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A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 4:42:14 AM   
ubwart

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/2/2021
Status: offline 		This has got to be one of the most tedious things and god-awful games I have ever played. It has all of the detail and much more of pacwar and none of the charm. PW had all kinds of tool to let you see where the battles were and so on. Not this dog, you have one battle report thing with 800 reports to wade through after each turn to find your one carrier battle.

Then take into account that carriers are generally not going to attack the other side even with reaction range of 6. No they would rather sit in their base and wait for the enemy to move away and attack your force with a much larger attack than the computer ever seems to mount for my carriers.

I paid 20 or so for it and it is not worth $1. No support no updates and Matrix still wants 79 for this old dog. I would rather pull my teeth via my ass than play this again. PW was about 50 times what this game is worth.
Someone please explain to me how my 3 carriers consistently get their asses kicked by one opfor carrier.


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Post #: 1
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 4:47:03 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Do you see how many posts there are on this forum? Obviously there's five or six legions of players who disagree with you. Go back to tic-tac-toe.

_____________________________



(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 2
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 4:54:39 AM   
ubwart

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/2/2021
Status: offline 		Yea I see how many there are. The game design is awful and the UI is basically nonexistent. It is a truly terrible game. If 500 people think it is great that just means that there are 500 fools out there.

I have been playing matrix games since the place started and SSI for years before that. And this one is the worst I have seen.

< Message edited by ubwart -- 2/2/2021 4:56:01 AM >

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 3
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 5:14:52 AM   
Tigrizzli


Posts: 27
Joined: 3/12/2015
Status: offline 		Long time ago, I bought IL2 because I crashed for my 3 first takeoff with a Bf-109 (cross winds, engine torque, too rude on the commands...etc...). Other flight simulators were so much less realistic s... more like arcade games... This is what proved me its value and makes me love it.

Same with WITPAE, it's because you have to use your brain to get results which make me appreciate it.

.. Of course, you need a brain first...



(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 4
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 6:27:42 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Dude, you are going to receive very heavy flak here for this post (or maybe simple lack of interest);

any how, this game is probably the one with the most populated, and still very active, forum among all of Matrix games, some reasons to that there must be.

You are right to lament the UI, but as you said, there's no rework of the game in sight, so we must do with what we have.

Still, this is the best navy focused (and Pacific war focused in general) game available commercially all over the planet;


(in reply to Tigrizzli)
Post #: 5
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 6:29:25 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ubwart

This has got to be one of the most tedious things and god-awful games I have ever played. It has all of the detail and much more of pacwar and none of the charm. PW had all kinds of tool to let you see where the battles were and so on. Not this dog, you have one battle report thing with 800 reports to wade through after each turn to find your one carrier battle.

Then take into account that carriers are generally not going to attack the other side even with reaction range of 6. No they would rather sit in their base and wait for the enemy to move away and attack your force with a much larger attack than the computer ever seems to mount for my carriers.

I paid 20 or so for it and it is not worth $1. No support no updates and Matrix still wants 79 for this old dog. I would rather pull my teeth via my ass than play this again. PW was about 50 times what this game is worth.
Someone please explain to me how my 3 carriers consistently get their asses kicked by one opfor carrier.



You're 58 days early.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 2/2/2021 6:30:37 AM >

(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 6
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 6:57:19 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ubwart

Yea I see how many there are. The game design is awful and the UI is basically nonexistent. It is a truly terrible game. If 500 people think it is great that just means that there are 500 fools out there.

I have been playing matrix games since the place started and SSI for years before that. And this one is the worst I have seen.


Really! Some game styles do not suit everyone, this is yours. Perhaps its just a little too complicated for you, something simpler maybe.

(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 7
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 7:01:25 AM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline 		I don’t remember how much I paid for this game twelve years ago, but the cost per hour of game time must be far under the cent. And it’s the only game I have played, and still plan to continue playing, twelve (12 !) years after purchasing it. I’m not the only one still playing it after twelve years either, so this should be testament to the quality of the game. That, and the number of posts & threads on this forum, as well as the number of ongoing AAR’s ...

