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Not for me - 2/16/2021 9:03:37 PM

Dorky8
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When my opponent started hitting London with rail artillery from France it was the final straw for me. I put up with zero supply garrisons blocking supply lines and capturing cities. I've been playing SC Europe for a long time. The fact that the map is almost 1/2 the scale and the land units have the same range I will never understand. Paratroopers with a base 6 range in WaW & WiE, Its half the distance from Berlin to Paris in WaW. Enjoy it guys & gals not for me.

Please don't confuse this with anger at my opponent he was playing within the rules. Game just not for me.

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RE: Not for me - 2/17/2021 12:21:10 AM

Platoonist
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I dunno. I sort of enjoy using an artillery unit in Syracuse to pummel Malta into submission. It beats having to mass all those land-based bombers on Sicily like we did before in WiE.

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RE: Not for me - 2/17/2021 7:36:00 AM

CaesarAug
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But if there is some sort of unrealistic imbalances, surely these issues can be easily modded in the editor?
At the outset, it seems to me that those rail guns may be benefitting from incorrect technology research strike ranges.

Either that, or they start off with unrealistic strike ranges.

If so either way (or a combination of both), it should be quite easy to correct in the editor.

Edit: as an afterthought, in my home-made mod, given that a hex in WaW represents some 50-60 miles,
the carrier strike ranges are fixed at 4 hexes maximum, with no upgradeable research to increase it.
I may even reconsider all aircraft strike ranges, including Fighter interceptions and escort ranges.

Much as it’s cool seeing these ranges increase through research, it may be historically unrealistic if game start
ranges are not set correctly and/or are unduly increased through research. Food for thought...

< Message edited by CaesarAug -- 2/17/2021 8:36:06 AM >

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RE: Not for me - 2/17/2021 9:54:28 AM

BillRunacre
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Yes, this might be an argument for reducing the Rail Gun strike range to 2 hexes.

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RE: Not for me - 2/18/2021 4:04:11 AM

havoc1371
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Yes, they probably should lower the ranges to reflect the different scale, but that means no artillery since even one hex is about 30 miles. Or scale the map up to War in Europe scale (which is still off scale for 2-hex artillery and 3-hex railguns). Aspects of the game are abstracted, but after all, it is a "game". If you want precise realism, you're not going to find it in the SC series. There are more realistic games, but I prefer games I can play a turn in an hour or less.

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RE: Not for me - 2/18/2021 4:52:09 AM

EarlyDoors
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we've been lobbing stuff at each other for years

For the next four years, the German military subjected the Dover Strait and the Kentish countryside to a battering of artillery. Some shells landed as far inland as Chatham — more than 50 kilometres from the coast. In all, at least 1,000 attacks were recorded in just over four years (that’s an average of one every two days). Dover, which is easily observed from the French shoreline, bore the worst of it. Up to 10,000 buildings in and around the city were damaged by shellfire and more than 200 civilians were killed. Hundreds more were injured.

https://militaryhistorynow.com/2016/02/12/the-guns-of-cap-gris-nez-hitlers-four-year-artillery-bombardment-of-southern-england/

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RE: Not for me - 2/18/2021 5:39:59 AM

CaesarAug
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quote:

ORIGINAL: havoc1371

Yes, they probably should lower the ranges to reflect the different scale, but that means no artillery since even one hex is about 30 miles. Or scale the map up to War in Europe scale (which is still off scale for 2-hex artillery and 3-hex railguns). Aspects of the game are abstracted, but after all, it is a "game". If you want precise realism, you're not going to find it in the SC series. There are more realistic games, but I prefer games I can play a turn in an hour or less.

I had asked about hex/miles scales. Developer BillRunacre confirmed that a hex in SC World War I and SC War in Europe is on the order of 18 miles, whereas in SC World at War the hex scale is around 60 miles. It was obvious hex scales were different. And I figured it was about 50-60 miles/hex in World at War. I needed some confirmation on that for modding purposes, since the supposed 30 miles/hex I read in a game review seemed a bit off.

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RE: Not for me - 2/18/2021 6:50:47 AM

Pocus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Yes, this might be an argument for reducing the Rail Gun strike range to 2 hexes.

Oh no, that's only interest! Or if you do that, have it de-entrench at least. Try to emulate the Dora (Schwerer Gustav) by having it only de-entrench but doing it better than regular artillery, no demoralization. That would give a fortress buster only profile to it.

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RE: Not for me - 2/18/2021 6:54:22 AM

Pocus
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Say one strike, no accumulation, 2 de-entrench, range 2 (no resource bombing). Or the same, range 3, 1 de-entrench, no resource bombing. This way it can't be used against London, but I wonder why not? The German during WW1 managed to produce artillery with a range of 128 km (!!)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pariser_Kanonen

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RE: Not for me - 2/18/2021 3:37:35 PM

Hubert Cater
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8
The fact that the map is almost 1/2 the scale and the land units have the same range I will never understand.

Hi Dorky8,

Sorry to hear you no longer enjoy the game.

To answer this question, each game is different and after testing we simply went with what we felt worked on a game by game basis.

Yes we could have just done everything to scale based on a previous game, but often this doesn't always work out as you might think it would.

