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Running Simulations as a Spectator

 
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Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 6:47:10 PM   
DarthChungus24

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/8/2021
Status: offline 		Hello, 
I am hoping to use the simulator for a research project I am working on regarding the military balance of the Indo-Pacific Region. Would it be possible to use CMO to simulate a conflict between China and The Quad Alliance (India, Japan, Australia, and the United States) without having me command one side in order to have the most realistic outcome of the simulation? Would I be able to easily repeat the simulation 10-20 times so that I could collect data on it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Post #: 1
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 7:41:25 PM   
boogabooga

 

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Joined: 7/18/2018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarthChungus24

Hello, 
I am hoping to use the simulator for a research project I am working on regarding the military balance of the Indo-Pacific Region.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DarthChungus24
Would it be possible to use CMO to simulate a conflict between China and The Quad Alliance (India, Japan, Australia, and the United States) without having me command one side in order to have the most realistic outcome of the simulation?


Depends on what you mean be "having me command one side." The units in CMO don't necessarily start fighting each other all by themselves. They need instructions at some point in the form of missions, scripting, etc. Something to tell the units where to go and what to do. This could be set up during the scenario design phase, but in some sense you are commanding BOTH sides. So yes, you could set up the scenario to a point where the entire conflict is scripted such that further human intervention is unnecessary, but you probably need to get some experience in scenario design to get things to come out how you envision.

quote:


Would I be able to easily repeat the simulation 10-20 times so that I could collect data on it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Yes

(in reply to DarthChungus24)
Post #: 2
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 7:54:37 PM   
DarthChungus24

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/8/2021
Status: offline 		So in order to simulate the conflict would I need to create missions, scripting, etc, for both sides? For a conflict of the scale that I am hoping to research, would that require a very high level of knowledge and experience in developing scenarios?

(in reply to boogabooga)
Post #: 3
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 8:20:14 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Someone has to do it. There are some scenarios that have both sides heavily scripted already. Mostly so the human can play either side. But the scenario designer has to do it. In a scenario without one side preplanned, you, as the player would have to script it out and build the missions.

(in reply to DarthChungus24)
Post #: 4
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 8:28:21 PM   
DarthChungus24

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/8/2021
Status: offline 		If the missions and other actions were scripted out, would the results of the missions be different each time the simulation war run?

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RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 9:17:36 PM   
SeaQueen


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From: Washington D.C.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarthChungus24
If the missions and other actions were scripted out, would the results of the missions be different each time the simulation war run?


Yes, because there are stochastic components to the model as well. The sweet spot for Command in this kind of application is short (12-24 hour) vignettes because the software lacks an autoplanner. The more effort you spend on LUA scripting and creating missions and triggers to support it, the more valid the result you'll get.

(in reply to DarthChungus24)
Post #: 6
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 9:18:24 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I am pretty sure there is always some variation. The results have some detailed calcs, but there are percentages it works with. Just start the game up and look at weapon end results to see.

(in reply to DarthChungus24)
Post #: 7
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 9:21:43 PM   
DarthChungus24

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/8/2021
Status: offline 		For a conflict the size of the one I am hoping to research, how difficult/how long would it take to create the scripting and associated elements?

(in reply to SeaQueen)
Post #: 8
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 10:24:51 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		That is not a small scenario. It will take a while.

B

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RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 10:25:11 PM   
boogabooga

 

Posts: 457
Joined: 7/18/2018
Status: offline 		Time commitment depends on the complexity of the scenario rather than raw unit count. You need to know before you start what the nature of the scenario will be, what the objectives of each side are, their strategies, tactics, etc.

Your idea still sounds a bit too abstract to really comment on, but having said that, building Command scenarios can literally be (and are) someone's full-time job.





(in reply to DarthChungus24)
Post #: 10
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/8/2021 10:38:09 PM   
DarthChungus24

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/8/2021
Status: offline 		Looks like I have some work cut out for me, thanks for all the information!

