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Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/21/2020 12:52:24 AM

kerog

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/23/2013
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I used to play WIF FTF (30 years ago) and am just now really starting to fiddle with MWIF.

(1) I've seen fighters in lower sea boxes get included in combats where their search number wasn't rolled, but can't find anywhere in the rules that covers that. Can someone direct me to the explanation in the rules, or explain why it's happening?

(2) When calculating the number of units that the British can have in France, does the number include the HQ unit itself? Or is it the HQ *plus* its reorg factor?

(3) How does the German production multiple get raised if the French aren't foolish enough to attack into Germany?

(4) How do people conquer Norway in the winter? Just get lucky with weather rolls? Send an HQ? Attacking in snow seems suicidal, but can't supply a significant attack in rain... and what generally happens if the CW intervenes?

(5) I find, particularly in air to air, that the game sometimes gets stuck, I think because there's a hidden dialog or something. I've found by flailing around with control keys I can get it unstuck, but am not sure what exactly I am doing. Can someone tell me what the specific sequence it is that works?

Thanks in advance!

Post #: 1

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/21/2020 1:08:58 PM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

Yes, you seem a bit rusty... or maybe you were playing really old versions of wif, that didnt include newer changes.

MWIF is VERY respectful with WIF, so these kind of changes in rules do not happen unless they change from board game to computer game, like Asia size or OFF Map hexes no longer existing, or some eventual bug.

1 This could happen depending on whether there are enemy convoys which can give a +1 to serch roll per 1 to 10, +2 per 11 to 20, ..., or if the FTR is piled with a NAV or CVP that can give it one or more +1. It could also mean that, athough this plane didnt succeed, the enemy side did and included it in the combat. First things that come to my mind as possible.

2 The HQ doesnt count, it is the HQ plus the reorg factor.

3 It goes up every year, like the other countries do (most years). There is a table in wif, and in mwif as well I guess, to know this in advance. It may not be foolish to do the french attack. In my current game my opponent left the french border with few and some of them crappy units, and that let me as a French destroy 2 GARR without losses, take Saarbrucken taking the resource and destroying his factory. Plus I moved 4 corps inside and aligned YU, not too bad for a + 0,50 even though the GE production is huge. But it could just have been a +0,25 had I opted to retreat to France (the rule is +0,25 because of having attacks in home country + 0,25 per unit in the county at the end of the turn...), I could have come back to France once YU was aligned and his two GARR dead and leave it as a +0,25 , but I thought the occupation of the resource and his loss of a resource and a factory compensated. Plus he has now a new zoc when attacking Belgium.

4 Badly. It's not so difficult to take the capital considering the 1 or 2 crappy units the Norges get, if you commit good GE units, PARA, MAR, white printed, ..., if you care to do it with a good climate, BUT the Brits have it too easy to take Trondheim and defend it,not to speak of Narvik, and have a beachhead. If they feel stronger they may even defend (in MWIF) Kristiansand and the only Norge resource, plus there they can have naval support.

5 This is very frequent and is due to what you believe. The game is ready to be played with more than one screen as well, and this may be the reason why some popups display out of the screen visible area. I am no expert with this, sometimes I reload, and usually it is solved, but I kind of remember other solutions, for example this happens to another user in this thread.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4927839&mpage=1&key=�

It seems a certain screen layout (lent or designed by you according to your preferences) may improve or solve the issue.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 12/21/2020 1:14:03 PM >

(in reply to kerog)

Post #: 2

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/21/2020 1:30:38 PM

Courtenay

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Joined: 11/12/2008
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1) You are included in a combat if search box is lower than or equal to what needed to roll, after adjustments. (Adjustments are +1 for NAVs or CVPs, +1 for every 10 convoys or fraction thereof, and -1 for bad weather. The first two are not applied in storms or blizzard.)

3) You can access a copy of the WiF charts from one of the MWiF menus

4) Usually people don't conquer Norway at all. With the WiF rules, what the other side gains (a bunch of CPs and some transports) is worth more than what you gain.

5) Yes, sometimes a form get stuck behind the map. There should be a small corner sticking out, and you can click on that. If that didn't happen, you can flail at your computer using window commands to do windows. Sometimes you are able to roll up the map (the little thing at the top left corner of the map border.) Rarely, nothing works. But usually one way or another you can bring the hidden window forard.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to kerog)

Post #: 3

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/21/2020 1:49:09 PM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

Courtenay, could you explain a little how can I do this: "you can flail at your computer using window commands to do windows" , I honestly don�t know how to do it and it seems quite interesting, can you give an example?

