Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> The War Room >> Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions.

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Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/25/2020 9:43:26 AM

Halfwhelk

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Joined: 10/25/2020
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Hi,
My First Post.
I have about 30 hours of Command experience now and I am working through 'Green Tide' as an exercise in working the systems.
So far I have learned this much:
1) If I don't have any unit closer than about 50 miles from the Moroccan border and make no aggressive moves then everything is cool. The enemy harass my forces and fly over the islands with impunity, but no one gets hurt.
2) On my first aggressive move the enemy unleashes a sh*tstorm and destroys everything with overwhelming forces.
3) Even with my forces turned up to maximum aggression (weapons free, engage everything) they are (unrealistically?) ineffective. While the enemy are lobbing missiles over Lanzarote and destroying my frigates at 50+ miles range, I can't get a frigate to engage a patrol boat at 5 miles (unless I specifically tell it to engage and even then it seems a bit weedy).
4) Even with 2 x fourship F/A-18 CAPs I'm getting unrealistic losses against twoship Mirage F1 or F16 incursions.

I have run Green Tide about six times now with different strategies and its always a disaster. Is it winnable? How?

Cheers

Post #: 1

RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/25/2020 11:38:49 AM

Eboreg

Posts: 230
Joined: 3/14/2019
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I would describe in detail but... well... a picture is worth a thousand words and a video has over 10,000 pictures.

(in reply to Halfwhelk)

Post #: 2

RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/25/2020 5:19:45 PM

Halfwhelk

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Joined: 10/25/2020
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Eboreg
Thanks for the post. I watched the video with interest. I learned some new things, but my strategy (in the main) has not been very different from yours, however its like the reds in my 'Green Tide' have been given an extra dose of ...fortitude.

There's the jammer to the NE.
Twice as many ships.
Sea skimming missiles that hit my frigate from 135nm (!?) away, while I launch 6 harpoons at a patrol boat 20nm away and every one misses.
Enemy CAPs that take out my helos and P8s within 10 minutes and do 2:1 damage to my F/A-18s.

Has this been modified since your post (September 2020), or have I got some settings wrong somewhere?

< Message edited by Halfwhelk -- 10/25/2020 5:20:11 PM >

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RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/25/2020 8:06:20 PM

Eboreg

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I don't think anything's changed though if the frigates from the NW are getting into range, it's best to turn off your radars and haul ass out of there. Also, don't use harpoons against patrol boats, use either guns, SAMs, or best of all, Penguins. Lastly, don't, I repeat don't lose anything.

(in reply to Halfwhelk)

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RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/25/2020 8:30:31 PM

KungPao

Posts: 333
Joined: 4/25/2016
From: Red China
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I agree, this is a very hard scenario, Moroccan side is outnumber, outgun, out-range Spain side. And it is Spain on the attack side while everything is under Moroccan's AEW surveillance .

First time I tried this scenario, I setup an ambush, I tried to use 6x F-18s attack the 2x F-16 from two direction. Guess what, it ends with a disaster lose at 0:3.

I would image a better strategy would be focus on Moroccan naval force and strike A/C. Don't challenge F-16s.
1, use Sub to take out the two FREMM FFG in the north sector.
2, let the Moroccan come to you
3, pull back Spanish Navy force first. Counter-attack when Moroccan vessel are getting close to Las Palma island. Use Helo and F/A-18 armed with LGB to take care of Moroccan Patrol boats. If Moroccan's F-16s come and challenge you, fall back to your Navy's SAM umbrella. Use your AAM armed F/A-18s to shot down Exocet ASM. Then make all available Harpoon concentrate fire on the two FREMMs in the south sector.

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RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/25/2020 9:51:06 PM

Eboreg

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If you're hoping to take out the northern group with your submarine, I would wait until an update fixes the torpedo kinematic range bug that's been screwing me up lately.

(in reply to KungPao)

Post #: 6

RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/26/2020 12:26:55 AM

Rory Noonan

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
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General advice for all scenarios, particularly any I have authored or remastered:

Pick your fights.

If you're outmatched in the air, don't fight in the air. Destroy their air capability using your ships, submarines and ground units. Even better if you can get the mission done without fighting their air units at all.

Do you *need* to put up a CAP? Does putting a CAP up actually give you a benefit or does it just invite a (stronger, more numerous) enemy to come beat you up? Would interceptors be better for defence?

How would a real military undertake this operation? Would they put up a CAP over the field to let everyone know whats coming and invite a fight before taking with oilfields with whatever is nearby?

Or would they organise things so that the oil rigs were all taken simultaneously when a robust defence was already in place and ready to be initiated?

KungPao above gives a good example of the rock-scissor-paper approach to strategy; if your opponent has a strong air presence [rock] don't use something they can destroy easily like your own air assets [scissors], instead use something that can easily overcome their strength and avoid retaliation, like surface ships with SAMs [paper].

