Victory pact but no rights to pass territory?

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Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/6/2021 8:37:53 PM

Clubstuhl

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2021
Status: offline

Hey,

I`ve got a victory pact with a Major, but they are not coming in my territory to help me killing another Major on the other side. Are they not allowed to pass (the pact would have no benefit in a lot of cases)? Can`t find something about it in the manuel.

Post #: 1

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/6/2021 10:11:21 PM

eddieballgame

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline

It is an interesting game mechanic.
Certainly prevents any 'cheesy' tactics vs the AI...or a human for that matter.

(in reply to Clubstuhl)

Post #: 2

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/7/2021 12:59:11 AM

Maerchen

Posts: 348
Joined: 6/16/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

Regarding cheese, there are some suggestions for stratagems to exchange territory in the suggestions subforum to adress that issue without said cheese.

_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to eddieballgame)

Post #: 3

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/7/2021 1:39:05 AM

eddieballgame

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
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I do think the Victory Pact should (at least) act like an alliance where each side can traverse each other's terrain.
With the added caveat, the alliance can't be broken...for example.

(in reply to Maerchen)

Post #: 4

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/7/2021 3:22:07 PM

springel

Posts: 363
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame

I do think the Victory Pact should (at least) act like an alliance where each side can traverse each other's terrain.
With the added caveat, the alliance can't be broken...for example.

That would open up a whole can of worms for the supply chains. I agree that it would be good, but it would also be complicated: transfer resources to the ally, couple the logistic systems.

(in reply to eddieballgame)

Post #: 5

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/7/2021 7:01:27 PM

eddieballgame

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame

I do think the Victory Pact should (at least) act like an alliance where each side can traverse each other's terrain.
With the added caveat, the alliance can't be broken...for example.

That would open up a whole can of worms for the supply chains. I agree that it would be good, but it would also be complicated: transfer resources to the ally, couple the logistic systems.

Good point, which begs the question...why not just allow 'allies' to build roads & railways on said ally's terrain?
No need to incorporate the mechanic that allows for each ally to use the other's logistics' network...keep it simple.
Would, at least, be a possible improvement over the current mechanic. imho
Then again...I am ok with the way it is now.
It just makes diplomacy per 'teaming up' a bit more challenging.

(in reply to springel)

Post #: 6

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/7/2021 9:07:27 PM

Clubstuhl

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2021
Status: offline

Yeah the logistic is a thing to consider. Why not allow them to use your roads but with their logistic points.
In combination with a Card or option to take over 25%,50%,75%,100% of their used logistic points when troops are in your territory (but the AI are always full supplied, as far as I know)
Let them build roads in your territory would cause a lot of useless roads i would guess.

(in reply to eddieballgame)

Post #: 7

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/8/2021 9:27:55 AM

Maerchen

Posts: 348
Joined: 6/16/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

I hope that unit and territory ownership/conquer on move aren't hardcode bound together. I would love to see my allies helping me out.

_____________________________

(in reply to Clubstuhl)

Post #: 8

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/8/2021 12:52:56 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clubstuhl

Hey,

I`ve got a victory pact with a Major, but they are not coming in my territory to help me killing another Major on the other side. Are they not allowed to pass (the pact would have no benefit in a lot of cases)? Can`t find something about it in the manuel.

Being able to traverse each others terrain would be a usefull rework - but also a massive rework!

Currently the game is designed around the idea:
1 Hex, 1 Owner, 1 Empires units, 1 Empires Logistics
Those are all parts of the game that would need a rework, to allow this. And I big one at that.

And then we come to stuff like "who can attack from where" and "who is getting the territory", "who is hostile to who?".
Everyone that played a Paradox game will tell you what kind of eternal headache those parts are!

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 1/8/2021 12:53:36 PM >

(in reply to Clubstuhl)

Post #: 9

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/8/2021 6:45:32 PM

eddieballgame

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clubstuhl

Hey,

I`ve got a victory pact with a Major, but they are not coming in my territory to help me killing another Major on the other side. Are they not allowed to pass (the pact would have no benefit in a lot of cases)? Can`t find something about it in the manuel.

Being able to traverse each others terrain would be a usefull rework - but also a massive rework!

Currently the game is designed around the idea:
1 Hex, 1 Owner, 1 Empires units, 1 Empires Logistics
Those are all parts of the game that would need a rework, to allow this. And I big one at that.

And then we come to stuff like "who can attack from where" and "who is getting the territory", "who is hostile to who?".
Everyone that played a Paradox game will tell you what kind of eternal headache those parts are!

Based on what 'zgrssd' has stated...maybe this should be left alone, for now.
If it ain't broke...don't fix it.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 10

RE: Victory pact but no rights to pass territory? - 1/8/2021 7:32:42 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clubstuhl

Hey,

I`ve got a victory pact with a Major, but they are not coming in my territory to help me killing another Major on the other side. Are they not allowed to pass (the pact would have no benefit in a lot of cases)? Can`t find something about it in the manuel.

Being able to traverse each others terrain would be a usefull rework - but also a massive rework!

Currently the game is designed around the idea:
1 Hex, 1 Owner, 1 Empires units, 1 Empires Logistics
Those are all parts of the game that would need a rework, to allow this. And I big one at that.

And then we come to stuff like "who can attack from where" and "who is getting the territory", "who is hostile to who?".
Everyone that played a Paradox game will tell you what kind of eternal headache those parts are!

Based on what 'zgrssd' has stated...maybe this should be left alone, for now.
If it ain't broke...don't fix it.

Well, technically it is broken:
I remember a YouTube MP series where they failed to defeat the last major (lots of infantry in ruins), as they each could only get a half surround.

Is there at least a way to give hexes to Victory pact friends?

(in reply to eddieballgame)

Post #: 11