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Perplexing supply issue

 
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Perplexing supply issue - 1/22/2021 2:42:02 PM   
arvcran2

 

Posts: 2170
Joined: 12/11/2020
Status: offline 		Almost all my units including ones in my capital all have a black lower left box indicating no supplies received.

Looking at my 'current Pts' I see many available logistic points.
Used Pts is virtually nil. What am I missing here?
Post #: 1
RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/22/2021 2:46:43 PM   
LeoMPanther

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/15/2020
Status: offline 		Well, let's troubleshoot
-Did you have the supplies requested available in the SHQ?
-Did you run out of Fuel or Power that might've reduced you logistics network from functioning correctly?
-Are there any bottlenecks?
-Did you place any traffic signs that now restrict your logistics flow?

(in reply to arvcran2)
Post #: 2
RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/22/2021 3:08:08 PM   
arvcran2

 

Posts: 2170
Joined: 12/11/2020
Status: offline 		no to all :) ... like I mentioned perplexing ... turn after everything was resolved

(in reply to LeoMPanther)
Post #: 3
RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/22/2021 5:15:08 PM   
AgentFransis

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 1/10/2021
Status: offline 		Could just be a bug.
If you load the autosave you can check on some unit by clicking on the supplies icon and there will be a note telling you why it has supply issues.

(in reply to arvcran2)
Post #: 4
RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/23/2021 9:29:12 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: arvcran2

no to all :) ... like I mentioned perplexing ... turn after everything was resolved

One important rule about the Economy: Only stuff in Storage when you hit End Turn is availible for next turns consumption. Production and retreival is only of use for next turn and can hide from you that you actually dropped to 0.
The order is roughly:
- SHQ has storage from before hitting end-turn
- SHQ delivers stuff to Zones
- SHQ delivers stuff to Units
- Consumption happens
- Production happens
- SHQ retreives stuff for next turn
- SHQ sends out replacements

That means you can totally drop ot 0 while handing up stuff, but will end up with more then 0 when you are back in control.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 1/23/2021 9:52:28 AM >

(in reply to arvcran2)
Post #: 5
RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 3:59:28 AM   
arvcran2

 

Posts: 2170
Joined: 12/11/2020
Status: offline 		Excellent info zgrssd!

Yet more complexity to consider ;)!

I have another issue with my understanding of the logistical controls:

Since logistics is bi-directional *and* there is push and pull. The controls are simply inadequate! Unless of course I am missing something.

  • A can push to B
  • B can push to A
  • B can pull from A
  • A can pull from B

    Hence four distinct 'directions of logistics flow'!

    So, when I create a Truck stop, for example, how does that help my SHQ if it is on a spine of logistical four flow?

    How is the 800 logistical points spread or what priorities are there by default?

    Are the 800 logistical points only good up to an SHQ or do they continue beyond it?

    Are the 800 logistical points only good up to a city or do they continue beyond it?

    Can 2 or more truck stops on different spines (or threads, or roads/rails/paveways) cumulate at the point of intersection, namely an SHQ, or city?

    (in reply to zgrssd)
    • Post #: 6
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 5:28:58 AM   
    redrum68

     

    Posts: 1202
    Joined: 11/26/2017
    Status: offline     		So the short answer to most of your questions is use the logistics preview mode to view what logistics points are projected. Some attempted responses:

    How is the 800 logistical points spread or what priorities are there by default?
    - They are spread across all roads leaving the city based on the pull points in each direction and then the rest divided evenly across the roads

    Are the 800 logistical points only good up to an SHQ or do they continue beyond it?
    - Beyond, they project out as far as the roads/rails go or until they run out from usage or distance

    Are the 800 logistical points only good up to a city or do they continue beyond it?
    - Beyond, same as above

    Can 2 or more truck stops on different spines (or threads, or roads/rails/paveways) cumulate at the point of intersection, namely an SHQ, or city?
    - Any number of trucks stops or rail stations can send logistics points to a given hex and they are additive on any hex

    (in reply to arvcran2)
    Post #: 7
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 5:49:44 AM   
    arvcran2

     

    Posts: 2170
    Joined: 12/11/2020
    Status: offline     		Redrum68 !

    I should clarify the 1st question by 'spread' I meant divided by, in priority, pulls and pushes of units, zones, and producers? If that makes any sense.
    I am not sure how to differentiate a pull from a push other than who or what is the initiator.

    The traffic stop has pseudo (incomplete) debug info (because actual resource source/destinations are omitted - <purpose>).

    < Message edited by arvcran2 -- 1/24/2021 5:52:00 AM >

    (in reply to redrum68)
    Post #: 8
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 5:56:14 AM   
    redrum68

     

    Posts: 1202
    Joined: 11/26/2017
    Status: offline     		My understanding is all "pull points" whether they are units/zones/custom are all treated equally from a weight stand point. In addition to the logistics system itself, you can also put limits in your SHQ on what percentage of the points can be used for each phase as zgrssd mentioned above. I'm not really sure what you mean by pull vs push. I believe the way it works is it tries to meet all the pull points for each phase it goes through and if logistics points remain after all the phases then it divides them equally in all directions at each intersection.

    (in reply to arvcran2)
    Post #: 9
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 6:23:07 AM   
    arvcran2

     

    Posts: 2170
    Joined: 12/11/2020
    Status: offline     		Again for responses!

    I am trying to glean a comprehensive understanding of the complex mechanics being implemented, and am trying to place definitions in my mind as to the terms used by the game documentation and names.

    This is why I am using the terms pull and push.

    From what I gather, is a pull, is defined in logistical terms as the request for a resource from the oposit(sp?) direction that the requestor would need to travel to, to get that resource.

