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Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 1:21:32 PM   
Podolano


Posts: 35
Joined: 5/25/2020
From: Sao Paulo Brazil
Status: offline 		Hi All,

I’ve been playing Scen #1 against the Jap AI.
It’s Nov 1943.

Upon checking the Allied Production, one question came to note regarding the Production mechanics:

Does bringing in Resources from different places to a Production site affect the Production itself? Or does the game mechs treat Resources as a “single entity” and it doesn’t matter where do they come from?

Thanks in advance!

Felipe
Post #: 1
RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 1:25:41 PM   
Yaab


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From: Poland
Status: offline 		Resources are universal - they are a single entity.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 2:04:36 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Resources are universal - they are a single entity.

Yeah, like supply, abstracted resources lumps together coal, iron ore, rubber tree sap, cows, sows and grain, etc. so no matter where you get them you fill whatever need industry has to produce the abstracted "supply".

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 2:32:06 PM   
Podolano


Posts: 35
Joined: 5/25/2020
From: Sao Paulo Brazil
Status: offline 		Thanks for bringing clarity to this question, guys!

As always:




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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 2:54:15 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Without providing all the details, you do not need to move any Resources as Allies. You are wasting your time doing so. You should only be moving supplies and fuel, period.

(I realize there are limited areas it might make sense on the map, but for simplicity sake for a new player, I think the best thing is to just forget it as Allies)

Totally different story for Japan

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 3:07:20 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		About the only place that needs resources is Oahu and you can get some from Hilo. It is a good place to learn how to set up the CS convoy system. If you ever play Japan, you will need to know how to do that as efficiently as is possible.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 3:22:45 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		NZ can also use some additional resources. Noumea and Suva have some. The trade off is fuel for the ships - if you have been able to bring lots of fuel to NZ but it is struggling with supply, it is worthwhile to bring some resources. The extra supply they generate helps with building better bases and filling out unit TOEs.
The USA tends to be busy with keeping Australia in the war early on so NZ has to make do.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 3:32:40 PM   
Sardaukar


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Status: offline 		AFAIK Tasmania has extra resources, so can transport them to mainland and NZ. Also Hilo in Hawaiian Islands, can get them to PH.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 1/25/2021 3:33:18 PM >

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 9:57:44 PM   
Ian R

 

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Status: offline 		There are some other extra resources on the west coast of Australia that have to be shipped to be used, but basically, they are surplus to requirements.

There is one thing produced by allied industry that is needed - HI points - it is needed for "invisible" pilot training in the training pool. It is also needed for on-map aircraft production @18 pts per air frame.

If anyone says "you can just turn off all HI in Australia and India off to save fuel", ignore them, they are wrong, that is something which requires careful calculation and management. See Alfred's post #11 in the following thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4386199&mpage=1&key=allied%2Cheavy%2Cindustry�

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 10:18:48 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		Shutting off the HI production also shuts off the supply generation.

Early on in a campaign game, get all of the possible fuel that you safely can out of the DEI to Australia then any excess oil as well. There are refineries in Australia but not enough oil production there. But Abadan does provide oil which eventually can be shipped to Australia if a player wants to do so.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 10:24:55 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		For Allies, though, unless it's a very short run run (like from Hilo), you'll find that moving resources is not worth the fuel burn.

You have some limits to tanker capacity, so it's much better to not burn that fuel moving RESOURCES, which convert to Supplies on a 15-1 ratio. That's not very efficient use of cargo space.

The US produces unlimited amounts of supplies; it's much more efficient to just move it from there, IMO

Anyway, unless you are really detailed Allied player, I would recommend just forgetting resources and OIL, particularly if you're new like the OP; too many other things to worry about!

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 10:31:56 PM   
Nomad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

There are some other extra resources on the west coast of Australia that have to be shipped to be used, but basically, they are surplus to requirements.

There is one thing produced by allied industry that is needed - HI points - it is needed for "invisible" pilot training in the training pool. It is also needed for on-map aircraft production @18 pts per air frame.

