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Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/18/2021 8:35:21 AM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
Joined: 8/7/2020
From: Perth, Western Australia
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I have Gary Grigsby's War in the East and War in the West, though I haven't actually got up the courage to play them yet

I also haven't yet played Warplan which I have in my Steam library

I do have, and played Panzer Corp 2. While that game is OK, it is quite abstracted IMO, lacks granularity and I'm doubting the historical accuracy.

So while I haven't played the first two games, they are possible the better in the sense of granularity and accuracy in the traditional wargame sense.

However, I would like opinions on games, preferably fairly recent (10 years??) that might be on a par with Gary's games but take a bit less time in mastering. Yes, I know, complexity comes at a cost in time....

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RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/18/2021 9:03:23 AM

RFalvo69

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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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Any title in the "Decisive Campaigns" series should fit your bill - if you are looking for an Operational/Strategic experience.

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Post #: 2

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/18/2021 9:03:32 AM

Rising-Sun

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From: Clifton Park, NY
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browne, you could try War in the Pacific:AE, its pretty good and i am waiting for Warplan:Pacific, hopefully it will be out this year. I know it kinda expensive, might wanna wait until next sale.

< Message edited by Rising-Sun -- 2/18/2021 9:04:07 AM >

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RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/19/2021 9:02:20 AM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
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From: Perth, Western Australia
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Thanks. I should have mentioned that I'm particularly after WW2 Mediterranean Theatre - North Africa, Sicily and Italy. Of course it doesn't have to be published by Matrix. But it does need to be relatively recent (this century...), and be very historically accurate and good AI.

Peter

(in reply to Rising-Sun)

Post #: 4

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/19/2021 10:07:13 AM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne

Thanks. I should have mentioned that I'm particularly after WW2 Mediterranean Theatre - North Africa, Sicily and Italy. Of course it doesn't have to be published by Matrix. But it does need to be relatively recent (this century...), and be very historically accurate and good AI.

Peter

I bought SGS Afrika Korps on Steam and I'm really enjoying it. There is a review on Wargamer you may wish to check out: https://www.wargamer.com/afrika-korps/review

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

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Post #: 5

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/19/2021 9:56:47 PM

Eambar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne

Thanks. I should have mentioned that I'm particularly after WW2 Mediterranean Theatre - North Africa, Sicily and Italy. Of course it doesn't have to be published by Matrix. But it does need to be relatively recent (this century...), and be very historically accurate and good AI.

Peter

Highly recommend Command Ops 2. More operational than strategic, has multiple scenarios covering North Africa, Crete, Malta-what ifs, Greece. These packs alone would cover around 60 scenarios.

There is also scenario packs covering Market Garden, Bulge, Bastogne and the western battles of '45. Some excellent user made scenarios are also available covering Stalingrad and the Korsun Pocket.

Base game is free, so try before you buy!

< Message edited by Eambar -- 2/19/2021 9:57:36 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/19/2021 10:13:25 PM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
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From: Perth, Western Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne

Thanks. I should have mentioned that I'm particularly after WW2 Mediterranean Theatre - North Africa, Sicily and Italy. Of course it doesn't have to be published by Matrix. But it does need to be relatively recent (this century...), and be very historically accurate and good AI.

Peter

I bought SGS Afrika Korps on Steam and I'm really enjoying it. There is a review on Wargamer you may wish to check out: https://www.wargamer.com/afrika-korps/review

Thanks for the tip Romano! Looks very interesting, the graphic style also looks refreshing and it seems to follow the tradition board wargame paradigm units strength/movement, supply etc at first glance. What is your opinion of the AI?

Cheers from Perth, Australia!

PS: Lamezia Terme looks like a wonderful place! I have been to Italy many times. Last visit I climbed to the top of Vesuvius during the European heatwave a couple of years ago. It must have been 50 degrees. Also caught the train down to Salerno and to check out landing site and the mountains that the allies had to get through to advance north. I found it very odd that there were no memorials of the landing at Salerno beach, absolutely nothing! In France there are memorials and museums at all the WW1 and WW2 sites. I would love to explore Sicily one day, so Lamezia Terme would be on the way!

Peter

(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 7

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/19/2021 11:55:01 PM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
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From: Perth, Western Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eambar

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne

Thanks. I should have mentioned that I'm particularly after WW2 Mediterranean Theatre - North Africa, Sicily and Italy. Of course it doesn't have to be published by Matrix. But it does need to be relatively recent (this century...), and be very historically accurate and good AI.

Peter

Highly recommend Command Ops 2. More operational than strategic, has multiple scenarios covering North Africa, Crete, Malta-what ifs, Greece. These packs alone would cover around 60 scenarios.

There is also scenario packs covering Market Garden, Bulge, Bastogne and the western battles of '45. Some excellent user made scenarios are also available covering Stalingrad and the Korsun Pocket.

Base game is free, so try before you buy!

