Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Just wondering

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Just wondering Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Just wondering - 1/27/2021 10:06:26 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Recently a PBEM opponent of mine (he's the Japanese Player) sent a turn of his to me and then an hour later sent a second copy of the same turn. In explanation he said he had had more thoughts on his response to my turn and he asked if I'd be terribly upset if I used the second one that he had sent instead of the first one. In the end I used the second one but a question occurred to me: does this change the random number used in resolution of the current turn or does it change the random number used during the following turn? Or does the random number just stay the same?
Post #: 1
RE: Just wondering - 1/27/2021 10:08:14 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Any change should change the random number.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to spence)
Post #: 2
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 12:20:09 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Right, but does it change the random number for the current turn (the Allied Player replay) or for the next turn (Japanese Player turn)?

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 3
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 12:39:51 AM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline 		I indirectly tested this while trying to get better results for my Turn 1 Japan , most of the time changes only effected changed units but sometimes changing stuff like putting more squadrons to training completely changed the results of everything for better or worse. Point is your opponent cant actually do things in a certain way to give himself better RNG. So it shouldnt effect you badly

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 4
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 1:15:38 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Right, but does it change the random number for the current turn (the Allied Player replay) or for the next turn (Japanese Player turn)?


The seed is different. The results may, or may not be, better than the previous turn resolution.

My money is on something happening in the turn resolution which your opponent did not like and he is hoping it doesn't reoccur. This is one reason why I don't support mulligans.

Alfred

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 5
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 1:59:39 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Is this not the turn process:

Japanese player watches previous turn resolution, enters his orders, sends turn to allied player.

Allied player watches previous turn resolution, enters his orders, sends turn to japanese player.

Thus when either player sends a second copy of a turn in which they changed their orders, it does not change the previous turn's resolution (the one both watched), only the next turn's resolution - which that player has yet to see.


EDIT: WITPQS wrote the correct sequence as I remember it in a post below.


< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 1/28/2021 4:48:06 AM >

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 6
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 2:00:42 AM   
Randy Stead


Posts: 454
Joined: 12/23/2000
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		I had a Betty raid on turn1 in the Guadalcanal scenario on Rockhampton, where there were no fighters. Just for giggles I reloaded and sent some fighters there set to CAP and reloaded. No raid. Might be something in the code or script that affects such things, but I know nothing about programming so can't say.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 7
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 2:04:07 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

I had a Betty raid on turn1 in the Guadalcanal scenario on Rockhampton, where there were no fighters. Just for giggles I reloaded and sent some fighters there set to CAP and reloaded. No raid. Might be something in the code or script that affects such things, but I know nothing about programming so can't say.



AI games do not use the same turn process as PBEM.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Randy Stead)
Post #: 8
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 2:14:44 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

I had a Betty raid on turn1 in the Guadalcanal scenario on Rockhampton, where there were no fighters. Just for giggles I reloaded and sent some fighters there set to CAP and reloaded. No raid. Might be something in the code or script that affects such things, but I know nothing about programming so can't say.


Has to do with air superiority. If you watch the turn playing out you'll see some such scroll past. Might just be for AI games, don't know. What's happened is that based on air superiority the Betty unit failed a 'die roll' and didn't attack as a result. Keeps units from walking into slaughter, sometimes.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 1/28/2021 2:15:22 AM >

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Randy Stead)
Post #: 9
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 3:10:48 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Right, but does it change the random number for the current turn (the Allied Player replay) or for the next turn (Japanese Player turn)?


The seed is different. The results may, or may not be, better than the previous turn resolution.

My money is on something happening in the turn resolution which your opponent did not like and he is hoping it doesn't reoccur. This is one reason why I don't support mulligans.

Alfred

I think this is incorrect (if I accurately understood the answer). The process in my own words:

1) Japan player runs turn resolution for turn X. This step generates the replay file for the Allies player and the turn file for the next turn.
2) Japan player enters orders for turn X+1.
3) Japan players sends replay for turn X and turn file for turn X+1 to Allies player.
4) Allies player runs replay for turn X.
5) Allies player enters orders for turn X+1.
6) Allies player send turn file for turn X+1 to Japan player.
7) Japan player runs turn resolution for turn X+1.

As you can see, your opponent carried out step 2 (enter orders) for turn X+1, then step 3 (send the turn X+1 and the replay turn X to you).

He later had second thoughts about the orders he gave and made some changes, in effect re-doing step 2 (enter orders), after which he sent you the 'new' turn file for turn X+1.

Your opponent doesn't know what the outcome of turn X+1 will look like. So, yes, the seed number will change but for his benefit or not he doesn't know.

Note: Turn 1 historical might be different, but I think you indicated this is in the middle of a game.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 10
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 7:28:48 AM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Right, but does it change the random number for the current turn (the Allied Player replay) or for the next turn (Japanese Player turn)?


The seed is different. The results may, or may not be, better than the previous turn resolution.

My money is on something happening in the turn resolution which your opponent did not like and he is hoping it doesn't reoccur. This is one reason why I don't support mulligans.

Alfred

But how would the J player test the effected changes before the A player can finish his orders ? Moreover, anything the latter does may further change the seed for the coming resolution, ever a mere transfer of a squadron to another nearby base.

