Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass

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Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/15/2021 12:01:08 PM

warspite1

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This thread will, I really hope, help noobies and people like me of very little brain, to understand the foibles, complexities and irritations that is the convoy, production and oil saving phases.

This is not designed to tell someone how best to play the game and where to position convoys (that is for a player to learn), but it is designed to maximise income given whatever convoys and factories are in play. In other words, to try and ensure a player can get the points that his or her play deserves, without losing points to the vagaries of the system.

I will begin posting as soon as I get the chance.

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

Post #: 1

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/15/2021 1:55:17 PM

warspite1

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Right, the game is set up. Before I start playing through the first turn, is there anything you would do with regards the convoys pre-end of turn phase?

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/15/2021 2:26:28 PM

Angeldust2

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I support your initiative!
Did you consider to start this thread in the Subforum "WIF School" instead?

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 3

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/15/2021 2:27:11 PM

Orm

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From: Sweden
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Perhaps posting a picture on the convoy lines to check that getting it to full production is possible?

xxxxxx

This is my latest convoy routing for maximum CW, and French, production. Only one more CP is needed in the West Med for me to be completely happy with it. The only important resource that is not transported here is the New Caledonia resource that France could use.

Attachment (1)

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 4

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/15/2021 2:35:19 PM

warspite1

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Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angeldust2

I support your initiative!
Did you consider to start this thread in the Subforum "WIF School" instead?

warspite1

If the thread is successful and does what I hope, then hopefully it can be added as a sticky anywhere any one likes.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Angeldust2)

Post #: 5

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/15/2021 2:41:15 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Perhaps posting a picture on the convoy lines to check that getting it to full production is possible?

warspite1

At the end of the turn I will post the convoys so they can be checked - there is no point posting now because u-boats etc may alter what is transferred.

Secondly, remember this NOT about maximising production. That is something that players will learn with experience. This IS about ensuring that the maximum that a player's convoy chain allows to be received, is received by the program.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 6

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/15/2021 3:22:51 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Perhaps posting a picture on the convoy lines to check that getting it to full production is possible?

warspite1

At the end of the turn I will post the convoys so they can be checked - there is no point posting now because u-boats etc may alter what is transferred.

Secondly, remember this NOT about maximising production. That is something that players will learn with experience. This IS about ensuring that the maximum that a player's convoy chain allows to be received, is received by the program.

Agreed. I will try to make a good description on how I get maximum production. Don't forget: I make all decisions at the preliminary production planning phase (not at the final production planning phase, since at that point there are things you cannot change anymore).

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Peter

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 7

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/15/2021 5:42:47 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Perhaps posting a picture on the convoy lines to check that getting it to full production is possible?

warspite1

At the end of the turn I will post the convoys so they can be checked - there is no point posting now because u-boats etc may alter what is transferred.

Secondly, remember this NOT about maximising production. That is something that players will learn with experience. This IS about ensuring that the maximum that a player's convoy chain allows to be received, is received by the program.

Agreed. I will try to make a good description on how I get maximum production. Don't forget: I make all decisions at the preliminary production planning phase (not at the final production planning phase, since at that point there are things you cannot change anymore).

I guess I'll do the same, so we can compare notes and determine whose truly the master.

Attachment (1)

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Ronnie

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 8

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 3:26:00 PM

warspite1

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Okay so Turn one is about to come to an end. I suggest we first look at my bete noire (and I sure many people's).

The following are the Convoys in place for the British and French.

There follows the Production planning forms. These are not amended.

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 9

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 3:27:05 PM

warspite1

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Commonwealth

Please shout if these numbers are unclear

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/16/2021 3:32:50 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 10

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 3:34:05 PM

warspite1

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Commonwealth

Obviously there may be more or less demand for oil depending on personal preference, but given that oil can be easily saved in situ, let's assume that production is to be maximised and allow for some assistance to the French.

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/16/2021 3:54:22 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 3:36:42 PM

warspite1

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France

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/16/2021 3:39:35 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 12

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 3:36:53 PM

warspite1

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France

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/16/2021 3:41:19 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 13

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 3:45:06 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Perhaps posting a picture on the convoy lines to check that getting it to full production is possible?

warspite1

At the end of the turn I will post the convoys so they can be checked - there is no point posting now because u-boats etc may alter what is transferred.

Secondly, remember this NOT about maximising production. That is something that players will learn with experience. This IS about ensuring that the maximum that a player's convoy chain allows to be received, is received by the program.

Agreed. I will try to make a good description on how I get maximum production. Don't forget: I make all decisions at the preliminary production planning phase (not at the final production planning phase, since at that point there are things you cannot change anymore).

I guess I'll do the same, so we can compare notes and determine whose truly the master.

warspite1

Right, no hair pulling, no spitting, no gouging... I want a good clean fight to see who is the master

.