If anyone says "you can just turn off all HI in Australia and India off to save fuel", ignore them, they are wrong, that is something which requires careful calculation and management. See Alfred's post #11 in the following thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4386199&mpage=1&key=allied%2Cheavy%2Cindustry�


I am playing Allies in a scenario 2 game. We are at Feb 1944. I have had HI turned off in Australia and NZ since day 2 of the war. I have over 5.3 million HI banked. I see no need to turn on those HI factories.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 1/25/2021 10:34:17 PM >

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 10:41:35 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

There are some other extra resources on the west coast of Australia that have to be shipped to be used, but basically, they are surplus to requirements.

There is one thing produced by allied industry that is needed - HI points - it is needed for "invisible" pilot training in the training pool. It is also needed for on-map aircraft production @18 pts per air frame.

If anyone says "you can just turn off all HI in Australia and India off to save fuel", ignore them, they are wrong, that is something which requires careful calculation and management. See Alfred's post #11 in the following thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4386199&mpage=1&key=allied%2Cheavy%2Cindustry�


I am playing Allies in a scenario 2 game. We are at Feb 1944. I have had HI turned off in Australia and NZ since day 2 of the war. I have over 5.3 million HI banked. I see no need to turn on those HI factories.


Let us know when your on-map aircraft production really ramps up.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 1/25/2021 10:48:16 PM >

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 10:50:07 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

There are some other extra resources on the west coast of Australia that have to be shipped to be used, but basically, they are surplus to requirements.

There is one thing produced by allied industry that is needed - HI points - it is needed for "invisible" pilot training in the training pool. It is also needed for on-map aircraft production @18 pts per air frame.

If anyone says "you can just turn off all HI in Australia and India off to save fuel", ignore them, they are wrong, that is something which requires careful calculation and management. See Alfred's post #11 in the following thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4386199&mpage=1&key=allied%2Cheavy%2Cindustry�


I am playing Allies in a scenario 2 game. We are at Feb 1944. I have had HI turned off in Australia and NZ since day 2 of the war. I have over 5.3 million HI banked. I see no need to turn on those HI factories.


You should read Alfred's post #23 in the linked thread. [Edit: removed reference to allegation training command pilot training costs HI points for the allied player, in the same way as it does the Japanese]



< Message edited by Ian R -- 1/26/2021 2:09:36 AM >

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/25/2021 11:15:34 PM   
Nomad


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From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		As far as I can tell, there is no Allied Tracom pilot training cost. My HI should have taken a big hit in the two highlighted time frames if it is so.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 12:02:18 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		You could be right.

I saw a post by someone who alleged Alfred said, that like the Japanese, Allied 'off map' pilot training costs HI points. I haven't found a post from Alfred where he said that.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 1:39:16 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

You could be right.

I saw a post by someone who alleged Alfred said, that like the Japanese, Allied 'off map' pilot training costs HI points. I haven't found a post from Alfred where he said that.


I wouldn't waste any further time and effort in continuing the search.

There is a certain similarity between the thread you linked with the various comments by me re Allied consumption of HI points for building aircraft, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's, "The Hound of the Baskervilles".

Alfred

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 1:48:27 AM   
Nomad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

You could be right.

I saw a post by someone who alleged Alfred said, that like the Japanese, Allied 'off map' pilot training costs HI points. I haven't found a post from Alfred where he said that.


I would be helpful if you edited your post #14 in this thread to reflect this so there is no confusion.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 2:26:37 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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Status: offline 		I have bumped the other thread where the question arose recently, it being not precisely on point in this one.

In the meantime, I suggest you restart your non-US HI production, lest you find later that you have strayed too far from the beaten track, and into a mire of quicksand.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 2:32:40 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
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From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		The way I look at it is:

I have 5,300,000 + HI now.
It is February 1944. There is about 18 months left to the game at a maximum.
5,3000,000 / 18( HI per aircraft ) = 294,000+ aircraft. I doubt I will be producing that
many in the 18 months I have left.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 6:00:55 PM   
RhinoDad


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Status: offline 		Sorry for asking a question that has been asked but I think I am getting conflicting messages.

In order for on map production should one be shipping resources to Australia and New Zealand from off rail sources such as Port Headland, Tanzania, Noumea, Etc.? It appears that they would have sufficient resources if you do so, but short if you do not.


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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 6:09:14 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		Port Headland, Hobart, and Noumea produce excess resources. Ship themout if it is safe to do so. Hobart may be your safest bet.