But it’s not a game fo the average teen, gratification is not immediate and the brain is heavily solicited for hundreds of hours to finish one game.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 8
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 8:21:41 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		@ubwart - I have played PacWar for years, then switched to each successor (UV, WitP, WitP-AE) without ever looking back at the older games. It was a gradual transition, but still a steep learning curve. In fact, veteran AE players call going from WitP to AE a learning cliff. If you jump from PacWar straight to AE, you are not facing a learning cliff, you are facing a voyage to a different planet. AE is not worse than PacWar, it's just WAY more complex and you will need to invest a lot of time to master the mechanics. In fact, even veteran players with thousands of AE turns under the belt are still learning. If you feel overwhelmed by AE, then maybe the old adage applies that "If it is too strong, you're too weak!"

Now, if you lose a 3-to-1 carrier fight, you have probably used suboptimal settings, there is probably a huge difference in airframe performance, pilot and ship crew experience, leader stats (air unit and TF leaders), a low detection level of the enemy TF, unlucky weather interference, FOW etc. Wise commanders know the circumstances under which to pick - or decline - a fight.

Concerning "No support no updates", that's simply not true, you just don't know the history of the game. The game has been supported by the publisher and then by a volunteer developper in his spare time for many years after the release, not only for bugfixes but actually adding many new features. I have sold computer games for a living for ten years, and I know no other commercial computer game which has enjoyed such support and updates for such a long time after release and for free.

This game has a strong supporter base for a reason, and the only fool around here might be you.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 2/2/2021 8:22:50 AM >

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to Ambassador)
Post #: 9
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 8:44:42 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ubwart
Someone please explain to me how my 3 carriers consistently get their asses kicked by one opfor carrier.



Sudden Carrier Loss Syndrome is real. Don't worry, you'll get better soon.

Maybe you should not have parked your CVs in your own base, there are penalties for doing that

(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 10
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 10:13:40 AM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I don't really understand what your ruckus is all about.
If you don't like the game, you bought a game that doesn't suit you. I am sure this has happened to everyone here at some point.
Just get over it and play a different game. All sales on Matrix are final so there is sadly no option for refunding.

WITP:AE is loved by a lot of people because of its complexity, but that also means that you need to spend an awful amount of time in simply learning the game.
The game has shortcomings, but the positives things far outweigh the negatives. If you don't like the concept of it, then you have simply bought the wrong game for you.

There is certainly a reason why your carrier battle went the way it went and it is likely that it is your own fault and not the fault of the game.
Also Carrier Battles are brutal in general, this is also true for real life history. Just take a look at the Guadalcanal and Solomon Campaigns or even just Midway.

For a better overview of combat Reports, there is actually a third party tool here on the forum that can help you get a better picture of the wall of Texts that is the Combat and Operations Report.
The Tool comes also with a map, so you can also see with one click where the stuff happened.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 11
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 10:31:26 AM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		A more constructive approach would have been to simply post the combat reports here on the forum and explain the situation, preferably with Screenshots of the map and your Taskforce settings.
There would have been a lot of people here who would have literally jumped from their chairs to help you understand why the results are as they are and how you could have done better.
It is okay to be frustrated at times, but I can assure you that there is always a reason why things happen in the game like they happen.
And the community here is generally very helpful and supportive as long you are polite, respectful and willing to learn.

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 12
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 10:57:17 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline
quote:

No they would rather sit in their base and wait for the enemy to move away and attack your force with a much larger attack than the computer ever seems to mount for my carriers.


GetAssista is right on track:

Manual Page 167/168:

7.2.1.13.2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN BASE HEXES
Air operations by aircraft carriers are limited if the aircraft carrier is in a base hex. Aircraft launching search, CAP or strike Missions from a carrier in a base hex will only launch 50% of the normal amount they would have launched. If the CAP is reinforced by fighters on the ship due to the raid being spotted in time, only 50% of the fighters on the ship will reinforce the CAP.

The reason is that a base hex means landmass which means restricted searoom for maneuvering the carrier, which as you may or may not know was necessary for carrier ops of the day since carriers had to head into the wind in order to conduct flight operations.