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 12/21/2020 1:50:57 PM >

(in reply to Courtenay)

Post #: 4

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/21/2020 2:46:58 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Courtenay, could you explain a little how can I do this: "you can flail at your computer using window commands to do windows" , I honestly don�t know how to do it and it seems quite interesting, can you give an example?

In Windows taskmanager (to be called up using CTRL-ALT-DEL), one can refresh the screens. There is a command one can use there (see picture - it's in Dutch, but the route should be the same in Spanish).

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Centuur -- 12/21/2020 2:50:58 PM >

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Peter

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 5

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/21/2020 2:56:53 PM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
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Wonderful! will give it a try when the problmem repeats...

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 6

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 1:04:55 AM

kerog

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/23/2013
Status: offline

Ah, good point about the cost-effectiveness of conquering Norway. I hadn't really thought about that.

It has indeed been many years since I was a big WIF player - back in high school in the '80s. Started before Planes in Flames, played again some in grad school.

Some other questions about strategy...

Looking through the alignment rules, it seems like it makes it very hard to do anything other than the historical approach to the axis minors if you intend to attack the USSR at some point. I'm interested though in the fact that the Soviets must use their movement actions for the Chines communists. Does that make it worth it for Finland or Rumania to fight if Russia makes its claims, figuring that if the Japanese are putting a lot of pressure on the communists in the North the Soviets won't have enough actions to fight on both fronts? Maybe a stretch...

As I look at it I would tend to only press the claim to Bessarabia. How long does the Soviet player usually wait to do this?

Also, it seems like with 3HQ in France, the CW can make it really hard for the Germans to conquer it, even with the multiple offensives. What, if anything, keeps them from making such a massive commitment?

(in reply to Courtenay)

Post #: 7

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 2:31:23 AM

kerog

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Joined: 12/23/2013
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And thanks for pointing me to the charts on the production multiples. I was reading the "Rules as Coded" and it wasn't clear from that.

Also curious to hear the pros and cons regarding CW declaring war on Italy vs. the opposite. I'm thinking if the Italian fleet ever ventures out to accomplish something meaningful it's worth it, but otherwise wait for Italy to declare war?

(in reply to kerog)

Post #: 8

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 1:18:56 PM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kerog

Ah, good point about the cost-effectiveness of conquering Norway. I hadn't really thought about that.

It has indeed been many years since I was a big WIF player - back in high school in the '80s. Started before Planes in Flames, played again some in grad school.

Some other questions about strategy...

Looking through the alignment rules, it seems like it makes it very hard to do anything other than the historical approach to the axis minors if you intend to attack the USSR at some point. I'm interested though in the fact that the Soviets must use their movement actions for the Chines communists. Does that make it worth it for Finland or Rumania to fight if Russia makes its claims, figuring that if the Japanese are putting a lot of pressure on the communists in the North the Soviets won't have enough actions to fight on both fronts? Maybe a stretch...

As I look at it I would tend to only press the claim to Bessarabia. How long does the Soviet player usually wait to do this?

Also, it seems like with 3HQ in France, the CW can make it really hard for the Germans to conquer it, even with the multiple offensives. What, if anything, keeps them from making such a massive commitment?

Yes, and if the GE finally takes Norway it needs to garrison it against partisans (at least). Plus a roll for american entry chit.

Well, the USSR army at the beginning of the game is very small but the limit of combineds is really frustrating. However, they have units enough to crack the Rumanians which cannnot present a serious front, while the GE player is busy in POL and FR. And the CHCOM don't really need to move often, with a small area to cover and only 4 units in all.

I stuff the Romanian border with every USSR unit I can put together (except for a crappy one to claim eastern poland and the siberians) and all the aviation. I claim it when he is seriously committed in Poland and garrisoning against France. Later I bring some siberians and send everyone to the north to claim Finland borderlands, in WIF from Leningrad and the offmap, and here across the european size hexes, easier. PARA are a good build for this moment.

In my experience the JA rarely declares war to USSR , having their hands full with China and reinforcing islands, but I heard all kind of strategies, including Persia attacks by USSR or JA. That's one of the good points of the game, IMO.

Usually everyone condedes Finland and Romania. However I was once almost able to surrender Finland, and couldnt finally because of a misinterpretation of the rules of the off-map, so it's not so clear always. If the GE gets overconfident, things can get scary, yes.

