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Japanese production: how to get NEI production.

 
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Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/8/2021 9:29:00 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		I have spent more than 10 hours seeing 4 times the production video, reading the part of the rules and practicing, and some others trying not to have a heart attack while I keep doing mends in the stupid routes the computer makes while it worsens the other when recomputing (and yes, there were enough convoys for what I was trying to do).

I am keeping investigating a bit more with my CW issues. By now I can get 20 resources out of 21 so I am not getting crazy but it irks me. And worries me in case eventually the GE subs make some conv rebase and make it even worse.

Now, however, I want to ask about my opponents problem. He has some problems to upload files at the moment, so I am posting on his behalf.

He has organized the JA convs, which is nothing that should not be too complex, and he has set them correctly but he cannot get the resources from NEI even though he has enough convoys in both seas. We believe it could be a problem with the trade agreement somehow, else we cannot imagine what can it be.








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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/8/2021 9:30:10 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		Another one




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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/8/2021 9:37:22 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		And my file of the partisan draw, previous to Production. Is it enough or maybe you still need his?

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< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/8/2021 9:38:09 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/8/2021 9:54:20 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Without looking at the saved game, I can guess what the problem is.

There is a resource in Hainan that needs a convoy to get to Japan.

The map shows that the Axis also controls French IndoChina. There is a non-oil resource there that needs to go through the South China Sea.

It's also possible that a southern Chinese non-oil resource controlled by Japan needs a convoy to get back to Japan.

The program gives priority to sending non-oil to factories (since they cannot be saved). Check to see what resources are going through the South China Sea. That most likely is the bottleneck.


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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/9/2021 1:06:56 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		will check, thx

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/9/2021 3:57:25 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		If the Axis controls Fr Indo China then the allies control Japan. 50 shades of grey.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 1/9/2021 3:58:18 AM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/9/2021 11:47:10 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		I have not checked that already buy AFAIK that has not happened yet, I am not aware of that and if I am not wrong it could only be possible by peaceful means once there is a Vichy, which is not the case yet.

Edit: Dont know how the color code goes in those maps but in truth, France still controls Indo China.

Didn't undertand Paul's earlier comment but he is right, it looks to me that in that production map Japan doesn't control it either. Siam, yes, it seems to be aligned but has no resource.




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< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/9/2021 1:11:46 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/9/2021 1:31:39 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		I have observed that my opponent has sent the manchurian resources to Japan. He probably (I cannot see it) has all his factories in Japan busy and maybe there is some ruling (or a bug) that the lent resources, like those from NEI cannot be sent to factories in Manchuria...

Just guessing

Edit: Nope, he sends 7 resources trhough the China sea (another 8th must probbaly go through somewhere else (although I cannot guess where, since only the NEI resources need transport at the time, the one from Hainan being able to cross the strait ...).
Plus he gets 4 from USA, plus he produces 4 (7 + 1 from Hainan -4 to Japan) in China, Korea and Manchuria, plus the 1 from Japan this makes 16, ok with the summary.

This means that in Japan 7 + 4 + 1 = 12 factories are busy, from 14.

It simply doesnt seem to accept that there is a Trade agreement with NEI, because there are enough CONV and enough factories in Home Japan to receive them.



< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/9/2021 2:43:10 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/10/2021 1:56:59 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		The Hainan resource has to be convoyed, even if just to Canton. The strait is no good without a rail line.

Maybe the traded oil resources have not been allocated to be saved or produced at a factory?

I'll try to take a look at the saved game you posted, but don't have time this evening.


< Message edited by paulderynck -- 1/10/2021 2:05:14 AM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/10/2021 4:49:58 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		I think he tinkered a bit trying to do so, I am not sure he was allowed to, by the game.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/10/2021 4:51:31 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/17/2021 8:41:01 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The Hainan resource has to be convoyed, even if just to Canton. The strait is no good without a rail line.

Maybe the traded oil resources have not been allocated to be saved or produced at a factory?

