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French CBV - 2/11/2021 7:17:56 AM

Orm

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Which of the CBV are Free French? And which are French? And how can you tell the difference?

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RE: French CBV - 2/12/2021 1:55:49 PM

Orm

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Anyone has any knowledge of this? Help is really appreciated.

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RE: French CBV - 2/15/2021 3:22:51 PM

Orm

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No one knows if all the French CBV are Free French? Or some are available to France from the get go?

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RE: French CBV - 2/15/2021 3:34:00 PM

Centuur

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I honestly don't know. I always thought that all CBV were available at start in 1939 (unless you don't control the hex)...

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RE: French CBV - 2/15/2021 3:54:53 PM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I honestly don't know. I always thought that all CBV were available at start in 1939 (unless you don't control the hex)...

Well. In order for this clarification to make sense there must be Free French CBV that are not available to France...

Cut from RAC:
[Clarification. The Free French city based volunteers are available to Free France if it exists. If Free France does
not exist (for any reason) but France itself exists after having been completely or incompletely conquered, then these
CBV units are available to France - May 11, 2007.]

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RE: French CBV - 2/19/2021 10:11:41 PM

paulderynck

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The FF CBVs show up when FF is created. But they are not FF units, they are units of their minor country - which can create a lot of cooperation problems for use with FF allies or even each other.

Or at least that's how they worked in RAW7, not sure if they are programmed in MWiF that way. (A deviation here from RAW to RAC would be quite nice!)

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Paul

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RE: French CBV - 2/19/2021 10:20:31 PM

Orm

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Thank you, Paul.

Did I understand you right that they all appear when Free France is created?

That 3 of them begin in the Free French force pool, and 3 in the future force pool makes me suspicious that some could be considered French (by MWIF), and thus available at once. I will check that.

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RE: French CBV - 2/20/2021 7:41:47 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, Paul.

Did I understand you right that they all appear when Free France is created?

That 3 of them begin in the Free French force pool, and 3 in the future force pool makes me suspicious that some could be considered French (by MWIF), and thus available at once. I will check that.

That is how it is coded presently.

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RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 2:36:46 AM

craigbear

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I think the extra (free) mountain makes this terribly imbalanced to France's benefit.

If I want to get around this, I think there is a possibility to not "build" these units and wait until Free France is created or France is conquered or partially so.

Will this work-around succeed?

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RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 6:06:10 AM

craigbear

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It worked. I simply did not choose the units to be built and they remained in the force pool. I believe they will remain free to build by Free France once Vichy (or conquest) is declared and will then proceed to "purchase" them as FF (or partially conquered France).

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Post #: 10

RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 7:09:00 AM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: craigbear

It worked. I simply did not choose the units to be built and they remained in the force pool. I believe they will remain free to build by Free France once Vichy (or conquest) is declared and will then proceed to "purchase" them as FF (or partially conquered France).

No, I do not think it will automatically succeed. I think all the CBV in the French force pool will be treated as regular French units once France is conquered or Vichied. They will probably be removed from the French force pool as per the rules. And they should be added to the Free French force pool as soon as their controlling cities are Free French.

It might very well be that this needs to be edited either way. But I think it better to edit it as late as possible.

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RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 7:16:04 AM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: craigbear

I think the extra (free) mountain makes this terribly imbalanced to France's benefit.

I think terribly imbalanced is a bit stronger than I think a free MTN deserves. Partly because there are not much mountain in the route for the German panzers to reach Paris. And partly because it needs to be shipped to France to be of use of the protection of Paris. And Germany has a free MECH that they potentially can get very early, and that unit is of more use, in my humble opinion, than the MTN.

Anyway. This was why I asked this question in the first place. Should any of the French CBV actually be French, and thus available to France from the get go. Or should they be available only after France has fallen (Free France). I made a search in order to see the original counters to see if that would help but failed to find them. And if no one finds an answer I think we have to presume that MWIF has it right.

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RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 7:19:45 AM

Orm

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I have trouble thinking that three free CBV units would be available to France right away. Especially since two of them are rather strong. Anyone know how to confirm that this is correct?

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RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 10:22:25 AM

ssiviour

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, Paul.

Did I understand you right that they all appear when Free France is created?

That 3 of them begin in the Free French force pool, and 3 in the future force pool makes me suspicious that some could be considered French (by MWIF), and thus available at once. I will check that.

That is how it is coded presently.

I believe Steve answered this as he coded 3 from the beginning and 3 on FF

I would run with this until clarified further.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 14

RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 11:45:40 AM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ssiviour

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, Paul.

Did I understand you right that they all appear when Free France is created?

That 3 of them begin in the Free French force pool, and 3 in the future force pool makes me suspicious that some could be considered French (by MWIF), and thus available at once. I will check that.

That is how it is coded presently.