Spence, the way I understand your question, is that your opponent sent you the second file before you sent back the first one, right ? So, he had no way to know how the turn would resolve.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 11
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 7:46:39 AM   
travicl1

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I think this is incorrect (if I accurately understood the answer). The process in my own words:

1) Japan player runs turn resolution for turn X. This step generates the replay file for the Allies player and the turn file for the next turn.
2) Japan player enters orders for turn X+1.
3) Japan players sends replay for turn X and turn file for turn X+1 to Allies player.
4) Allies player runs replay for turn X.
5) Allies player enters orders for turn X+1.
6) Allies player send turn file for turn X+1 to Japan player.
7) Japan player runs turn resolution for turn X+1.

As you can see, your opponent carried out step 2 (enter orders) for turn X+1, then step 3 (send the turn X+1 and the replay turn X to you).

He later had second thoughts about the orders he gave and made some changes, in effect re-doing step 2 (enter orders), after which he sent you the 'new' turn file for turn X+1.

Your opponent doesn't know what the outcome of turn X+1 will look like. So, yes, the seed number will change but for his benefit or not he doesn't know.

Note: Turn 1 historical might be different, but I think you indicated this is in the middle of a game.


I'm the opponent in question. This is exactly what happened. There's no way I can see something happening in the turn resolution without the Allied orders. And the previous turn resolution is already concluded by the time the Japanese player begins new orders. For the record I simply left a bombardment TF to remain on station rather than retiring, caught it and fixed it before receiving new Allied orders.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 12
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 3:36:32 PM   
Randy Stead


Posts: 454
Joined: 12/23/2000
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

I had a Betty raid on turn1 in the Guadalcanal scenario on Rockhampton, where there were no fighters. Just for giggles I reloaded and sent some fighters there set to CAP and reloaded. No raid. Might be something in the code or script that affects such things, but I know nothing about programming so can't say.


Has to do with air superiority. If you watch the turn playing out you'll see some such scroll past. Might just be for AI games, don't know. What's happened is that based on air superiority the Betty unit failed a 'die roll' and didn't attack as a result. Keeps units from walking into slaughter, sometimes.


Interesting, did not know that. I try to watch the words but sometimes they go by so fast. Is there a record in the game where you can review such messages?

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 13
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 4:51:20 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		The operations report button at the top of your game screen lists most of those messages.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Randy Stead)
Post #: 14
RE: Just wondering - 1/28/2021 8:07:06 PM   
Randy Stead


Posts: 454
Joined: 12/23/2000
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks, BK. I'm making it a habit to check it every turn now.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 15
RE: Just wondering - 1/29/2021 5:09:27 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I try to watch the words but sometimes they go by so fast.


The speed of those messages may be changed in the preferences. You really don't need to slow them down too much to read most.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Randy Stead)
Post #: 16
RE: Just wondering - 1/29/2021 7:59:25 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Operations report is useful, but there is also text file Combat Events that will cover the rest.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 17
RE: Just wondering - 1/29/2021 1:32:01 PM   
RhinoDad


Posts: 221
Joined: 12/22/2020
Status: offline 		Sometimes it seems a ship will just sink. I am unable to find it on operations, sigint, combat reports. Only mention will be Ship name and sunk, no how or why. Beginning of turn just fine no damage, in TF in Port going nowhere. During turn still going nowhere a message pops up saying it sunk usually near housecleaning stuff near end of turn. Now I admit I have been know to miss things on occasion but this has happened a bit too many times for me to think that I am always missing it.

Figure hit mine, enemy scout action, some ammo touched off, or something maybe??? No message, no combat shown or reported at port hex but within range of Japanese scouts.

So it seems not everything can be discerned from the reports, but they are useful. You really need to take the time to watch the turn play out as well as listen to the audio clues.

_____________________________

Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

Success is how you bounce on the bottom

Experience is a comb life gives us after we have lost our hair

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 18
RE: Just wondering - 1/29/2021 1:46:07 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I had a ship sink because the Resources it was hauling caught on fire. Those were some damned hot rubbers!

Edit: Just make sure that you use the Kentucky Jelly and not the Ben Gay or Icy Hot!

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 1/29/2021 1:47:37 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RhinoDad)
Post #: 19
RE: Just wondering - 1/29/2021 1:50:56 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		Hit a flock of mermaids maybe....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

"Do everything you ask of those you command"....Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 20
RE: Just wondering - 1/29/2021 1:52:25 PM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RhinoDad

Sometimes it seems a ship will just sink. I am unable to find it on operations, sigint, combat reports. Only mention will be Ship name and sunk, no how or why. Beginning of turn just fine no damage, in TF in Port going nowhere. During turn still going nowhere a message pops up saying it sunk usually near housecleaning stuff near end of turn. Now I admit I have been know to miss things on occasion but this has happened a bit too many times for me to think that I am always missing it.

Figure hit mine, enemy scout action, some ammo touched off, or something maybe??? No message, no combat shown or reported at port hex but within range of Japanese scouts.

So it seems not everything can be discerned from the reports, but they are useful. You really need to take the time to watch the turn play out as well as listen to the audio clues.

Usually, unexplained damage come from collisions, or bombs from a NavSearch plane, especially if the ship has low experience. Things can go south very quickly when you only have 5 XP...

There are enough info appearing during the turn resolution that it pays to give it all your attention. Even more so during combats : there are many messages there that you can’t find in the reports.

(in reply to RhinoDad)
Post #: 21
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Just wondering Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.445