Explanation of an air combat report

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Explanation of an air combat report

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Explanation of an air combat report - 2/1/2021 6:49:49 PM

ITAKLinus

Posts: 630
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

Hi everyone,

I have a couple of questions for the more experienced people over here.

CASE A - TURN OF 29/03/1944

I have a bunch of LSTs at Kiriwina Island calmly unloading stuff, when our japanese friends come to pay visit.

Interestingly, they attack from 20.000ft with bombs. What's interesting of that is that the guys were set to strike with torpedoes from a well-supplied base, Rabaul, at just 7 hexes.

So, why have they attacked with bombs instead of torpedoes?

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kiriwina Island at 102,131

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 62 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 19

Allied aircraft
Boomerang C-12 x 22
F4U-1A Corsair x 27
F6F-3 Hellcat x 72

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 10 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
LST-39
LST-40
LST-16

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 20000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-33 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(36 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 36 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
VF-38 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(36 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 36 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
VMF-225 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 1000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
VMF-121 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 12 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
VMF-217 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 10 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
No.5 Sqn RAAF with Boomerang C-12 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 22 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 100 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes

CASE B - TURN OF 29/03/1944

Same turn, tricky business near Gasmata.

I sent a bunch of expendable YMS to clear the mines in Gasmata and act as a bait for enemy's dive bombers. LRCAP over my guys should have protected them.

Now, it didn't.

Here the full report:

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Gasmata at 103,128

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 4 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y4 Judy x 51

Allied aircraft
Boomerang C-12 x 14
Kittyhawk IV x 8
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 7
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 10
F4U-1A Corsair x 21
F6F-3 Hellcat x 22

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
YMS-96, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-97, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-291, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-84, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
39 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VMF-225 with F4U-1A Corsair (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 1000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Raid is overhead
VF-33 with F6F-3 Hellcat (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead
VF-38 with F6F-3 Hellcat (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead
VMF-121 with F4U-1A Corsair (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 16000.
Raid is overhead
VMF-217 with F4U-1A Corsair (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead
No.5 Sqn RAAF with Boomerang C-12 (14 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 100 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Raid is overhead
No.75 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IV (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead
49th FG/9th FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead
51st FG/25th FS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead
51st FG/26th FS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead

My understanding is this:

I) there is a good amount of people in the right place and I have a very good amount of "intercepting now" opposite to the usual "not yet engaged". Basically, I have a good chunk of my groups at the right place ad the right moment (still, why for example, the Boomerang are intercepting now if they are at 100ft?).
II) the time-to-target is just 1 minute, so nobody is able to react to the incoming attack even if they are potentially in the position to do so, hence the "raid is overhead" for everyone.
III) the bombers get through without a single shot from my CAP.
IV) the bombers get away without any attempt from the CAP to shot them down after the bombing run.

Am I understanding correctly the reasons behind this amazing performance of my LRCAP or is there something else and things have worked differently?

Moreover, how much has the weather influenced the poor time-to-target detection and subsequent failed engagement? I am wondering whether the pilots at 15,000ft would have had a different performance with a better weather (f.ex. being able to intercept the enemy).

Now, I use LRCAP very rarely because I find them ineffective, but probably I've never really decided to dig into the important factors in running them successfully.

What I am not understanding is the relevant factor in the failed engagement.
Also, why do I have a very good share of "planes intercepting now" even for guys who are at the wrong altitude? Shouldn't they be "not yet engaged"?

I feel I am misinterpreting something and I have always done so for years and thousands of turns

_____________________________

Francesco

Post #: 1

RE: Explanation of an air combat report - 2/1/2021 7:01:21 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

Case A, the altitude was to high....GP

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(in reply to ITAKLinus)

Post #: 2

RE: Explanation of an air combat report - 2/1/2021 7:20:40 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

Case A - Why do you think torps were available that particular turn? You need to do some stuff manually to make them auto-available forever. Also rnd, sometimes they fly with bombs regardless.

Case B - "Estimated time to target is 1 minutes". No radar + bad weather = no warning, fighters did not catch up

(in reply to btd64)

Post #: 3

RE: Explanation of an air combat report - 2/1/2021 7:34:58 PM

ITAKLinus

Posts: 630
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Case A - Why do you think torps were available that particular turn? You need to do some stuff manually to make them auto-available forever. Also rnd, sometimes they fly with bombs regardless.

Case B - "Estimated time to target is 1 minutes". No radar + bad weather = no warning, fighters did not catch up

A) My opponent confirmed. I have played as Japanese until 01/01/1944 in that game and I recall the AirHQ in Rabaul had over 500 torps in it: he has used almost zero so far and the AirHQ is still there. Even if I would decide not to believe him (and I trust him completely), it's quite unlikely he has used the stock present in the base given the air activity from it is basically zero.

B) yeah, I supposed. What I am puzzled about is this: "intercepting now" + no interception at all. Basically, what I understand of the "intercepting now" is the fact that the planes are at the right spot at the right moment. Now:
B.1) why did I have the "intercepting now" for planes out of altitude such as the Boomerangs?
B.2) why nobody tried to shoot at least a bullet to the enemy if they were there?
B.3) with a better weather, would have been different? In line of principle, those who are at 15,000ft should be able to see and engage the enemy.

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 4

RE: Explanation of an air combat report - 2/1/2021 7:47:32 PM

ITAKLinus

Posts: 630
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

As far as I know, there are no problems with high altitude torpedo attacks.

Ratioale being that the torpedo bombers will in any case go down to release the ordnance.

Just one random example:

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to btd64)

Post #: 5

RE: Explanation of an air combat report - 2/2/2021 1:13:11 AM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

For Case A, possible that bombs were picked rather than torpedo's for any number of reasons.

For Case B, the key part is:

Raid spotted at 4 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

50 Judy's appeared out of the rain to whack your YMS. Herein lies the importance of radar.

(in reply to ITAKLinus)

Post #: 6