Well, 3 HQs in France... I guess you are speaking of French (2) and British (1). The truth is that HQs cant do anything when the GE war machine starts blowing apart the thin initial french corps line or even if reinforced, the quality of the French units and the fact that many hexes are open ground for panzer, who easily blitz french units away (retreat or to the production circle, when not destroyed), and if there was a difficult moment, for that they have got offensive chits. France is doomed in 1940 unless the GE player is novice, regardless of the level of the French player. Unless a France genial player and a continued bad luck of the GE player in climate and rolls.

The Brits can only occuply efficiently one hex with one HQ. That's why I sometimes send the Egyptian one, to be able to have a second stack in the front line. Two hexes CAN make a difference with a bit of luck, to resist till winter and then possibly 1941. However, this weakens Egyipt and leaves me few response capability in Egypt, Greece and Yugo, till I am able to bring more units.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 12/22/2020 1:38:27 PM >

(in reply to kerog)

Post #: 9

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 1:31:51 PM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kerog

And thanks for pointing me to the charts on the production multiples. I was reading the "Rules as Coded" and it wasn't clear from that.

Also curious to hear the pros and cons regarding CW declaring war on Italy vs. the opposite. I'm thinking if the Italian fleet ever ventures out to accomplish something meaningful it's worth it, but otherwise wait for Italy to declare war?

No problem-

I cannot see any advantage in the UK declaring war to IT, except some surprise to portstrike La Specia with CVPs, and it's not enough by far. Plus you lose USA entry chits. It can make some sense as well to avoid being surprised so that they can not try something in Gibraltar or Malta (and in the board game, send their frogmen to Gibraltar or Alexandria for your Med fleet. But again, not enough.

IN the case of Italy I would prefer to declare to France and not to CW because this way you can press in the South border with naval support, and attack their colonies. Only when France is weakened and the French fleet almost out of the equation you may declare war to UK and look for a weak point in Gibraltar, Malta or more probably Egypt, with the troops that you may have transported to libya, as well as your air force. It's very difficult to cut their supply but it could be possible with JA help. Of course there is the american entry, but that wouldn't be as big problem as the CW because the CW can't lose more than all their chits (and the dynamic of the war may lead to that) but to the Axis 1 more chit or 2 wont change too much the turn the american will come to war.

Anyway, there are better strategysts than me in the forum, this is just what I believe.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 12/22/2020 1:32:48 PM >

(in reply to kerog)

Post #: 10

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 2:03:51 PM

Courtenay

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Joined: 11/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Courtenay, could you explain a little how can I do this: "you can flail at your computer using window commands to do windows" , I honestly don�t know how to do it and it seems quite interesting, can you give an example?

Windows has a plethora of commands that bring windows forward and back: Alt-Tab, Window-Tab, sometimes cntl-Tab, plus the window key alone. Sometimes one of these will work. Sometimes not. That is why I said "flailing". I hit Windows with every window control command I can think of, and sometimes one of them works.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 11

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 2:17:52 PM

Courtenay

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Joined: 11/12/2008
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Most Russian players I know grab Bessarabia as quickly as they possibly can. Swing a cavalry unit through southern Poland into the Carpathians and the Rumanians can't keep the Russians out their country. And usually the Axis will not fight for Bessarabia because horrible things will often happen to their oil.

Finland is another matter. I always fight as the Germans. There is nothing the Russians can gain there that is worth two US entry chits. And it is not an easy fight for the Russians. I personally don't try for Finland as the Russians.

The British won't put three HQs in France because, unless they advance build Alexander, they won't have three HQs until the campaign is more or less over. So does the CW send two HQs? Gort always goes. The question is Wavell. If he is in France, what is holding Egypt?
I don't know whether it is a good idea to send Wavell or not. The CW is NOT blessed with an overabundance of troops at the start of the game. Putting them all in France leaves other areas vulnerable.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to Courtenay)

Post #: 12

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 6:24:08 PM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

Most Russian players I know grab Bessarabia as quickly as they possibly can. Swing a cavalry unit through southern Poland into the Carpathians and the Rumanians can't keep the Russians out their country. And usually the Axis will not fight for Bessarabia because horrible things will often happen to their oil.

Finland is another matter. I always fight as the Germans. There is nothing the Russians can gain there that is worth two US entry chits. And it is not an easy fight for the Russians. I personally don't try for Finland as the Russians.