Sometimes the good old "RTFM" advice should be heeded. The problem is not the game, but truly terrible reading skills

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 13
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 11:28:48 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		That said. Try checkers. Might be more your speed. Oh by the way, I bought WPO and WITP before AE and I joined the forum just after I bought AE. I had been reading the forum for years and with AE I needed some help and support. I asked all the wrong questions and sometimes a brief spanking. You just joined the forum and broke the rules. Your first few posts should of been questions. Not an attack on something a lot of people love. Think about that for a while....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

"Do everything you ask of those you command"....Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 14
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 11:35:28 AM   
Randy Stead


Posts: 454
Joined: 12/23/2000
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		Truly a waste of breath talking to this guy. I think he has taken his ball and run home, never to return.

(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 15
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 11:40:29 AM   
stretch

 

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
Status: offline 		I love it when people tell us that the thing we love is really awful. Glad you have an opinion ubwart, guess what: we didn't need to hear it. In general, in life, when you hate something that many many other people love, that's fine but consider keeping that to yourself or your close circle of friends (if you have any) that may care about your feelings; because no one here is going to ever ever ever change their mind based on your little ignorant 2nd grade emotional diatribe.


(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 16
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 12:59:24 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Should I be offended given I released updates for scenarios what 6 months ago - so 10 years after release inclduding updated AI scripts...

(in reply to stretch)
Post #: 17
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 2:22:40 PM   
Phoenix100

 

Posts: 2826
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Mmm. Where can I find those updates, Andy, the most recent ones?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 18
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 2:22:49 PM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Should I be offended given I released updates for scenarios what 6 months ago - so 10 years after release inclduding updated AI scripts...

You’re above that. You’re a higher spirit, safe from the petty insults of the crawling cockroaches.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 19
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 3:02:09 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Should I be offended given I released updates for scenarios what 6 months ago - so 10 years after release inclduding updated AI scripts...

You’re above that. You’re a higher spirit, safe from the petty insults of the crawling cockroaches.

Speaking of higher spirit, we could be teaching the OP a bit about patience by ignoring his diatribe about the game and just offering to help change his mind. For starters, I suspect the OP jumped into the Grand Campaign without trying the smaller scenarios to find out how to use the User Interface. Even starting with those simpler scenarios I had to restart them a couple of times to overcome my mistakes in settings and strategy. Persistence will win but it means keeping positive in the face of many failures.

Having said all that, Ubwart, if you are expecting a game with a pedigree running back 15 or more years to show you all the CGI flash of current games, you will never appreciate this brain-expanding monster. Twenty bucks to learn a bit about your preferences is an inexpensive life lesson.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Ambassador)
Post #: 20
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 3:37:54 PM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Should I be offended given I released updates for scenarios what 6 months ago - so 10 years after release inclduding updated AI scripts...

You’re above that. You’re a higher spirit, safe from the petty insults of the crawling cockroaches.

Speaking of higher spirit, we could be teaching the OP a bit about patience by ignoring his diatribe about the game and just offering to help change his mind. For starters, I suspect the OP jumped into the Grand Campaign without trying the smaller scenarios to find out how to use the User Interface. Even starting with those simpler scenarios I had to restart them a couple of times to overcome my mistakes in settings and strategy. Persistence will win but it means keeping positive in the face of many failures.

Having said all that, Ubwart, if you are expecting a game with a pedigree running back 15 or more years to show you all the CGI flash of current games, you will never appreciate this brain-expanding monster. Twenty bucks to learn a bit about your preferences is an inexpensive life lesson.

You might be right.

A word of advice to the new players

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 21
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 3:55:34 PM   
LST Express


Posts: 571
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Putting in the effort has been worthwhile to many of us. Maybe don’t give up so quickly.

(in reply to Ambassador)
Post #: 22
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 4:07:52 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ubwart

This has got to be one of the most tedious things and god-awful games I have ever played. It has all of the detail and much more of pacwar and none of the charm. PW had all kinds of tool to let you see where the battles were and so on. Not this dog, you have one battle report thing with 800 reports to wade through after each turn to find your one carrier battle.

Then take into account that carriers are generally not going to attack the other side even with reaction range of 6. No they would rather sit in their base and wait for the enemy to move away and attack your force with a much larger attack than the computer ever seems to mount for my carriers.

I paid 20 or so for it and it is not worth $1. No support no updates and Matrix still wants 79 for this old dog. I would rather pull my teeth via my ass than play this again. PW was about 50 times what this game is worth.
Someone please explain to me how my 3 carriers consistently get their asses kicked by one opfor carrier.





