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Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 2:58:47 PM   
RFalvo69


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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline 		https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-official-twitter-account-sparks-debate-over-citys-iconic-pizza/2433799/

I guess not.

They can come to my restaurant when they want. I'll start with a mozzarella, tomato, tuna, onions, porcini mushrooms and rucola topping. Low pizza, BTW, not that marriage cake. Then, if somehow they manage to stay abreast, things will become serious

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RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 3:03:11 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		These people need to visit Naples.

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 2
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 3:30:22 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Define "world".

This has to be like the moms thing: "according to my mom, I am the most handsome man alive...".

re those who add pineapple... firing squad, hanging, rack?

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RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 3:41:51 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		That pizza sounds very good - except for the tuna. I like it but my gout likes it even better.

BTW, do you make a seasoned pork roast called "porketta" that I have eaten elsewhere?



quote:

1 (6-pound) boneless pork butt roast

2 teaspoons salt

2 tablespoons freshly ground black pepper

12 cloves garlic, chopped

1 cup chopped fresh parsley

1/2 cup fennel seeds

1/4 cup olive oil

1 fennel bulb, finely chopped, feather tops saved for garnish


https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/porketta-recipe-1969731

My stepmother used to make it but she grew the fennel for the tops and just used that sometimes. Of course, none of her ancestors came from Italy . . .

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Post #: 4
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 3:44:46 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-official-twitter-account-sparks-debate-over-citys-iconic-pizza/2433799/

I guess not.

They can come to my restaurant when they want. I'll start with a mozzarella, tomato, tuna, onions, porcini mushrooms and rucola topping. Low pizza, BTW, not that marriage cake. Then, if somehow they manage to stay abreast, things will become serious


100% agree. Real Pizza forever.

Just because they say it doesn't make it so.







Attachment (1)

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RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 4:01:51 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Of course, none of her ancestors came from Italy . . .


As long as the recipe is **respected** the rest is irrelevant: you can do it in Papua New Guinea or Uzbekistan. There's of course the problem of the ingredients. This alone makes a replica impossible (unless the ingredients are somehow imported). But 100% respecting the recipe is a bare minimum imo (a cooking fanboy here).

After all, they say the pesto sauce might be the oldest known sauce in the world, dating back to Roman times. The ingredients are like the ones 2.000 years ago? No. And?

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RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 4:16:39 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Of course, none of her ancestors came from Italy . . .


As long as the recipe is **respected** the rest is irrelevant: you can do it in Papua New Guinea or Uzbekistan. There's of course the problem of the ingredients. This alone makes a replica impossible (unless the ingredients are somehow imported). But 100% respecting the recipe is a bare minimum imo (a cooking fanboy here).

After all, they say the pesto sauce might be the oldest known sauce in the world, dating back to Roman times. The ingredients are like the ones 2.000 years ago? No. And?


She was a professional cook and at one time, ran a school lunch kitchen where the children wanted to eat the school lunch. That is unusual. But she did start cooking at an Italian immigrant's restaurant whose family still is in the business.

But there are different seasonings and ways to make it but it is very good, especially shredded and served on a crusty hard roll.

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Post #: 7
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 5:59:55 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

That pizza sounds very good - except for the tuna. I like it but my gout likes it even better.


You can order that pizza and ask for "no tuna". It is still good. Just consider that a good pizza starts with mozzarella cheese and tomato (a classic "Margherita"). The rest of the toppings are optional and some of them are not even related to taste. Rucola (rocket salad), for example, is mostly used to give your pizza a good smell.

Generally speaking, if you suffer from any kind of intolerance just say so, and the "pizzaiolo" will be able to suggest you a good combination of toppings that excludes the ingredients that cause you problems. And of course any medium/large pizzeria will have a number of variants on the menu marked as "safe" for common intolerances, like the intolerance to lactose.

quote:


BTW, do you make a seasoned pork roast called "porketta" that I have eaten elsewhere?