Thanks Steve for the heads up! Command Ops 2 also looks good, and seems to have some complexity/sophistication, which I like in strategy games. I will definitely try it out for free. How do you find the AI??

Cheers

Peter

(in reply to Eambar)

Post #: 8

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/20/2021 12:59:44 AM

rickier65

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Did you check out Desert War here?

Rick

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Post #: 9

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/20/2021 3:19:26 AM

Eambar

Posts: 240
Joined: 4/2/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eambar

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne

Thanks. I should have mentioned that I'm particularly after WW2 Mediterranean Theatre - North Africa, Sicily and Italy. Of course it doesn't have to be published by Matrix. But it does need to be relatively recent (this century...), and be very historically accurate and good AI.

Peter

Highly recommend Command Ops 2. More operational than strategic, has multiple scenarios covering North Africa, Crete, Malta-what ifs, Greece. These packs alone would cover around 60 scenarios.

There is also scenario packs covering Market Garden, Bulge, Bastogne and the western battles of '45. Some excellent user made scenarios are also available covering Stalingrad and the Korsun Pocket.

Base game is free, so try before you buy!

Thanks Steve for the heads up! Command Ops 2 also looks good, and seems to have some complexity/sophistication, which I like in strategy games. I will definitely try it out for free. How do you find the AI??

Cheers

Peter

The AI provides quite the challenge. I've just finished seven games from the Cauldron pack (North Africa) with two decisive victories, two marginal victories and three draws.

It is also pretty good at commanding your forces. In CO2 (as in the original), you don't give commands to every unit (you can, but that's not how the system is designed). I find giving commands at the Battalion + level works the best, usually a Battalion HQ with up to half a dozen (sometimes more) companies under command. It is really easy to change units around and form these Battlegroups, or just leave them as they come in the scenario.

For some of the larger scenarios you may have to provide commands to a higher level HQ (Regiment sized or Brigade). All depends on the highest level of on-map HQ.

It is pausible real time, not turn based.

Cheers

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Post #: 10

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/20/2021 8:01:28 AM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

Command Ops 2. More operational than strategic,

Being Battalion Scale, I would say it is Tactical. For a complex Strategic Scale Game with historical accuracy, wouldn't we all say that World in Flames would be the winner?

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Post #: 11

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/20/2021 11:22:51 AM

altipueri

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Joined: 11/14/2009
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Command Ops is Australian too mate.

https://www.secondchancegames.com/index.php/component/virtuemart/manufacturer/lock-n-load-publishing-1

Edit - a better link
https://store.lnlpublishing.com/command-ops-2-series

Try the free trial 3 scenarios.

< Message edited by altipueri -- 2/20/2021 11:24:41 AM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/20/2021 11:39:38 AM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69
I bought SGS Afrika Korps on Steam and I'm really enjoying it. There is a review on Wargamer you may wish to check out: https://www.wargamer.com/afrika-korps/review

quote:

Thanks for the tip Romano! Looks very interesting, the graphic style also looks refreshing and it seems to follow the tradition board wargame paradigm units strength/movement, supply etc at first glance. What is your opinion of the AI?

Better than average. You must also consider that a key part of your strategy is how you play the "cards" in your hand, and until you master this you are disadvantaged. I never tried MP, but my impression is that this game would be great if played against another human.

quote:

PS: Lamezia Terme looks like a wonderful place! I have been to Italy many times. Last visit I climbed to the top of Vesuvius during the European heatwave a couple of years ago. It must have been 50 degrees. Also caught the train down to Salerno and to check out landing site and the mountains that the allies had to get through to advance north. I found it very odd that there were no memorials of the landing at Salerno beach, absolutely nothing!

Strange. There is a war memorial at Salerno. Maybe you missed it during your trip:
https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/2058200/Salerno%20War%20Cemetery/

quote:

I would love to explore Sicily one day, so Lamezia Terme would be on the way!

I'm in the Nicastro (*) area of Lamezia Terme, near the ruins of the Norman castle. It is worth a visit, because we have an abundance of abbeys, cathedrals and other historical buildings (and many more were lost during the centuries to earthquakes - we, sadly, are a very seismic area). The riviera, too, is a nice place to visit - exp. if you want to take a plunge in the Med and eat some good fish-based dishes with white wine afterwards

(*) Fun fact for our English friends: the name "Nicastro" comes from the Greek "Neokastrum", i.e. Newcastle

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

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Post #: 13

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/20/2021 10:39:23 PM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
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From: Perth, Western Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69
Strange. There is a war memorial at Salerno. Maybe you missed it during your trip:
https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/2058200/Salerno%20War%20Cemetery/

...

(*) Fun fact for our English friends: the name "Nicastro" comes from the Greek "Neokastrum", i.e. Newcastle

Ah, I caught the train from Pompeii (having stayed (unfortunately...