The British won't put three HQs in France because, unless they advance build Alexander, they won't have three HQs until the campaign is more or less over. So does the CW send two HQs? Gort always goes. The question is Wavell. If he is in France, what is holding Egypt?
I don't know whether it is a good idea to send Wavell or not. The CW is NOT blessed with an overabundance of troops at the start of the game. Putting them all in France leaves other areas vulnerable.

I believe it's not 2 chits, and what you can get is, if the GE gives it, you get the borderlands, and he loses 1 resource. If he doesnt he loses 1 resource and if you are lucky (as you say, it is difficult) you can conquer Finland and this helps enormously in the coming war.

Edit: It's a 70% of possibilities of 1 chit.

If the GE sends enough Peacekeapers you cannot do it but he may be very busy in France for example... That said, I always fight for it as GE as well, you need to be very bad player or have very bad luck to lose.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 12/22/2020 8:18:00 PM >

(in reply to Courtenay)

Post #: 13

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 9:19:09 PM

Orm

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From: Sweden
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USSR DOW Finland is -18 as a US Entry Action so it is most often two US entry chits lost.

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RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 12/22/2020 9:36:08 PM

Joseignacio

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From: Madrid, Spain
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You both are right. I checked (hence the edition) before saying what I said but I mistook it with Italy, of which I had been writing about too.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 12/22/2020 9:37:45 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 1/18/2021 4:58:48 AM

kerog

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Joined: 12/23/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Well, the USSR army at the beginning of the game is very small but the limit of combineds is really frustrating. However, they have units enough to crack the Rumanians which cannnot present a serious front, while the GE player is busy in POL and FR. And the CHCOM don't really need to move often, with a small area to cover and only 4 units in all.

I stuff the Romanian border with every USSR unit I can put together (except for a crappy one to claim eastern poland and the siberians) and all the aviation. I claim it when he is seriously committed in Poland and garrisoning against France. Later I bring some siberians and send everyone to the north to claim Finland borderlands, in WIF from Leningrad and the offmap, and here across the european size hexes, easier. PARA are a good build for this moment.

Well, 3 HQs in France... I guess you are speaking of French (2) and British (1). The truth is that HQs cant do anything when the GE war machine starts blowing apart the thin initial french corps line or even if reinforced, the quality of the French units and the fact that many hexes are open ground for panzer, who easily blitz french units away (retreat or to the production circle, when not destroyed), and if there was a difficult moment, for that they have got offensive chits. France is doomed in 1940 unless the GE player is novice, regardless of the level of the French player. Unless a France genial player and a continued bad luck of the GE player in climate and rolls.

The Brits can only occuply efficiently one hex with one HQ. That's why I sometimes send the Egyptian one, to be able to have a second stack in the front line. Two hexes CAN make a difference with a bit of luck, to resist till winter and then possibly 1941. However, this weakens Egyipt and leaves me few response capability in Egypt, Greece and Yugo, till I am able to bring more units.

You get Gort, Wavell, and then Alexander in like June, right? Italy doesn't seem likely to do anything super-effective in Africa while the French fleet is still in play, so the risk there doesn't seem great. If you can keep France from falling during the summer doesn't that throw a huge monkey-wrench into Axis plans?

With regard to Bessarabia, if you do it right away then the Germans can align Hungary and maybe Bulgaria, right? Otherwise they have to wait until they can declare war on Yugoslavia. Seems like that early alignment for Germany more than offsets the resource.

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 16

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 1/18/2021 8:47:34 AM

Angeldust2

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Yes, if you would manage to keep France in the game over the summer of 1940 with the help of three CW HQ + units in France, you would slow down the German schedules considerably. But even such an over-commitment might not be enough to keep France alive forever and probably Italy would be not deterred enough by the French fleet to not try and conquer Suez.

I think, your idea to not claim Bessarabia by SU in order to avoid an early alignment of Hungary by Germany might not always work out as advantagous for the Allies. You should just try it out in a game, I would be willing to be your punching ball as Axis.

So up for a trial by combat

?

Consider it a challenge placed!

< Message edited by Angeldust2 -- 1/18/2021 9:18:45 AM >

(in reply to kerog)

Post #: 17

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 1/18/2021 11:01:06 AM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kerog

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Well, the USSR army at the beginning of the game is very small but the limit of combineds is really frustrating. However, they have units enough to crack the Rumanians which cannnot present a serious front, while the GE player is busy in POL and FR. And the CHCOM don't really need to move often, with a small area to cover and only 4 units in all.

