Vathailos
Posts: 346
Joined: 5/13/2003
From: In a van, down by the river.
Status: offline
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13 years of being/training/commanding Infantry soldiers should be good enough for "statistics" with regard to knowledge about mine clearing. I’ve spent months with Engineer units as well, and they’re the experts on mine clearing.
You start off with an incorrect assumption that crews are infantry. They are not. If they're crews from a tank, they're tank crews, and can re-mount their vehicle if abandoned. If they're AT gun crews, same goes for them. But dismounted crews are not infantry, you are confusing yourself with this initial assumption, and may be basing the rest of your hypothesis on this non-fact.
As far as “statistics” go, I think you’re looking for historical training records. I can send you the FM numbers and curriculum inclusions to show you that new Infantry troops (GREEN) are indeed trained on recognition and removal, but I doubt you'd understand half of what you're looking at without knowing what the task numbers and abbreviations stand for.
But perhaps you missed the point above. To get a well-trained tank crew, you train them hard in the field, you train them on gunnery tables in all kinds of conditions, you make sure they've got their soldiering basics down (through CTT and sustainment training), and you put them through conditions again and again that are as close to a combat environment as you can simulate (ex. NTC).
You don't get a regular block of mine removal training and a "refresher" annually at FT Knox IIRC. So it's not realistic to assume that vehicle crews (of all vehicles) are trained in mine removal. Again, contemporary methodology.
I think you're trying to assume that just because they're on foot, they should be able to clear mines, perhaps not as well as infantry or engineers, but they should be able to. That is also incorrect.
Consider this example: A 63-series MOS (one of the mechanic series) gets better with training and experience. As they progress in their careers, they get better at diagnosing and repairing equipment in their field. If they are extremely well-trained with combat experience, their diagnoses are faster, they may gain experience on repairing vehicles outside their normal specialty, and they may learn some good tactics for unconventional repairs. What they do NOT gain is an intimate knowledge of mine clearing procedures. They are not specifically trained on the procedure, and that training is not refreshed regularly.
An AFV crew may load quicker (higher ROF), rally better, spot better, even repair broken tracks with ease if they're "elite", but to assume that they've somehow been taught proper mine clearing techinques is a bit of a stretch. They'd be more likely to blow one up than detect and remove it.
You might not understand what it takes in terms of rounds and hours to train a veteran crew. There's precious little time to fit in all the practice and maintenance as it is, without training the crews as mine-clearing engineers, airborne alternates, or back-up field surgeons. Mine clearing is not as simple as poking a bayonet in the dirt. There’s a combination of clearing and marking done by infantry just to make a path wide enough for foot soldiers to pass through.
Now, you also seem to be a bit confused about the way mine clearing is done by tanks and foot soldiers. Mine clearing tanks use rollers, flails, or dozer-like blades to clear mines. They have special equipment. Some Engineer vehicles nowadays even have explosive line charges that can clear mine fields quickly. But back to the point... Yes, a mine-clearing tank should be able to remove mines faster than a prone or kneeling infantry squad.
But the process is entirely different for foot troops. Engineers on foot have an advantage in clearing over regular Infantry because of the equipment they had. They had man-portable metal detectors that they swept in front of themselves with to aid in the detection of mines. They also had much more experience with mines (as they’re trained to lay and remove/disarm them). So, given additional equipment and additional training, yes, it makes sense that Engineer foot soldiers should be able to detect and clear mines better than other Infantry. But the fact that infantry troops are trained (and that it is sustained regularly) enables them to clear mines. They should clear better with more experience, but even GREEN infantry troops are trained in the skill. Vehicle crews are not, cooks are not, tank crews are not, AT gun crews are not, records clerks are not.
I think that I’ve made my point clearly, that the difference is in the equipment and training. Make sense? ;) Infantry have the training, therefore they have the ability. Engineers have both the training and equipment, therefore they do it better. The rest of the lot DO NOT have either, therefore, they shouldn’t be able to do it.
If you want to use “elite” status to mean any soldiers with that status become masters of all military skills, even those outside their MOS, then elite infantry should be able to mount and operate abandoned AFVs, right? And I don’t think anyone wants that.
Put that in your "statistics" pipe and smoke it, lil' fella :p. Actually, smoking's bad for you. Disregard :D
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And I tought I knew every tactics... :) - 
Wow! - 
LOL! - 
Geesh - 
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