)) at Naples for two nights after catching the train from Roma where we were staying) at Scavi-Villa dei Misteri down to Salerno on a spur of the moment decision after visiting Pompeii (for the 2nd time) and climbing to the top Vesuvius. I had my 88 year old mother with me, so walking long distances (except for Vesuvius, where she stayed at the base camp) was not on.

Anyway, I just ended up walking the (long) length of the Salerno beach down that road, Lungomare Guglielmo Marconi, while my mother rested her back in this garden:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir//Lungomare+Clemente+Tafuri,+11-4,+84127+Salerno+SA,+Italy/@40.669709,14.7804827,139m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!4m7!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x133bc247365ddf17:0x4889c335e579153e!2m2!1d14.7771351!2d40.6716969

I was expecting to see memorials, either plaques or statues along the beach, like you see everywhere in France, but alas, nothing. Salerno nevertheless was a great decision to visit, if only for a few hours.

You can really see how the allies had the task in front of them to breakout, being surrounded to the north and east by steep mountains (as you can see in the Google satellite map and aptly described by Spike Milligan in his book). What were they thinking? They would have been so easy to be trapped. Recall on Milligan's book, Mussolini: His Part in My Downfall, that his 5.5inch artillery unit hauled the guns over the mountain range. I think there are only two passes through the mountains to the north.

So aside from North Africa, Operations Husky and Avalanche and the resulting advances (probably from the German side) are next on my list to play.

Saluti!

Peter

BTW, we have a Newcastle in New South Wales, but the only new castles would be the high rise apartments along the beach...

< Message edited by pbrowne -- 2/21/2021 12:54:40 AM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/26/2021 8:59:42 AM

Neilster

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Command Ops 2 is grand tactical and has one of the best AIs in wargaming. The command system is very realistic in that it's designed for you to mostly give commands "two levels down", although you can micromanage if you want to. Sometimes you have to a bit for specific unit missions but, as mentioned above, your AI subordinates do a good job.

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RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/26/2021 6:09:42 PM

ncc1701e

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Try Warplan.

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RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/26/2021 8:59:02 PM

wodin

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Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa. TOAW IV.

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RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/26/2021 10:35:04 PM

pbrowne

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From: Perth, Western Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Command Ops 2 is grand tactical and has one of the best AIs in wargaming. The command system is very realistic in that it's designed for you to mostly give commands "two levels down", although you can micromanage if you want to. Sometimes you have to a bit for specific unit missions but, as mentioned above, your AI subordinates do a good job.

Thanks Neilster. That is another vote for CO2 in this thread, So having looked at a few videos on this game, I will give it a go.

Peter

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Post #: 18

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/26/2021 11:23:18 PM

kaliyama

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Just play war in the west- I promise it isn't bad once you learn it! The manual is supremely laid out and ran contrary to every fear/expectation I had going in after bouncing hard off war in the pacific. I find battle planning outcomes are quite intuitive if you are familiar with the history of avalanche, overlord, and cobra even if you don't have any grasp of the actual model being used by the engine.

Strategic Command and Warplan seem hopelessly gamey and abstract now, don't wait!

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Post #: 19

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/27/2021 1:26:21 AM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
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From: Perth, Western Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kaliyama

Just play war in the west- I promise it isn't bad once you learn it! The manual is supremely laid out and ran contrary to every fear/expectation I had going in after bouncing hard off war in the pacific. I find battle planning outcomes are quite intuitive if you are familiar with the history of avalanche, overlord, and cobra even if you don't have any grasp of the actual model being used by the engine.

Strategic Command and Warplan seem hopelessly gamey and abstract now, don't wait!

I love the Matrix forums more than their games I think! So helpful! Yes, I should play War in the West and War in the East since I have them, but I have been too worried that they will become a sinkhole for time, having read about hours required to make one turn. I will dive in eventually...possibly when War in the East 2 is released.

< Message edited by pbrowne -- 2/27/2021 1:39:43 AM >

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Post #: 20

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/27/2021 11:44:08 AM

RFalvo69

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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbrowne
I love the Matrix forums more than their games I think! So helpful! Yes, I should play War in the West and War in the East since I have them, but I have been too worried that they will become a sinkhole for time, having read about hours required to make one turn.

Both games have some nice shorter scenarios, exp. if you own the expansions too.

Also, the "hours required to make a turn" syndrome kicks it (if you are like me) if you play against a human opponent - and thus you check and recheck everything trice.

Against the AI I always play faster.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

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Post #: 21

RE: Looking for a good WW2 strategy game - 2/28/2021 10:59:51 PM

pbrowne

Posts: 147
Joined: 8/7/2020
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline

Playing War in the West now

I'm starting with the tutorial on Battleground Italy by Pewpewchewchew which seems to be reasonably sane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJjlI8SrU7I

The only thing that I would complain about is that there is no early North Africa campaign, only Torch (which I have) from 1942. No Tobruk, no El-Alamein...

(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 22