I believe Steve answered this as he coded 3 from the beginning and 3 on FF

I would run with this until clarified further.

Yes. We should run with this until further clarified.

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RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 12:49:56 PM

Orm

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According to the Mech In Flames countersheet posted in our AAR thread four of the French CBV are French. And according to the Polif countersheet I found two of the French CBV are Free French. So there seems to be a bug here.

As I understand it the two CBV that are Free French are the Algiers MTN, and the Rabat MIL. I marked those two with the red arrows in the picture below.

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RE: French CBV - 2/25/2021 12:53:19 PM

Orm

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The CS30, Politics in Flames, with the remaining two French CBV. And with the relevant rule for the counters from Polif (Millennium Annual):

Free French units (2 counters)
The two Free French units are only available....

Note that France also has the Senegal MIL on this countersheet and the rules states that this is just a regular unit added to the game.

Attachment (1)

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RE: French CBV - 2/26/2021 11:53:49 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

According to the Mech In Flames countersheet posted in our AAR thread four of the French CBV are French. And according to the Polif countersheet I found two of the French CBV are Free French. So there seems to be a bug here.

As I understand it the two CBV that are Free French are the Algiers MTN, and the Rabat MIL. I marked those two with the red arrows in the picture below.

Okay, the nationality of these units is getting more clear with this additional information.

Does anyone have "Harry Rowland approved" nationalities for the 'French' City Based Volunteers?

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 2/26/2021 11:54:31 PM >

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RE: French CBV - 2/28/2021 4:33:15 PM

paulderynck

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The rule is they are Free French units and do not appear if there is no Free France, but if France (or Free France) is later reconstituted then they are all triggered to appear if their country is liberated.

Also if their country is aligned to (Free) France they are units of that minor NOT major power units. But if their country is conquered (may be possible if a country is Vichy and then gets conquered by Free France) then they ARE major power units. But suppose the CW or USA conquers a Vichy country? Then it can only liberate that country to Free France and the units would be minor country units. This opens a host of cooperation issues for many of these units, Free France and her major power allies, so much so that these units are not terribly efficacious.

If the extra coding to make them anything but Free French major power units was considered not worth the trouble, I for one, would not object to that as a "deviation".

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RE: French CBV - 6/19/2021 8:13:49 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The rule is they are Free French units and do not appear if there is no Free France, but if France (or Free France) is later reconstituted then they are all triggered to appear if their country is liberated.

Also if their country is aligned to (Free) France they are units of that minor NOT major power units. But if their country is conquered (may be possible if a country is Vichy and then gets conquered by Free France) then they ARE major power units. But suppose the CW or USA conquers a Vichy country? Then it can only liberate that country to Free France and the units would be minor country units. This opens a host of cooperation issues for many of these units, Free France and her major power allies, so much so that these units are not terribly efficacious.

If the extra coding to make them anything but Free French major power units was considered not worth the trouble, I for one, would not object to that as a "deviation".

Paul,

I am working on coding this so the CBV that are Free French are not available until Vichy France is created or France in incompletely conquered. That is, not until Free France exists.

Your reference to THEY is ambiguous. Do you mean all 6 French CBV are Free French? Or just the two identified by ORM above?

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RE: French CBV - 6/20/2021 2:44:59 AM

paulderynck

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All six are only FF CBVs.

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RE: French CBV - 7/21/2021 8:36:08 AM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

All six are only FF CBVs.

I wonder where you got this information from? It is not that I doubt what you say. I just want to know where to find it.

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RE: French CBV - 7/22/2021 4:43:33 AM

paulderynck

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From the FAQ document, Q22.4-34 and -35. In the case of RAW7 we extrapolate the two mentioned (from PoLiF) to all of them. Then in CE, rule 22.8, (RAW8), it is stated much more clearly that they are FF only. (or if original France is still in the game, she gets them ND42).

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RE: French CBV - 8/6/2021 11:22:25 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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I have made the changes to keep the French CBV inassessable until France is incompletely conquered (or Vichy is declared).

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RE: French CBV - 10/24/2021 9:08:40 PM

Nikolai II

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Not that it is commonly likely to be relevant, but an unconquered France would also get them once 1943 starts (after N/D 1942)

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0714/3419/files/WiF_CE_living_Rules_6_Oct_2021_highlight.pdf?v=1633494950

(So it would seem the delay of adding them to France is mostly about not losing them to a declared Vichy, since they are supposed to be French volunteers)

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RE: French CBV - 10/25/2021 11:28:30 PM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikolai II

Not that it is commonly likely to be relevant, but an unconquered France would also get them once 1943 starts (after N/D 1942)

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0714/3419/files/WiF_CE_living_Rules_6_Oct_2021_highlight.pdf?v=1633494950

(So it would seem the delay of adding them to France is mostly about not losing them to a declared Vichy, since they are supposed to be French volunteers)

Agreed.

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