Over to you Centuur and rkr1958. It's the preliminary production phase - so how do you work your magic? And please, make it a truly step by step guide. This needs to be idiot proof so that even I can understand it.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/16/2021 3:55:17 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 5:58:11 PM

CanInf

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this is GREAT thanks!

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 15

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 8:38:29 PM

Centuur

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Can we have a saved game, please? That will make it easier for me to document how to get maximum production.

Tomorrow after the "office hours at home" your on...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 2/16/2021 8:39:30 PM >

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Peter

(in reply to CanInf)

Post #: 16

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/16/2021 11:41:12 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Can we have a saved game, please? That will make it easier for me to document how to get maximum production.

Tomorrow after the "office hours at home" your on...

what he said.

_____________________________

Ronnie

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 17

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 12:46:12 AM

craigbear

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Q: not certain this is relevant to the post's goals, but are the Australian resources not usually sent to Canada via the Pacific? Also, maximizing UK production can be done with only 21 rp at this point with. 5 production multiple... this may allow extra French resources (Hanoi), although the French multiple may see no improvement either.

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 18

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 4:37:56 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Can we have a saved game, please? That will make it easier for me to document how to get maximum production.

Tomorrow after the "office hours at home" your on...

what he said.

warspite1

Gents, we have different versions so I'm not sure that would work. What I was hoping for was that you could provide the mechanics of removing defaults and overrides etc. I would then do the heavy lifting in terms of implementing what needs to be done and can post whatever screenshots are required along the way.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 19

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 4:55:45 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Q: not certain this is relevant to the post's goals, but are the Australian resources not usually sent to Canada via the Pacific? Also, maximizing UK production can be done with only 21 rp at this point with. 5 production multiple... this may allow extra French resources (Hanoi), although the French multiple may see no improvement either.

warspite1

This thread is not interested in maximising production in each and every turn. That is for a player to learn. It is interested in ensuring a player can have confidence in operating the system so that whatever production should be available (from the convoys he/she set up and that survive enemy interdiction) are available - and not have some lost because the program insists on using 10 convoys (and totally destroying a convoy route) where 1 should be able to do the work.

I have no confidence in it, I don't understand all the default, override stuff and I have lost pleasure in playing the game because I can't face battling this, fun-sucking vampire element of the game, at the end of every turn. Other players have said the same thing and the game has lost players as a result.

BUT encouragingly, other players, such as rkr1958 and Centuur have said they've got the convoy, production, oil system working (or working well enough) for them.

Great. So let's see how its done and what new players (and old ones who have lost the will) can do to restore the fun and in some cases, give this great game another chance.

That is the goal of this thread*

*Also as I work through the game, I can report the various oil loss issues I've encountered with both Allies (Commonwealth) and Axis (Germany/Italy) powers.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/17/2021 5:00:19 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 20

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 12:45:24 PM

Centuur

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One has to check all resources and the overseas routes which are used by individual resources, so giving only the idle resources is not enough information.

Therefore: saved game, please. I will give a detailed information how to get things done and why I take those actions.

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Peter

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 21

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 1:46:26 PM

Joseignacio

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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Can we have a saved game, please? That will make it easier for me to document how to get maximum production.

Tomorrow after the "office hours at home" your on...

what he said.

warspite1

Gents, we have different versions so I'm not sure that would work. What I was hoping for was that you could provide the mechanics of removing defaults and overrides etc. I would then do the heavy lifting in terms of implementing what needs to be done and can post whatever screenshots are required along the way.

The mechanics are different depending on the routes, the Artificial Dubness may have no problems with one route and however may not like some others and not let you do them.

It is not a matter of procedure, but of disconecting the friggin AD.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 22

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 3:07:22 PM

warspite1

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What version do you have installed rkr1958?

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 23

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 3:15:40 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

One has to check all resources and the overseas routes which are used by individual resources, so giving only the idle resources is not enough information.

Therefore: saved game, please. I will give a detailed information how to get things done and why I take those actions.

Me too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Gents, we have different versions so I'm not sure that would work. What I was hoping for was that you could provide the mechanics of removing defaults and overrides etc. I would then do the heavy lifting in terms of implementing what needs to be done and can post whatever screenshots are required along the way.

don't worry about different versions. I just need a "copy" of your game file to work through the production. From that I will post the details with screen CAPs of what I did to get the production I got. Hopefully, you and others will be able to follow that "cookbook" and get the same results.

_____________________________

Ronnie

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 24

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 3:22:23 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

What version do you have installed rkr1958?

4.2.1.1 (debug). But I'm capable of running any or all earlier versions back to 3.2.0.