LMAO

_____________________________


(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 23
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 4:09:54 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		He signed up yesterday, made his two posts and left. I say do not feed the troll.

_____________________________


(in reply to LST Express)
Post #: 24
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 4:53:10 PM   
kbfchicago


Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

He signed up yesterday, made his two posts and left. I say do not feed the troll.


Concur, but there is value here seeing the community's response. If nothing else we reaffirm each others passion for the game.

I for one have spent far more of my time with AE since its release vs. any other computer game, hands down, no question, no doubt reaching many 1000s of hours. Like all things in life it has pros and cons, for me these pluses and minuses tabulate up to highly playable and challenging on many, many levels. It is however not for everyone..and that's ok. I wish him well and hope he can find something that fits him as well as WITP-AE fits us.

Keep Calm and Game On!

Kevin

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 25
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 5:22:38 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ubwart

This has got to be one of the most tedious things and god-awful games I have ever played. It has all of the detail and much more of pacwar and none of the charm. PW had all kinds of tool to let you see where the battles were and so on. Not this dog, you have one battle report thing with 800 reports to wade through after each turn to find your one carrier battle.

Then take into account that carriers are generally not going to attack the other side even with reaction range of 6. No they would rather sit in their base and wait for the enemy to move away and attack your force with a much larger attack than the computer ever seems to mount for my carriers.

I paid 20 or so for it and it is not worth $1. No support no updates and Matrix still wants 79 for this old dog. I would rather pull my teeth via my ass than play this again. PW was about 50 times what this game is worth.
Someone please explain to me how my 3 carriers consistently get their asses kicked by one opfor carrier.



Here's a quarter. Call someone who cares.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 26
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 10:06:50 PM   
Will_L

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: NYC-Queens
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ubwart
Then take into account that carriers are generally not going to attack the other side even with reaction range of 6. No they would rather sit in their base and wait for the enemy to move away and attack your force with a much larger attack than the computer ever seems to mount for my carriers.


Your CV TF won't react unless you set it with a reaction range to either a destination hex with remain on station orders or give it patrol orders with up to three patrol points. If you sit the TF in port with a reaction range it'll simply sit in port. (Please correct me if I got any of this wrong guys.) Maybe you should have checked the forums for advice before you took the plunge into the deep end off the learning cliff, there is plenty to be found.

quote:

I would rather pull my teeth via my ass than play this again.

Please do so, I really wanna see you pull this off.

(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 27
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 11:15:01 PM   
ubwart

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/2/2021
Status: offline 		You gotta use your brain. Son I was one of the original players of the old PW game and even that SW game was better than this. What does this game offer? Every man, unit of clothing and roll of TP in theatre. No easy way to see combat reports, no real reason why my carriers never launch, then I see some kind of political points needed to assign a leader, where does it show my pool? No fing ware. I loved the old games for their complexity but this is just complexity for complexity's sake. with nothing to help make managing a pacific war easier, you really want to scroll through 40 pages of **** to see the one combat report that is important to you? Go right ahead.

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 28
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 11:22:44 PM   
ubwart

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/2/2021
Status: offline 		Wow reaction range wow i never would have thought that i needed to do that. Of course i have RR set to limit but even my SC units don't seem to move in reaction. in fact the only time I have had a surface action is when my SC force with a 3 or 4 RR arebased at midway and the japs sent a fleet. to midway, they were seen but did my ships ever move to intercept not once. So the battle takes place at .... midway not in the sea near midway. PW and UV both reacted correctly.

I remember testing UV about 20 times with the same attack by an american TF against japs. 20 times moving to the same location with exactly the same number of bomb and torp hits. i have no idea how you hard code attacks to come up with the same results each iteration of the game. WITPAE this game is just too tedious and I love sitting for hours working out my plans.

(in reply to ubwart)
Post #: 29
RE: A truly terrible game - 2/2/2021 11:26:42 PM   
ubwart

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/2/2021
Status: offline 		signed up yesterday but played since before MG was a thing. Playtested about 30 games including VfV and uncommon valor. this game is just pile on more useless **** and strip away tool that help you follow the events. Why on earth is there no map view of battles from the previous turn among about 500 other terrible design options.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 30
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