I stuff the Romanian border with every USSR unit I can put together (except for a crappy one to claim eastern poland and the siberians) and all the aviation. I claim it when he is seriously committed in Poland and garrisoning against France. Later I bring some siberians and send everyone to the north to claim Finland borderlands, in WIF from Leningrad and the offmap, and here across the european size hexes, easier. PARA are a good build for this moment.

Well, 3 HQs in France... I guess you are speaking of French (2) and British (1). The truth is that HQs cant do anything when the GE war machine starts blowing apart the thin initial french corps line or even if reinforced, the quality of the French units and the fact that many hexes are open ground for panzer, who easily blitz french units away (retreat or to the production circle, when not destroyed), and if there was a difficult moment, for that they have got offensive chits. France is doomed in 1940 unless the GE player is novice, regardless of the level of the French player. Unless a France genial player and a continued bad luck of the GE player in climate and rolls.

The Brits can only occuply efficiently one hex with one HQ. That's why I sometimes send the Egyptian one, to be able to have a second stack in the front line. Two hexes CAN make a difference with a bit of luck, to resist till winter and then possibly 1941. However, this weakens Egyipt and leaves me few response capability in Egypt, Greece and Yugo, till I am able to bring more units.

You get Gort, Wavell, and then Alexander in like June, right? Italy doesn't seem likely to do anything super-effective in Africa while the French fleet is still in play, so the risk there doesn't seem great. If you can keep France from falling during the summer doesn't that throw a huge monkey-wrench into Axis plans?

With regard to Bessarabia, if you do it right away then the Germans can align Hungary and maybe Bulgaria, right? Otherwise they have to wait until they can declare war on Yugoslavia. Seems like that early alignment for Germany more than offsets the resource.

You only get Gort and Wavell, at least in Global Campaign. Alexander may be constructed with the 1940 pool. but it would come (to England) in June so you can deploy in J/A along with more corps, but by then GE should be close to Paris.

It would be great but maybe too late and that considering you want and can build everything you want to send to France. Alexander will need corps. Of course you need as well pilots for your planes in reserve, repairs for your ships, strat bombers for GE factories, and so on. This, however is a minor inconvenient because preserving France one more year is too much and advantage, so I would mainly refer to the previous paragraph.

Also, I have been able to defend France past summer 40 (and with the winter difficulting opperations it means at least till spring 41) with 2 BEF , Gort and Wavell. this depends on the rolls as well, of course.

As for Egypt, I would agree, except in the case that the IT declares war only to UK, after having transferred most of his land and air units to Lybia. In this case, lack of supply + disorganization can combine for an easy Egypty fall if there is not an HQ for emergency supply purposes. Remember Egypt is not a home country (like India, SA, ...) so supply depends on sea control.

At my current game I have 2 BEF and Alexander is coming as you say but I may send him to Egypt. I have sent to Egypt, as well, some UK militia and divisions I can dispose of, because it's quality is not good enough for France.

You are right about alignment of Bessarabia. However the later you align these countries the more units you get, you deploy everything is in the pool with the right year so more years more free units. It's good to align them as late as possible unless there are special circumstances.

As for the extra factories and resources, GE doesnt need more factories at the early years and the HU resource they get it anyway through the Trade agreement the game starts with. You'd only get the Bulgarian one as an extra (anyway the ROM ones you are already receiving them 3, 2 for GE and 1 for IT).

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/18/2021 11:27:36 AM >

(in reply to kerog)

Post #: 18

RE: Various questions from a newbie to MWIF - 1/18/2021 3:35:08 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
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And don't forget that you lose a Soviet resource for any minor you align to the Axis side. That in itself is pretty damaging to the Axis war effort. The Soviets can put those resources in their factories.

Personally, I would always allow the claim for Bessarabia when I play the Axis. You don't want to see the precious oil fields attacked by the Soviet airforce again and again, especially in an oil game. Don't forget: only Rumanian FTR's can intercept STRAT bomb missions in Rumania. If I play the Soviets, I would be very happy to get a land unit in Rumania and send the big bombers in every turn (and even reorganise them and send them again). The Soviets have enough air actions in a combined action to do so.

The Finnish borderlands, now that's a whole different story.

Sending Wavell to France is a good action, if the Italians haven't got a good setup on the Lybian - Egyptian border. If they have he has to stay in Egypt, until the Sydney MIL arrives.

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 19