However, if you just post (i.e., attach) your current game file I can deal with any version differences even if it's a higher version than the one I'm using.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 2/17/2021 3:24:31 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 25

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 3:40:14 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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Right, so here is the game at Preliminary Production. Resources to China has been selected and the CW would like to assist with the Burmese oil

Lets send 4 resources (1 oil) to France from the CW

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/17/2021 3:45:14 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 26

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 4:19:02 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Right, so here is the game at Preliminary Production. Resources to China has been selected and the CW would like to assist with the Burmese oil

Lets send 4 resources (1 oil) to France from the CW

Resource have to be lend to another major power in the lending resources stage.

RAW:

3.1 Sequence of play
The sequence of play in a turn is:
A. REINFORCEMENT STAGE
B. LENDING RESOURCES STAGE
C. INITIATIVE STAGE
D. ACTION STAGE
Repeat D1 through D3 until the action stage ends.
D1 Determine weather
D2 First side�s impulse
Every major power on the first side performs these steps:
D2.1 Declare war
D2.2 Choose action
Choose either a pass, a naval, an air, a land or a
combined action.
D2.3 Perform actions
The major powers that didn�t pass perform these
steps in this order (their action choice will limit
what they can do ~ see action limits table):
(a) Port attacks
(b) Naval air missions
(c) Naval movement
(d) Your naval combat
(e) Opponent�s naval combat
(f) Strategic bombardment
(g) Carpet bombing (option 32)
(h) Ground strike missions
(i) Rail movement
(j) Land movement
(k) Air transport
(l) Debark land units at sea
(m) Invasions
(n) Paradrops
(o) Land combat
(p) Air rebases
(q) Reorganisation
D2.4 End of action
Roll to end the action stage. If it doesn�t end,
advance the impulse marker the number of spaces
shown on the weather chart for the current weather
roll. If it ends, move on to stage E - the end of
turn.
D3 Second side�s impulse
If the action stage didn�t end, repeat the steps in D2 for
the second side. If the action stage doesn�t end after the
second side�s impulse, go back to D1.
E. END OF TURN STAGE
Both sides perform these steps in this order:
E1 Partisans
E2 US entry
E3 Return to base
E4 Final reorganisation
E5 Production
E6 Intelligence (option 63)
E7 Peace
E7.1 Conquest
E7.2 Allied minor support
E7.3 Mutual peace
E7.4 Vichy declaration
E7.5 Liberation
E7.6 Surrender
E8 Victory check (& option 30: factory destruction)

The game start in SO 1939 at point D1. That's after the lending stage. What you want to do is not allowed according to the rules...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Centuur -- 2/17/2021 4:25:04 PM >

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Peter

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Post #: 27

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 4:50:58 PM

Centuur

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To get maximum production for France and the CW at start in an oil game, I always start with the major power on a side which has the fewest resources to send overseas. Also, I would want to save as many oil as possible.

So China is first.
China at start of the game is automatically correct. All resources are send over land (no resource lending is possible in the first turn, even if one has chosen the US option). In the gamesave all 7 resources are send to factories. I than press the button "Switch major power", and the USSR is next.

The USSR produces 6 BP, using all resources. However, saving one oil resource is possible (this is also the maximum for neutral major powers), without reducing the number of build points produced. Therefore, I select the line of one oil resource, press the button "Save" stated under "Rail/Ship" and select a city to save that oil point in. After that, I press the button recompute. I check the resource chosen if it gets saved in that city. I than press the "Switch major power" and the United States is the next major power.

The United States has full production. One oil resource (usually the one in Alaska) is idle. Again, I want to save that resource and put it in the city of Albuquerque (there is a US convoy available to do this). After pressing the "Recompute" button, I select France.

France and the CW are at start usually a mess. MWIF does a really poor job for the calculations here.

To get maximum production, 15 CW resources needs to be send overseas to the UK and as much other French resources need to go arrive in France. The choice is whether or not to burn the Iraqi oil in a French factory. In the first turn, that means a difference of a build point. I'm going to presume that the goal is maximum production. So the Iraqi oil gets send of to France and will get burned in a factory. Also: the Indo Chinese resource will be send to a factory in France.

Attachment (1)

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Peter

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 28

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/17/2021 4:58:47 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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However, the Indo China resource is shown to be "idle". I select that line, press the button "Produce" under "Rail Ship" and select the idle factory of Vichy. I press recompute.

Yes, I got maximum production with 10 Production Points now, but hey: that's silly, isn't it. I'm burning an oil point in a factory and the production multiplier is 0,5. So I again go back to the oil resource in France, and decide to save that one in Toulouse.

So I select the line with the oil resource, go again under "Rail/Ship", press the Save button and select the city of Toulouse. Again I press recompute. After I've done this the French production planning looks as in the picture. After checking if everything is OK, I'll press "switch major power".