We do (the Italian name is "porchetta" - same pronunciation but Italian hasn't "K" in its alphabet). However, Italy being Italy, that's only the basic ingredient used in a number of regional recipes. For example, this one...

quote:

1 (6-pound) boneless pork butt roast

2 teaspoons salt

2 tablespoons freshly ground black pepper

12 cloves garlic, chopped

1 cup chopped fresh parsley

1/2 cup fennel seeds

1/4 cup olive oil

1 fennel bulb, finely chopped, feather tops saved for garnish


https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/porketta-recipe-1969731


...Is the "basic" porchetta, and a common way to cook it in and around Rome (and everywhere else in Italy, if people like it that way). We do a variant called "Abruzzese" ("from Abruzzi") without fennel and with a more ample variety of aromatic herbs. This is a dish reserved for special occasions, however, because from start to finish it takes 3 hours to cook it. Be also warned that it is an "heavy" dish: add to it roasted potatoes (*) and some good red wine to wash it down, and your body temperature will make the alarms to sound at Chernobyl

(*) A common variant during festivities (Christmas, Easter, New Year Day) is porchetta served with lentils, because it is an Italian belief that lentils bring good luck - specifically money.

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Post #: 8
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 7:14:16 PM   
Zap


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Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		Just read a story today that New Haven Connecticut is the Pizza Capital of America. New York and New Jersey are up in arms about this classification. So I'm guessing there could be an all out war between Pizza fans. Chicago? where did that come from.

< Message edited by Zap -- 2/10/2021 7:17:13 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 7:50:27 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

I've always had the notion to try my favorite foods "in country" - Italian food in Italy - Chinese food in China and so on. Have a feeling it's all been heavily modified from the originating country. I'd put that on my bucket list but I already know that's way out of budget...


Would Italian food at an Italian restaurante in Germany operated by Italians count as the same as Italian food in Italy?

I know that the Indian food that I had in London, England not Ontario, was delicious and I do believe that the staff was Indian as well.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 2/10/2021 7:54:46 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 8:18:21 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

I've always had the notion to try my favorite foods "in country" [...] Have a feeling it's all been heavily modified from the originating country.


Chinese food, definitely. They all sell the standard Ford T. Any color so long as it is black

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RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 8:42:08 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

I've always had the notion to try my favorite foods "in country" - Italian food in Italy - Chinese food in China and so on. Have a feeling it's all been heavily modified from the originating country. I'd put that on my bucket list but I already know that's way out of budget...


Would Italian food at an Italian restaurante in Germany operated by Italians count as the same as Italian food in Italy?

The problem with "Italian food" is that it doesn't exists. It would be more correct to speak about Italian regional food, and, in many cases, Italian provincial food. Consider Lombardy: Milanese food is different than Pavia's food (less than one hour drive south of Milan). And, if you go further south, the Oltrepò wine country's food is even more its own thing (with some recipes partially imported from the Riviera). In Tuscany you find a different kind of cuisine every few kilometres... (I love all of them anyway).

This is why when you go out to eat with your friends here in Italy you still have the choice to go to a "Tuscan" restaurant, or "Roman" restaurant or a variety of other choices. This has nothing to do with the quality of the food or the talent of the owners.

So, an "Italian" restaurant in a foreign country can be, usually, one of these two things: a restaurant with a sort of "best of" from various parts of Italy or a regional restaurant that may or may not advertise itself as such. In Paris I once stumbled into a Sicilian restaurant in a corner on the Rive Gauche, and there is a Roman restaurant on the Champs-Élysées, but most of the time I guess it is easier to label yourself as "Italian" and smile.



_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 12
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 8:43:35 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

I understand that Joe, but it be also a fun way to travel if one was of the deep pocket variety.

Go to Germany for German food, Go to England for English food, go to India for Indian food.

Mind you I live on the space coast in Florida (cheap place to retire) and it's reasonably cosmopolitan, with a pretty decent selection of world cuisine made by folks that immigrated here (mostly).

But if your gonna judge the most authentic pizza, your gonna need to go to Italy, not Chicago.


I think not just Italy for pizza but Naples, Italy not Florida, since that is where it was made for a Queen!

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Post #: 13
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 8:51:09 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

I've always had the notion to try my favorite foods "in country" - Italian food in Italy - Chinese food in China and so on. Have a feeling it's all been heavily modified from the originating country. I'd put that on my bucket list but I already know that's way out of budget...


