix stuff)

(in reply to cbrandonellis)

Post #: 2

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/6/2021 9:40:53 PM

CJM

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/12/2014
Status: offline

What I would love to see is for someone to put together a comprehensive run down of what all the numbers on the map, unit counters and pop-ups actually mean.

I have played wargames for 40 years at this point, and the first pages of every rule book always had pictures of the counters/etc along with a simple explanation of what all the numbers pertained to. For whatever reason, every PC based game I have purchased so far fails to do this. It would make it that much easier for someone to climb into the driver's seat and begin to really get into the game. Here are some example of what I made for WiTE to get myself started. I have since learned what most of the numbers mean, but for those new to the game a list would be of great assistance.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The Wehrmacht that set out to conquer Russia in 1941 was a poor army with strictly limited resources.
- Supplying War (1977)

(in reply to wwtiger89)

Post #: 3

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/6/2021 9:42:16 PM

CJM

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/12/2014
Status: offline

Example 2

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The Wehrmacht that set out to conquer Russia in 1941 was a poor army with strictly limited resources.
- Supplying War (1977)

(in reply to CJM)

Post #: 4

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/6/2021 9:42:52 PM

CJM

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/12/2014
Status: offline

Example 3

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The Wehrmacht that set out to conquer Russia in 1941 was a poor army with strictly limited resources.
- Supplying War (1977)

(in reply to CJM)

Post #: 5

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/7/2021 6:41:53 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CJM

Example 2

The simplest example. What's this from the unofficial manual.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to CJM)

Post #: 6

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/7/2021 11:25:36 AM

hazxan

Posts: 69
Joined: 11/10/2007
Status: offline

Totally agree! Though I would go further and say that the underlying problem is inadequate User Interface design.

Look at the first image you posted - the "call out" boxes you've added would be really useful as tool tips. You've even half designed how the screen should look! We've had tooltips for decades, yet WITE/WITW are really deficient in them. I know people will say "read the manual". But even when you do, you then have to remember what each number means. What the number in braces or with an asterisk means - it's different every time and it would be so easy to put a description on the screen, like in your images.

Also showing in your images - columns with no headings. Why not put a description on the heading? With a tooltip that explains it? Numbers floating around, badly aligned with no explanation. This is why the game needs to become your lifes work - if you leave the game for a few weeks, you have to relearn it all - and spend yet more time going through the manual to find what an asterisk means.

TBH This is what drove me away from these games. Not the actual game complexity. But that the interface confuses things even more, not displaying things like basic column headings, tool tips and so on. I'm a developer so I know these are trivial to implement (if you are using a sensible UI framework...). That's what I don't get - we're not talking anything flashy, just what is generally considered the bare minimum in software usability. It's nothing that requires vast expense, just basics. Columns of numbers should have a heading explaining what they are. This is not the only very basic rule of UI design that is broken (ignored?) in this and many other computer wargames.

And going off on a tangent.. I think that this lack of attention to accesibility is a big reason "serious" wargames remain such a tiny niche. That and poor production values in general. NOT complexity or lack of flashy graphics. Plenty of complex games (eg HOI) have huge followings. The difference is things like presenting information in a way that makes it easy to understand - this being, to me and probably thousands of other strategy gamers - the big blocker on WITE/WITW type games. HOI is complex yet has 100,000s of players because it is accesible. When you hover over numbers, you get tooltip boxes explaining them and the rules behind them, just like in your examples - right there, in the game.

I can only guess that as a spin off from board games, most of the market are happy reading a 400 page manual before starting and having to refer to it regularly to make sense of lists of untitled numbers.

Will be interesting to see if the UI is improved for WITE2, from screenshots, it doesn't look like it.

Bye, and "45* (3.4) M -0.44 [R] " for now

< Message edited by hazxan -- 1/7/2021 11:35:06 AM >

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 7

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/7/2021 4:29:36 PM

CJM

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/12/2014
Status: offline

Yes, I agree that you can find all the information in the manual, but it would be nice to have all that information easily laid out in one area. For example, see the below from an old Avalon Hill game -- it showed this for ALL the counters and map graphics at the very front of the rule book. This was standard for every game that I recall.

Also, like the gentleman (hazxan) below said, why not add tool tips? AEGOD uses them extensively, and it helps new players learn the game. Either way, love WiTE and WiTW; just throwing out suggestions that could make it easier for new players so the mountain is a bit easier to climb

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The Wehrmacht that set out to conquer Russia in 1941 was a poor army with strictly limited resources.
- Supplying War (1977)

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 8

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/30/2021 5:30:44 AM

cbrandonellis

Posts: 29
Joined: 1/9/2018
Status: offline

Bump

(in reply to CJM)

Post #: 9

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/30/2021 6:18:18 PM

GPT55

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/13/2011
Status: offline

This information could easily be provided in a "tool tip" where you hover the mouse over something and a little popup explains what it is. Obviously this technique is already used in the game, but I don't understand why it isn't more widely used. This is generally pretty easy to program (though mutilingual support would make it harder). Then users would not have to search the manual for explanations of displayed information, which in some cases maybe can't be found. I think the programmers that produced this game are amazing, but it seems like they dropped the ball here. Maybe WITE2 will improve this.

(in reply to cbrandonellis)

Post #: 10

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/31/2021 7:34:29 PM

loutro

Posts: 67
Joined: 12/29/2020
Status: offline

I have played wargames for over 40 years. I am also a visual designer who works in finance.

Having to refer to a 300 page manual is a very poor method of conveying vital information required to play a game.
You can lose your train of thought and planning by having to pause, search for the description, try to understand what is being explained and THEN going back to the game.

I agree that tool tips are vital. And I see no reason why there can't be a mini-manual IN GAME. If you can click a button to see the Hot Key menu...just do the same for the basic info presented in game.

I realize WiTE is 10 years old but hope the new version does a better job of this.

And one other note...I hope and pray the in the new version, moving Support Units around isn't some massive click fest.
A pop up window for an army group / army / corps can show all subordinate units and support units, in the same space. A drag and drop function would save hours every turn as well as making it visually easier to see what units are attached.

(in reply to GPT55)

Post #: 11

RE: Basic Tutorial - 1/31/2021 11:10:44 PM

eskuche

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline

Totally support everything that is going on here. I believe WitW and WitE2 have those single page how-to sections that these older games are lacking.

_____________________________

(in reply to loutro)

Post #: 12

RE: Basic Tutorial - 2/2/2021 10:44:24 AM

clientsiman

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/29/2021
Status: offline

Your tutorials are amazing, thank you.

(in reply to eskuche)

Post #: 13

RE: Basic Tutorial - 2/7/2021 3:55:28 PM

ready4you

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/7/2021
Status: offline

As a new WITE player who has years of experience in strategy games (talon soft battleground series, SSI five star series, hearts of iron etc) I have to concur with previous statements that WITE has some serious accessibility challenges to overcome due to reasons already stated. At 40 years old, i value my time and i am finding it increasingly difficult to justify the time spent learning new mechanics that could be presented in more intuitive and accessible means before I even start playing.

(in reply to clientsiman)

Post #: 14