I'll try to take a look at the saved game you posted, but don't have time this evening.



Sorry to remind it... we are still at the same point. We don't know if we did something wrong or the program is not working properly or was disconfigured about the Trade Agreement with NEI.

It's kind of strange, beacause he has enough conv to carry all the resources, we checked that the USA resources enter through the Japan Coast, not with a nonsense turn through China Sea or anything,

Then, at China Sea he has 7 resources to transport plus 3 more coming from South China Sea, which need to cross China Sea as well. But he has 10, so he has enough in any case.

And when I check my view of his convoys ,I see that he has got 10 in China Sea (busy) but none of them is idle, and however only 7 resources cross that sea when you click on it (according to what my opponent says).

we are puzzled.

EDIT: In the image I embed, there are only 9 convoys at the moment, but all the same there should be enough to get 7 resources from China sea + 2 more from South China Sea area, (Tarakan, Balipakan or Hainan). And in the previous one, from earlier, he has 10.






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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/17/2021 8:57:03 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		Maybe it has to do with the fact that he is sending 6 from his 7 Chinese (3)+Manchurian (3)+ Korean(1) resources to Japan, so he is only leaving 1 from Manchuria and possibly one from Hainan to the Chinese and Manchurian factories and the NEI resources cannot reach a Japan factory for production purposes (and we cannot save oil in this game)? I think those resources need to reach Japan no any japanese controlled factory in China or Korea...

Something seems to be pretty *****d up, because I can see only 14 resources reaching to his factories, and only one to Mukden (manchuria) but the summary says there are two factories working there, just an example.






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< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/17/2021 9:30:57 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/18/2021 8:33:14 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Seems no matter what I try with the two NEI oils, I get a message saying I don't control the country receiving them. Perhaps this has to do with me changing the game from Netplay to Solitaire so I could try and work with it.

Those two oil don't show up in the CW preliminary production plan so I can't try to send the Palembang ones. It looks like there should be enough convoys.

When you play NetPlay, is the Axis player getting an error message if he selects one of those oils and then clicks on "Produce" in the top list, or on "Where to" in the bottom list?

PS: Another strange thing is if you click on Trade Agreements, it shows Balikpapan going to be saved in Mukden which should be impossible because you have the oil resources option turned off. It even has a route defined going to Port Arthur. And if you click on Balikpapan in Summary view but change it to Route view, you see the route. But if you are already in route view and click on Balikpapan, no routing info appears.

I would agree there is something here that is very f*****d up.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 1/18/2021 8:56:04 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/20/2021 12:26:34 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		I started a simultaneous new game with another player and this time I am Japanese.

I get this message, which may help to understand the problem (?). It seems the Netherlands oil agreement is not enforced by the game although it appears in the list of working trade agreements, and so it doesn't let me as a JA player save or produce these resources because "You do not control the country that is receiving this resource as part of a trade agreement. Therefore you cannot specify its destination or its use."




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< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/20/2021 12:35:54 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/20/2021 12:44:18 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		There is this problem as well, the screen shows 21 (10+11) non-oil resources but I only get 18. I guess those are the Swedish ones but they dont appear as "idle" o "no path". Besides, not being at war with USSR they could come through neutrals, Finland USSR Romania, ... This is the image of the 10 "received" from which I only get 7.




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< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/20/2021 12:45:27 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/20/2021 2:22:51 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		in this case i ordered the two usa oils to be saved and i cannot see them being saved but i can see 12 non oil being burnt and a total of 14 pps. The question is whether they are from NEI or USA.





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< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/20/2021 3:19:15 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/20/2021 3:23:52 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		And however, I had 4 oil at start (if I recall well the initial setup) and spent 2 , now after 1st turn I have 6 so 4 were saved, which should mean the USA oil + nei oil. I am clueless.

Edit: It seems I didnt do well the oil assignment and did not restore any unit, so there are there the 4 original and 2 more oil only, 2 oil keep on being missed.






