Surface interdiction against carrier group

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Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/24/2021 9:07:39 PM

MorningDew

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Had a surface interdiction from 5 hexes away against a carrier group (with two carriers actually) and the carrier group was hit hard - air units from the carrier group have ZERO impact.

Should the carrier group defend with air? Seems questionable to me as a result. Ultimately, means a carrier group with a range of 5 hexes can't get within airstrike range without being attacked first by the surface units. Something feels wrong about the air units having no impact.

Are there any good examples of a large surface engagement against carriers where the air units didn't inflict significant losses on the surface fleet?

In my opinion, a better mechanic for this kind of interdiction would be to have the air attack, then have the surface battle. The air should have some impact.

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< Message edited by MorningDew -- 1/24/2021 9:09:23 PM >

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 11:40:30 AM

MorningDew

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At a minimum, perhaps the carrier air range should be 1 more than the surface interdiction range so there is a way for a carrier group to attack a surface group by air without first being attacked on the surface.

(Or am I missing something?)

< Message edited by MorningDew -- 1/25/2021 11:43:59 AM >

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 2:36:42 PM

AlvaroSousa

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The formula accounts for a CV group and there is a far less chance of interdiction.

I added some flavor text to reflect this.

Otherwise is just says "it missed"

It is done this way so it doesnt give any indication of what type of fleet either player has.

2 instances that I know of where a surface fleet caught a CV fleet in the open.

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Creator Kraken Studios
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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 3:00:51 PM

MorningDew

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I just ran a small test in Sept 1939 and moved German fleet into middle of North Sea, then moved British carriers within 5 hexes in the open ocean. Intercepted them 4 out of 5 times.

Feels too frequent.

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 3:15:59 PM

baloo7777

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I am pretty sure the 1942 Battle of the Coral Sea, where no enemy naval vessels sighted each other by eyesight during the battle, and all naval losses came from Aircraft Carriers, set the stage for the Pacific War. Though non-Aircraft Carrier TFs met in battle (Solomons, Leyte gulf), the vast enemy naval damage/sunk vessels came from Carrier or land-based aircraft or submarines. Only on the Destroyer level and PT Boats were there many close engagements (daylight and nighttime).
I hope you make the interdiction of Carrier fleets by non-Carrier fleets almost non-existent in the Pacific Theater game.

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 3:50:51 PM

MorningDew

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I think it should be almost non-existent in the European game too - how often did that occur? In fact, I almost wonder if it should be the opposite of surface naval interdiction. Should there be a potential option for a retreat?

It is one thing if a player moved a surface fleet and is interdicted.

The inability to move a carrier fleet into striking range without having high odds of a surface battle doesn't feel right.

< Message edited by MorningDew -- 1/25/2021 3:53:45 PM >

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 4:46:14 PM

ncc1701e

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Don't worry MorningDew, on the next turn, my Italian navy will be destroyed.

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 5:14:08 PM

stjeand

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Two times that I am aware of....

And the funny part is...it was the HMS Glorious. It was sunk by the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
Yours was just sunk by the Italians.

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 5:25:36 PM

MorningDew

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

Two times that I am aware of....

And the funny part is...it was the HMS Glorious. It was sunk by the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
Yours was just sunk by the Italians.

Quite ironic.

But I still think the mechanic makes the likelihood too frequent. Not sure I will want to get carriers in air range of surface fleets as it stands - which doesn't seem right.

< Message edited by MorningDew -- 1/25/2021 5:26:52 PM >

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 6:18:28 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Don't confuse an attempted interdiction with a surface combat interdiction.

I ran the test 10x and not once did the surface fleet find the CV fleet. It did try to interdict and failed.

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Post #: 10

RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 6:50:18 PM

MorningDew

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I ran it 5 times and had a battle with losses four times.

On German turn, moved German fleet into North Sea. On UK turn, move UK fleet within 5 hexes and 4/5 times I have the Germans initiate a surface battle.

< Message edited by MorningDew -- 1/25/2021 6:53:56 PM >

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 7:57:39 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Something you are doing different. I stayed 4-5 hexes away each time. This is a carrier fleet vs a German surface.

If you get in their face yes their chance goes up.

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- Map Image Importer SC3

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 8:17:37 PM

MorningDew

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Here is another example that just occurred - 5 hexes away. Italians surface interdict a UK Carrier fleet moving. So far this is 100% in the Med in this game.

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 8:21:43 PM

MorningDew

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Don't worry MorningDew, on the next turn, my Italian navy will be destroyed.

Nope - I decided to run a test instead:) And had the same interception results.

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 9:10:48 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Is this Beta or official?

The beta notes might include a change on interception CV vs Surface

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Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

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Post #: 15

RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 10:38:38 PM

MorningDew

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Most recent beta.

I didn't see anything relevant in a reach on "CV" and "carrier" in the beta notes.

< Message edited by MorningDew -- 1/25/2021 11:05:30 PM >

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RE: Surface interdiction against carrier group - 1/25/2021 11:19:33 PM

ago1000

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This is just a shot in the dark here, folks I believe this was a change made a while back ago regarding transport attacks. Does this effect the spot number for CVs? (That is is the spot number 5 or 7 now????-makes a big difference)