Would Italian food at an Italian restaurante in Germany operated by Italians count as the same as Italian food in Italy?

The problem with "Italian food" is that it doesn't exists. It would be more correct to speak about Italian regional food, and, in many cases, Italian provincial food. Consider Lombardy: Milanese food is different than Pavia's food (less than one hour drive south of Milan). And, if you go further south, the Oltrepò wine country's food is even more its own thing (with some recipes partially imported from the Riviera). In Tuscany you find a different kind of cuisine every few kilometres... (I love all of them anyway).

This is why when you go out to eat with your friends here in Italy you still have the choice to go to a "Tuscan" restaurant, or "Roman" restaurant or a variety of other choices. This has nothing to do with the quality of the food or the talent of the owners.

So, an "Italian" restaurant in a foreign country can be, usually, one of these two things: a restaurant with a sort of "best of" from various parts of Italy or a regional restaurant that may or may not advertise itself as such. In Paris I once stumbled into a Sicilian restaurant in a corner on the Rive Gauche, and there is a Roman restaurant on the Champs-Élysées, but most of the time I guess it is easier to label yourself as "Italian" and smile.




I that the restaurant was "Roman" due to its name, Alt Roma, plus the fact that it had a female wolf (if I used the proper name for that animal it would probably be blocked) that had two toddlers around it, one reaching up with the mouth to nurse.

But yes, around here there is a Trentini club for people whose ancestors came from that area and I think that would have a more "German/Austrian" influence and use white sauce and butter instead of olive oil and tomatoes.

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Post #: 14
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 9:18:30 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

Ok, I read what you wrote and I understand what you mean. I stand corrected. But it means in my imaginary trip to Italy I'd definitely have to stay longer to sample a good deal of it!


You would have to take a trip all over Italy to sample the delicious regional foods. You could even to to the rural Trieste area to possibly get Sarmas and poticas!

The same with Germany/Austria as well. There are at least five different basic types of bratwurst!

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Post #: 15
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 9:29:20 PM   
RFalvo69


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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

Ok, I read what you wrote and I understand what you mean. I stand corrected. But it means in my imaginary trip to Italy I'd definitely have to stay longer to sample a good deal of it!

There are "food itineraries" for this. You enjoy the art, the culture and the food - and then move on the next leg.

Not a good topic for current times, unfortunately

_____________________________

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"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

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Post #: 16
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 9:38:53 PM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 536
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

I've always had the notion to try my favorite foods "in country" - Italian food in Italy - Chinese food in China and so on. Have a feeling it's all been heavily modified from the originating country. I'd put that on my bucket list but I already know that's way out of budget...


Would Italian food at an Italian restaurante in Germany operated by Italians count as the same as Italian food in Italy?

The problem with "Italian food" is that it doesn't exists. It would be more correct to speak about Italian regional food, and, in many cases, Italian provincial food. Consider Lombardy: Milanese food is different than Pavia's food (less than one hour drive south of Milan). And, if you go further south, the Oltrepò wine country's food is even more its own thing (with some recipes partially imported from the Riviera). In Tuscany you find a different kind of cuisine every few kilometres... (I love all of them anyway).

This is why when you go out to eat with your friends here in Italy you still have the choice to go to a "Tuscan" restaurant, or "Roman" restaurant or a variety of other choices. This has nothing to do with the quality of the food or the talent of the owners.

So, an "Italian" restaurant in a foreign country can be, usually, one of these two things: a restaurant with a sort of "best of" from various parts of Italy or a regional restaurant that may or may not advertise itself as such. In Paris I once stumbled into a Sicilian restaurant in a corner on the Rive Gauche, and there is a Roman restaurant on the Champs-Élysées, but most of the time I guess it is easier to label yourself as "Italian" and smile.




I believe it is very similar for most countries. Big India or my example from Turkey; Aegean food is different than Black Sea region north, Caucasus to east the and south east regions. And in Berlin 'Döner Kebap' could be different than in traditional form. But ingredients are important and less on chefs origin. In a foreign country chefs could add according to taste in that country.