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< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/20/2021 8:01:53 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/20/2021 10:36:23 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		Ok, I think the mystery is solved.

It's a form bug, the form doesnt show the information correctly (resources not appearing as received and convoys supposedly not carrying), although the resource effectively arrives to JA .

In the second turn production it's clearer, for some reason now apppears in the form the resource from Balikpapan, which wasnt in the form the turn before and is set to production. The rest is all the same but I produce exactly the same than before, it would look like I had to produce one more pp...

So I checked again and saw that I am really managing 16 resources, 14 are being produced and 2 saved, the problem is that the form is showing only 14 in all in the first copy and 15 in the second.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

in this case i ordered the two usa oils to be saved and i cannot see them being saved but i can see 12 non oil being burnt and a total of 14 pps. The question is whether they are from NEI or USA.










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< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/20/2021 11:14:13 PM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/21/2021 8:39:05 AM   
Andres71

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 9/13/2020
Status: offline 		Seems that all axis´s trade agreements with minor countries are wrong or not in efect. I realise that none of them appears in the production summary. Here the german production without the Swedish and romanians resources.





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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/21/2021 8:41:39 AM   
Andres71

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 9/13/2020
Status: offline 		Here the Italian production without the romanian oil resource.





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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/22/2021 7:34:54 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Reply to Andres' posts.

I need a saved game to see what is happening here. In order to comment on what you report, I have a dozen or more questions, which I could answer myself by looking at a saved game.

Reply to Jose

The save game you posted is from the Allied player's copy of the game. That prevents me (and others) from analyzing it because the problems you report concern the Axis player's routing of resources.

===

In general, I think the root cause might be because you are not using the oil rules (OFF), yet do have saving oil and build points ON. The game seems to be handling the US oil points being saved, but having trouble enabling the player to manually set what happens to the NEI oil.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/23/2021 4:46:44 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		From testing Jose's game and from the other problem reports, it looks to me that there is a bug in the newest version that affects trade agreements with minors. Those with majors work because there is player involvement to both send and receive. If you are a receiving major and the sender is a minor, you get an error message ("you do not control the receiving country") when trying to direct what to do with received resources.

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/23/2021 7:13:39 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

From testing Jose's game and from the other problem reports, it looks to me that there is a bug in the newest version that affects trade agreements with minors. Those with majors work because there is player involvement to both send and receive. If you are a receiving major and the sender is a minor, you get an error message ("you do not control the receiving country") when trying to direct what to do with received resources.

Paul, do you have a saved game where I can see this problem occur?

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 23
RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/24/2021 2:30:24 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
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Status: offline 		Yes. Here is the file from Jose's post #3 after I changed it to Solitaire and progressed it to preliminary production planning.

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/26/2021 3:37:40 AM   
Tetchyy

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Yes. Here is the file from Jose's post #3 after I changed it to Solitaire and progressed it to preliminary production planning.


I can confirm this.

Examining the trade agreements chart behind the button on the production planning window reveals no origin location for the oil traded for either the JP or CW agreements (Same issue applies to the Venezuelan oil BTW).

In my game JP has sufficient Convoys present to transport the oil but no amount of fenagling or any combination of button pushes gets it to a factory. On the other hand if you look at the Rumanian oil in the same file you will see that it DOES have origin location and thus seems to be shipping just fine.

~Nelson

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/26/2021 3:40:44 AM   
Tetchyy

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline 		Netherlands oil...




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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/26/2021 3:41:43 AM   
Tetchyy

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline 		Rumanian oil.....






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< Message edited by Tetchyy -- 1/26/2021 3:49:11 AM >

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RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/27/2021 7:52:36 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Yes. Here is the file from Jose's post #3 after I changed it to Solitaire and progressed it to preliminary production planning.

Thank you.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 28
RE: Japanese production: how to get NEI production. - 1/28/2021 5:21:17 PM   
Andres71

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 9/13/2020
Status: offline 		Sorry for delay.

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