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RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/26/2020 4:17:31 PM

.Sirius

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Hi guys
My way is, if you are outgunned in all departments do the unexpected including going on the Offensive and bring the fight to the enemy, engage u.its that are vital ie, AWACS,AEW,Tanker and Support assets.

< Message edited by .Sirius -- 10/26/2020 4:18:21 PM >

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Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
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Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/26/2020 5:07:04 PM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
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From: Washington D.C.
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Paul is the poster child for "When in doubt, attack, and then attack again."

You can't not love that. ;-)

(in reply to .Sirius)

Post #: 9

RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/26/2020 5:23:15 PM

SeaQueen

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From: Washington D.C.
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quote:

4) Even with 2 x fourship F/A-18 CAPs I'm getting unrealistic losses against twoship Mirage F1 or F16 incursions.

The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it. --Manfred von Richthofen

In Command, this means a lot depends on how you set up the CAPs. One technique to figure out how to start drawing boxes and orbits, is to build a sample intercept timeline. First, need to position ISR assets including AWACS, ground and ship based radars so that you spot and identify the enemy fighters before they enter prosecution area for the fighters. The timeline starts the moment your fighters commit (i.e. bad-guys cross into the prosecution area). Then, calculate how much time it will be until their fighters enter your WEZ, and your fighters enter theirs. You want to make sure that they enter yours first, so you can attack and potentially re-attack before they do. Keep in mind, you may want to shrink down your firing range because it'll make your PK go up a bit. Also, in CMO, I've found that fighters are good to get into a fight and terrible about getting out of them. Use the various options you have available to get your fighters to reset the CAP quickly, so they're in position for the next wave.

Here's a great resource to give you some stuff to think about:
Fighter Pilot Podcast. Ep 071, Air to Air Mission Planning

Example: I'm going to commit on the bogeys when they come within 70NM of my CAP. We're both closing at 480kts, so our combined closure is 960kts. That means we're closing at 16NM per minute. In a little more than 4 mins, we merge. I also happen to have a 60NM missile, though. They'll be in my WEZ in 37.5 sec, that's when I'll open fire. They have a 30NM missile, therefore I'll enter their WEZ

T=0 Commit on the hostile track
T=37.4 sec Hostile enters my WEZ, FOX-3!

... Between here and there, is where I kill them. Is there enough time and missiles to get them all? ...

T=2.5 min I enter hostile's WEZ, DEFENDING!
T=4.3min Merge, now it's anybody's game.

The other thing is, don't burn your fighters. If you stick them up too early, then they'll be low on gas, or hanging on the tanker, when the bad guys come and that can mess up your intercept timeline.

< Message edited by SeaQueen -- 10/27/2020 4:14:03 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 10/26/2020 5:46:41 PM

.Sirius

Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

Paul is the poster child for "When in doubt, attack, and then attack again."

You can't not love that. ;-)

Thankyou

nothing is impossible it just takes a little bit longer than originally planned,( you try working a plan in the 1980's with 2 Exocet fitted frigates range 21nm against a SS-N-22 Sunburn Sovreminyi 60nm) heh

Give me afew days to do the scenario heh
.

< Message edited by .Sirius -- 10/26/2020 5:48:44 PM >

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 11

RE: Green Tide - Noob strategy and tactics questions. - 2/15/2021 7:51:43 PM

jason oates

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Joined: 11/8/2011
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I read this thread the other night and decided to have another go at it as i enjoyed it the first time.

I set up a patrol area to the north of the islands and assigned the 2 Hornet at Lanzarote to patrol.
The WRA for AMRAAM was set at 2 for aircraft and 0 for helicopters. Preferred the short range Iris for that.
The naval assets were sent south, the patrol boats hugging the west coast, the missile boats a few miles further out to sea.
The Orions were set to patrol 50 miles to the west of Lanzarote with a pair of Hornets as escort.
The one sub is ordered to stalk the nearby enemy ship, but they launch a helo.
My Hornet patrol are directed towards the helo and they shoot it down.
Sub sinks enemy ship.

This is when things become weird.

A number of exocets are launched from Mirages to the south and my ships engage them with their long range sams.
The exocets have to pass over the land and are easily destroyed by SAMs and 6 of the mirages are destroyed.
I fire several pairs of Harpoons at the enemy ships near the southern tip of the island but each salvo is shot down.
I change the Harpoon WRA to "Fire all missiles" and the last 7 head towards one of the enemy ships.
It is mortally hit by the sixth and the remaining one then searches for a new target but is shot down by the air defences of the remaining ships.

I had controlled myself and was set for a very long campaign but after 4 hours of action a scenario termination message flashed up.

The enemy had stopped its war and was heading back to port. MAJOR VICTORY to me. Im amazed. I was in it for the long haul with a long range ambush of the Growler that was jamming everything but there you go.

Has anyone else had a result like this?

(in reply to .Sirius)

Post #: 12

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