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Post #: 11
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/9/2021 12:24:22 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
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Status: offline 		DarthChungus24, have you looked into qualifying for the Pro version? That is the true research tool from what I understand.

https://www.warfaresims.com/?p=5076

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(in reply to DarthChungus24)
Post #: 12
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/9/2021 5:06:22 PM   
DarthChungus24

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/8/2021
Status: offline 		I hadn't heard of that, how would I be able to qualify?

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 13
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/9/2021 5:35:31 PM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 167
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarthChungus24

I hadn't heard of that, how would I be able to qualify?


Go here...
Command Professional Edition

LICENSE TIERS
Command-PE is available in several license versions to suit intended user base, feature needs and budgets:

Mil/Gov Edition is a “license upgrade” to commercial CMANO/CMO, and constitutes the ideal choice for government & private-sector organizations that do not require Command-PE’s additional features but wish to employ the commercial CMANO/CMO product for professional use. (Use of the commercial CMANO license in professional context is prohibited by the EULA)

Student Edition is suitable for use by military academies and other teaching/training environments where an affordable, mass-deployed software solution is desirable. It is very similar in feature set to the commercial version of CMANO/CMO but differs in licensing and pricing options.

Academic Edition is suitable for government & private-sector organizations that require Command-PE’s powerful analysis features, but do not need to alter the simulation’s default data & models.

Professional Edition offers the full power of Command-PE to users that need to alter any of the data or models of the Command simulation and integrate it it with their existing modelling, simulation and analysis solutions & workflow.
Per-seat, site-wide and enterprise-wide licensing options are available.

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Post #: 14
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/9/2021 5:51:44 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		btw, it won't help with your exact problem. You'll still have to build a big scenario. But there are tools available to let you do batch runs very quickly.

(in reply to ronmexico111)
Post #: 15
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/9/2021 7:29:52 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Yes, I think its called Monti Carlo which is industry standard for repetitive testing. Not sure it does big stuff like a complex scenario but there are plenty of others with more understanding of than I have.

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Post #: 16
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/9/2021 9:03:32 PM   
DarthChungus24

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/8/2021
Status: offline 		Would the upgraded license make it easier to build the scenario with the tools it provides?

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 17
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/9/2021 9:24:44 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think so, but I would just reach out through the link provided. If you don't qualify got the pro version, it won't matter anyway.

(in reply to DarthChungus24)
Post #: 18
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/9/2021 9:37:03 PM   
SeaQueen


Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarthChungus24
For a conflict the size of the one I am hoping to research, how difficult/how long would it take to create the scripting and associated elements?


That depends on the question. It also depends on you. Have you ever done an M&S warfare study before? What is your experience? I think it's a mistake to think that it's a "simple" or "easy" M&S solution. In order to produce a credible result you need to invest a substantial amount of work and thought. It's not as simple as click and drag for things to really be sensible. It doesn't do your thinking for you. It requires fairly extensive tactical level inputs and extensive testing to achieve anything meaningful. The game is focused on kill chains and the more narrowly scoped your questions are the more enlightening it will be.

(in reply to DarthChungus24)
Post #: 19
RE: Running Simulations as a Spectator - 2/10/2021 12:59:24 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarthChungus24
For a conflict the size of the one I am hoping to research, how difficult/how long would it take to create the scripting and associated elements?


Building scenarios like this for Command:PE clients--or helping them do it themselves--is something I do regularly and I'd allocate a couple of weeks of my time to have this particular scenario done to a high standard (extensive OOB research, customised scripting elements, AI decision frameworks, etc). For a novice, months.

There is also the matter of which questions you are addressing with your research, and what data points will help you address those questions. C:PE primarily differs from Command (retail version) in its data export options. You can mirror some of those using Lua, but external output (without a lot of cut-and-paste from the console) won't be possible. All the time in the world spent making the scenario won't be enough if you can't pull useful data from the simulation.

If this is your first Command scenario, I strongly recommend starting with something smaller and building up. It is very easy to get overwhelmed and lose steam otherwise.

Likewise with Lua scripting; if you've never used Lua or other scripting languages I strongly recommend getting familiar with the event editor and events before moving to Lua. You can do a lot with the event editor alone; Northern Inferno is an excellent DLC set that was built using the event editor without any significant scripting.

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Post #: 20
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