    So I gather a push could be sending to an unrequested entity destination.
    It could also be interpreted as a pull, but from the perspective of the replier servicing the requestor.

    I hope it is clearly defined and not ambiguous.

    (in reply to redrum68)
    Post #: 10
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 6:29:11 AM   
    arvcran2

     

    Posts: 2170
    Joined: 12/11/2020
    Status: offline     		Also on the subject of ambiguity; there is reference to sending extra stock to the SHQ, by this I assume it means the implied or delegated ZONE's SHQ.
    At first I thought it meant sending to the "1st SHQ" I.E. the Regime's stockpile.

    (in reply to arvcran2)
    Post #: 11
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 6:51:58 AM   
    arvcran2

     

    Posts: 2170
    Joined: 12/11/2020
    Status: offline     		Hey redrum68! Manual section 5.11.1.6 states refocusing rules ... looks like logistical points are degraded!

    (in reply to arvcran2)
    Post #: 12
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 7:21:02 AM   
    arvcran2

     

    Posts: 2170
    Joined: 12/11/2020
    Status: offline     		I believe my issue is to do with excessive branching.

    There are at lease 9 branches, and I think the "deprication" happens clockwise.

    My Capital has a private Hub, I built a truck station on a road due east within 2 Hexes, and a truck station on a road south-west within 3 hexes.

    Private sector roads are all over the place! Anyway my North West road branch from Capital only has 7 starting logistical Points!!!!

    It's amazing how 2000 logistical points can vanish! I'm looking at the auto pull side of things now, looks like demand is high ;).

    (in reply to arvcran2)
    Post #: 13
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 3:29:27 PM   
    redrum68

     

    Posts: 1202
    Joined: 11/26/2017
    Status: offline     		The general guidance is to avoid too many branches and try to make your network more like long snakes than say a tree with lots of branching. You generally want to focus on building and upgrading truck stations in your cities especially your capital which will have your SHQ.

    (in reply to arvcran2)
    Post #: 14
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/24/2021 10:33:02 PM   
    zgrssd

     

    Posts: 3385
    Joined: 6/9/2020
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: arvcran2

    Also on the subject of ambiguity; there is reference to sending extra stock to the SHQ, by this I assume it means the implied or delegated ZONE's SHQ.
    At first I thought it meant sending to the "1st SHQ" I.E. the Regime's stockpile.

    The SHQ is not a "Regime Stockpile".
    Only Credits, Political and Fate points are truly Regime level. While usually you keep it at 1 SHQ, it is still not quite Regime level.

    Zones only try to keep 1 turn of consumption (2 for food) in storage. Any excess is labeled as "for SHQ, Self Pickup only".
    Any Storage Capacity they do not need for the consumption or unretreived excess, they will also send to the SHQ.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: arvcran2

    Hey redrum68! Manual section 5.11.1.6 states refocusing rules ... looks like logistical points are degraded!

    Logistics points run the full way as long as the AP are not used up.
    And then trail off until 2x the AP are used up.

    Refocussing resets the AP, but after too much refocussing there is still a drop off (so nothing goes on forever). It is a real issue if you place Logistics assets very clsoe to each other, but in normal use it should be a pure bonus.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: arvcran2

    I believe my issue is to do with excessive branching.

    There are at lease 9 branches, and I think the "deprication" happens clockwise.

    My Capital has a private Hub, I built a truck station on a road due east within 2 Hexes, and a truck station on a road south-west within 3 hexes.

    Private sector roads are all over the place! Anyway my North West road branch from Capital only has 7 starting logistical Points!!!!

    It's amazing how 2000 logistical points can vanish! I'm looking at the auto pull side of things now, looks like demand is high ;).

    I try to keep my main Aorta roads free of any branches. Maybe the odd one going for 2 different cities.
    If there is something I need to connect to the city and it is right next to the aorta road - I build a seperate road from the cityin most of the cases.
    If you dislike the roads that the private economy builds, you can build a proper road and delete the old one. Really helps with keeping things clear.

    I attached a low res Screenshot if my routing. Note the Zoezdelp, Newkirk, Reashase, Pollocl and Syringa assets.
    The Ruby asset is Privately build, so the Road is suboptimal. But as the alternative would have to go through mountains, I am unsure if I should replace it.




    Attachment (1)

    (in reply to arvcran2)
    Post #: 15
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/25/2021 6:36:22 AM   
    BlueTemplar


    Posts: 887
    Joined: 4/29/2010
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: zgrssd

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: arvcran2

    Also on the subject of ambiguity; there is reference to sending extra stock to the SHQ, by this I assume it means the implied or delegated ZONE's SHQ.
    At first I thought it meant sending to the "1st SHQ" I.E. the Regime's stockpile.

    The SHQ is not a "Regime Stockpile".
    Only Credits, Political and Fate points are truly Regime level. While usually you keep it at 1 SHQ, it is still not quite Regime level.

    Zones only try to keep 1 turn of consumption (2 for food) in storage. Any excess is labeled as "for SHQ, Self Pickup only".
    Any Storage Capacity they do not need for the consumption or unretreived excess, they will also send to the SHQ.


    Looks like you have to be careful : if you have item consumption higher than ZONE storage (and I guess also more item production in the zone than ZONE storage ?), you can end up with wasted items !




    Attachment (1)

    (in reply to zgrssd)
    Post #: 16
    RE: Perplexing supply issue - 1/25/2021 6:39:32 AM   
    BlueTemplar


    Posts: 887
    Joined: 4/29/2010
    Status: offline     		And your SHQ won't even notify you about the waste in that zone that depends on it; since it' not SHQ's own storage that had waste :

    (I don't remember, is SHQ not-sold items waste featured in the Urgent Issues Overview too ?)




    Attachment (1)

    (in reply to BlueTemplar)
    Post #: 17
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