Tanzania is off map in Afrika.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 6:37:28 PM   
RhinoDad


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Status: offline 		Sorry, Tasmania.

Is it required to get the on map production? Or as some have said not needed for allied side.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 6:47:44 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		Hobart is the major port in Tasmania.

Just keep an eye on the resource levels. If you have a TF drop supplies and troops at Noumea, it does not take that much time to load it with resources then take them elsewhere. You can load APs and AGs with resources if there is a cargo (AK type) ship in the TF. It does not matter about civilian or military types either.

It is a good habit to get into for when you play the Japanese side. Even if you only want to play as Allies against an opponent, it is good to know the Japanese strengths and weaknesses, transportation of resources, fuel, oil, and supplies is a delicate balance in some cases for the Japanese.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 7:39:51 PM   
RhinoDad


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Status: offline 		As Allied player I tend to have excess xAKs, TKs sitting about as possible replacements so thought I would just have CS convoys making the run. But if for some reason I did need the AKs, did not want to pull them off and find a sticky situation down the road of delayed on map production. Although I realize it is a game not a simulation I tend to play historical where I can even though the game mechanics do not require it and so for that reason would lean towards making the runs.

But I do like to be aware of game mechanics where I can, hence the question.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 8:28:49 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		You should not have excess tankers, they should be hauling fuel to establish the stockpiles that you need later as well as feeding the Australian and New Zealand Heavy Industry.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 8:48:20 PM   
Nomad


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From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		I have never run into any problem with resources in Australia. It takes a few days for the AI to get things moving, but then everything seems to get plenty of resources with no problem.

And yes to RangerJoe, the Allied player should have every xAK and TK in motion moving supplies forward. You will need a lot of supply and fuel in 1944 and 1945 and you will struggle to move
all you need in 1944 and 1945 without some stockpiles built up in forward countries/Islands.

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 9:51:07 PM   
RhinoDad


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Status: offline 		Probably not, but at this time and during most games through '43 at least supply stockpiles (Supply, Fuel) growing in India, Australia, New Zealand, and Indonesia as long as that lasts. Hopefully, obvious with Indonesia it is supply not fuel stockpiles growing.

As need increases I usually up the supply(fuel, Supply) moving. Like to see a very slow increase in supply stockpiles in key areas. It has gotten pretty tight at times but mainly I always have several stashes as reserves in case the need arises.

Now with return trips a part of CS convoys it has almost halved my freighter load. Or at least my time needed to manage them. So probably about 30% increase in efficiency.

Think if I turned the whole fleet lose I would end up with no ship reserves and begin to perhaps get spoilage. Or if somehow I suddenly needed more would have less flexibility.

< Message edited by RhinoDad -- 1/26/2021 10:06:47 PM >

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Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

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RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 10:05:46 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		You can stockpile supplies and fuel at Cape Town with no danger from the Japanese and then move them onto the map later. You can also load Panama with supplies and fuel for the ships that come in there to load. Sydney and Auckland can hold all of the supplies and fuel that you can haul there with no spoilage. The supplies for SWPAC offensives need to be built up so you don't have to wait for them to arrive. The same thing with Auckland for SOPAC. You can build up other island bases in Hawaii other than Oahu so each one can hold all of the supply needed along with the specific troops for invading in CentPac instead of clogging Oahu with units. Oahu can hold the supply for the supply only convoys.

Build up Prince Rupert and then, if it is safe to do so, haul supplies forward for any NorPac bases and future operations. The base forces with engineers from the interior of Big Canada Land can be used for this. Little Canada Land is not on the map.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 29
RE: Different Resources affect Allied production? - 1/26/2021 10:14:49 PM   
RhinoDad


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Status: offline 		Probably the best idea.

I was just tending to move them into more forward areas like Australia, NZ, etc. that would be handy but not too far from the action.

Somewhat like the historical war zone, non war zone. Then bridge from non war zone to close by war zone when needed.

Run transportation algorithms from (Have - Nearby - Need) to try to get most efficiency from ships. Not too many empty return trips. Love that new feature, and that ships follow their waypoints, and do not transport to far off places, etc.

< Message edited by RhinoDad -- 1/26/2021 10:15:26 PM >

_____________________________

Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

Success is how you bounce on the bottom

Experience is a comb life gives us after we have lost our hair

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