RhinoDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ambassador
quote:
ORIGINAL: RhinoDad
Yes, Rotterdam was intentionally bombed as a civilian target. They were following in the English example of civilian targeting in Germany. The English started bombing civilians the Germans followed suit.
I had planned to stay clear of this discussion, but I can’t let this pass.
The Germans bombed cities after the British did so ?
Bombing of Wielun
September 1, 1939, in the early morning. Britain wasn’t even at war yet.
Yes, RAF policy was officially changed immediately after the Luftwaffe bombing of Rotterdam in support of infantry in a deadlock in the city, to include civilian targeting. They followed up with raids on German cities the following day. German cities at that time were just beginning to institute blackout because of a French Bombing of the Berlin airport.
The initial bombing of London, if you can even call it that, was an accident and was caused under blackout conditions at night by one bomber dropping his unused load on return to France. With blackout and at night it is next to impossible to see what you are over. Dead reckoning often used to find targets then makes that worse. The suburb hit also contained a nearby airfield and was the bombers secondary target. It also was not in London but in the London Air Civil defense zone. It was not a large populated area. The pilot was summoned to Berlin for court martial as Hitler had personally ordered London bombing off limits and to take care not to kill civilians. It was thought that he would be executed. However, on the trip to Berlin the English bombed London and infuriated Hitler who then ordered London bombed in retaliation as well as an attempt to draw the RAF into a fight. The pilot then ended up with all charges dropped and no court martial. London was not bombed until rather late in the Battle of Britain and Germany advantages were faltering.
British always the master at propaganda called it a dastardly raid on civilians in London. But today, it is a part of London, though then it was not. They also inflated the Rotterdam casualties to around 100,000 civilians in a bombing with total disregard to civilian casualties, when the Dutch estimated the civilian casualties at around 30,000 and in direct support of German troops on the ground, and that the Germans had demonstrated care in trying to minimize collateral damage.
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French bombing of Berlin in June, though they took great care to only hit Berlin Airport. Was very small and in WW1 stile many of munitions were hand dropped out the plane’s window on very low airport flyover. They were helped by the fact that German cities were not implementing blackout at the time. But it did get the Germans to begin blackout implementations.
British strategic bombing of German cities May
German bombing of airfield outside of London late August, somewhere under 10 civilians died from stray bombs; British propaganda claimed it a civilian bombing of London and used it as pretext for Berlin strategic bombing
British strategic bombing of Berlin late August
German London and other cities strategic bombing September.
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Until the Berlin bombing, by the British, the Luftwaffe was under strict orders from Hitler personally to restrict bombing to military targets that would pose minimum risk to civilians. Violations were punishable by up to death. After Berlin things changed.
Please do not get me wrong, Hitler was in no way a good person. But at least in the west the Germans started out with a more gentlemanly approach. The English are a scrappy people and they were losing at the time. At this time many even in England believed that they would lose the war and championed for a negotiated settlement. The British did not wish to lose.
However, strategic bombing was something done/tried in WW1 by both sides. However, at least both sides tried to undertake policies between the wars to minimize civilian casualties at least in the beginning of WW2. (And only on the western front)
Note the English raids on Berlin were quite small as there were few bombers with the range to strike. Strikes on other German cities were larger but small compared to later raids that were to come.
Churchill was known to be elated by the German switch to strategic targeting as it meant the RAF would be able to recover and surely win the Battle of Britain it was the beginning of the end.
German policy also shifted after bombing of German cities to one of threatening the Benelux countries with strategic bombing if they did not surrender. Prior they would infiltrate the civilian populations trying to spread panic and thereby clog the roads with fleeing civilians; limiting the ability for troop maneuver.
With continued strategic bombing employed by the RAF. It also opened up strategic targets in populated cities as civilian collateral damage was now seen as acceptable. Prior large populated cities were seen as off limits because they would cause large numbers of civilian deaths; it was not in direct support of military. Targets were confined to targets of a more direct military nature. Airfields, ships in harbor (not at docks), etc. (close and tactical air support) It is distinct from the strategic bombing employed early on by the RAF; that of bombing cities that might have some use to the enemies war effort.
Your example is of a bombing in Poland. That is the eastern front. Slavs were considered by western European as near savages and by the Germans as sub-human. The Germans had a whole different set of rules of engagement for Army, Navy, Air forces on the eastern front. Was under the impression this discussion was on the western or African front. If it includes all fronts than yes, the Germans were the first to employ strategic bombing, but was confined to eastern front. These did not involve western allied troops. It also has gone on a bit longer than originally thought.
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TF Cohesion - 
), and he refused to implement some of the orders coming from higher up (for example regarding commandos). 
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