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 17
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 9:49:55 PM   
Zap


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From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		Authentic Italian pizza (In Italy) is tomato sauce on bread
Post #: 18
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 10:15:13 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Someone took a look at a table loaded with food from around here and said that it looks like a taste of Europe!

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RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 10:35:57 PM   
dje

 

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Status: offline 		All this talk and the one thing I come away with is none of you guys have even had Chicago pizza

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RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 10:46:14 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
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Status: offline 		I can only write of my own experience, with great respect for Chicago deep-dish pizza. The best slice I ever had was visiting Utica, NY, in the early 1980s. Currently, the armpit of Upstate NY, but not always that way.

I do know one thing, however: In my 36 years in NE Ohio, nothing came remotely close to the definition of pizza! God bless.

And God help me (and He does), we are now in Louisville, KY. They don't have pizza here...

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Post #: 21
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 10:57:04 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dje

All this talk and the one thing I come away with is none of you guys have even had Chicago pizza

Chicago, no. American? Let's see... Washington D.C., New York ("Sbarro": does someone remember those? Are they still around?), San Francisco, Las Vegas...

In Las Vegas I was at the Paris resort after flying in from... Paris ("I crossed an ocean and a continent - and I'm still here"). There was this Italian restaurant called "Le Provençal" (I kid thee not). Let's say that even the Italian names of the dishes were misspelled on the menu. So, being alone and drunk in Las Vegas what did I do? Exactly: I pulled out my pen and corrected all the misspelled names - and then I left the menu on the table.

I never came back to check (I never visited Las Vegas again, actually - boring city, BTW) but sometimes I wonder...

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"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

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Post #: 22
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/10/2021 11:13:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dje

All this talk and the one thing I come away with is none of you guys have even had Chicago pizza


How do you know that?

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Post #: 23
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/11/2021 12:10:51 AM   
ThomasJay

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

Just read a story today that New Haven Connecticut is the Pizza Capital of America. New York and New Jersey are up in arms about this classification. So I'm guessing there could be an all out war between Pizza fans. Chicago? where did that come from.


It's an American regional thing. As long as I can remember, and I'm 65, there has been a major controversy between Chicagoans and their deep dish pies and the Northeast with their floppy, slightly greasy thin crusts and thicker crust square 'Sicilians'. There's also debates between Philly, NYC and other NE cities as to whose is best.
I'm sure none of them are authentic Italian though most of the places I went to growing up in New Jersey were run by Sicilians both recent immigrants and older families. I remember when this went down a couple places I had been to were implicated as fronts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_Connection_Trial

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Post #: 24
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/11/2021 12:36:19 AM   
ThomasJay

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


quote:

ORIGINAL: dje

All this talk and the one thing I come away with is none of you guys have even had Chicago pizza

Chicago, no. American? Let's see... Washington D.C., New York ("Sbarro": does someone remember those?


I hope your not equating Sbarro with New York City pizza! They're a chain I've never seen one outside of a highway rest area, airport or shopping mall food court. Maybe they've put one in Times Square for the tourists since they Disneyfied it, but that is not even close to authentic NY/North Jersey pizza.

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 25
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/11/2021 2:38:26 AM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		To me, pizza is flat bread tomato pasta sauce, pepperoni, cheese, green peppers, mushrooms to begin with. I'm open for more, but sometimes you can overload a pizza.

I find it funny when some will get up in arms about something that really doesn't matter. My life will go on regardless of what anyone thinks of my recipe.
But if I serve that, and you don't like it, it just means I get more pizza for me :)

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Post #: 26
RE: Chicago the "Pizza Capital" of the World? - 2/11/2021 5:54:29 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I do think that most areas, or countries, import food from other areas, and then try to improve upon it. Whether it is an improvement, or not, is up for debate.

I think that recipes for both Kebab, and Pizza, has been improved in Sweden. However, due to the difficulty of getting fresh vegetables for the dishes it is usually very nice to eat closer to the source of the vegetables.

I fondly recall buying vegetables, fruit, and cheese, and freshly baked bread, and eating like a king on a balcony in Normandy. I've had similar experiences on hotel balconies in other countries.

Thankfully the vegetables, and fruits, that are available in Sweden has improved its standard somewhat over the years.

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