For example, and this is something anyone can test for themselves via the Editor, if you try halving all the APs based on WiE, it just doesn't play right at all. Especially without halving zone of control, terrain, weather penalties and so on.

Is there the possibility that changes might need to be made based on new concerns such as the one you pointed out above?

Absolutely, and we always do our best to address these. But even here, we'll try and match any changes to the game in question first and foremost.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

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RE: Not for me - 2/18/2021 5:56:17 PM

havoc1371
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I guessed at 30 miles a hex based upon actually measuring from central London to the Calais shoreline with Google Earth Pro, then dividing by the 3 hexes distance on the map. Its approximately 90 miles. Well out of the range of a railgun. But like I said before, some elements of the game have to be abstracted for playability. I personally like the scale of War in Europe and also wondered why the movement and ranges stayed the same in World at War. Bottom line is you get the feel for the war period and the game is balanced between the opposing sides. I don't think this game was ever meant to be a detailed representation of realistic capabilities of individual weapon types.

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Post #: 11

RE: Not for me - 2/20/2021 5:25:58 PM

Dorky8
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SC is one of my fav titles all time. Played it for years. MY issue with WaW there are many ways a PBEM player can "game" the system with the map size & action points. I tried the game when it first came out had the same impression. Some people wrote they eventually liked it more than the Europe game so I (locked down) gave it another try. I liked the SC2 Global & Pacific games a ton but that was vs AI. Looks like many people enjoy the game so have at it.

There is no way that Axis were ever going to hit London from Calais with rail guns. Rail guns had a 25-30 mile range. I'm not looking for GGWiE realism but it has to be within reason. Given the importance of London in the game with Diplomacy ++ rail guns de entrenching my Army in London was the last straw, again not for me.

enjoy the game

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Post #: 12

RE: Not for me - 2/20/2021 9:05:33 PM

CaesarAug
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Well, I definitely see the “problem.” But this can be very easily modded by the player.
In the game editor, change the Strike range of Rail Guns to 1 and make sure no research can increase it.
And as someone said before, maybe even remove all attack value against Resources by setting to 0.

This will most definitely prevent any bombardment of London from Calais. Problem solved.

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Post #: 13

RE: Not for me - 2/20/2021 9:17:00 PM

Dorky8
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I'm playing PBEM

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RE: Not for me - 2/20/2021 9:19:04 PM

CaesarAug
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So? Get your friend to do the same.

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RE: Not for me - 2/20/2021 9:26:05 PM

Dorky8
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I don't think its possible to change a PBEM games parameters but thanks

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RE: Not for me - 2/20/2021 10:55:58 PM

CaesarAug
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Not your ongoing game, no. You would both need to mod the Rail Guns the exact same way and make sure you both have the exact same game parameters in everything, and then start a new game.

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Post #: 17

RE: Not for me - 2/21/2021 7:14:03 PM

Dorky8
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Ok please show me how to do that in a PBEM game tnx

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RE: Not for me - 2/21/2021 7:56:59 PM

ElvisJJonesRambo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Ok please show me how to do that in a PBEM game tnx

Hey Brother Dorky8,

I understand some things might not be realistic nor perfect. From strategy PBEM game, it's quite fun & balanced. This is game has improved over the many versions of the years (evolved if you prefer that word).

Far as the shelling (or lackof if you're on the other side of the English Channel), that's not a showstopper to game play. The game is won/loss in Russia, as you know. That's if you're playing to win the game.

If you desire a historic, strategic PBEM. Play some more games.

I've complained about the weather flip/flop between France/England, the developers move the thermometer (pun intended) on the software code to allow percentage changes. If you're really hung-up on a certain piece/move, just make a deal with your competitor on "gamey stuff".

-EJR

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RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 9:51:54 AM

BillRunacre
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

SC is one of my fav titles all time. Played it for years. MY issue with WaW there are many ways a PBEM player can "game" the system with the map size & action points. I tried the game when it first came out had the same impression. Some people wrote they eventually liked it more than the Europe game so I (locked down) gave it another try. I liked the SC2 Global & Pacific games a ton but that was vs AI. Looks like many people enjoy the game so have at it.

There is no way that Axis were ever going to hit London from Calais with rail guns. Rail guns had a 25-30 mile range. I'm not looking for GGWiE realism but it has to be within reason. Given the importance of London in the game with Diplomacy ++ rail guns de entrenching my Army in London was the last straw, again not for me.

enjoy the game

I will make a change for the next patch (that is the one after the one whose release is imminent).

I honestly think it's an oversight on my part in not having reduced the range from 3 (WWII: War in Europe) to 2 for this game, and I'm sorry that it caused such frustration.

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RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 10:02:46 AM

Marcinos1985
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quote:

I will make a change for the next patch (that is the one after the one whose release is imminent).

I honestly think it's an oversight on my part in not having reduced the range from 3 (WWII: War in Europe) to 2 for this game, and I'm sorry that it caused such frustration.

Bill, what do you think about paratroopers? I believe their range is the same in both games. Is this on purpose? I don't know how it plays in WiE, but in WaW paras are extremely powerfull, and range is important factor here.

It's more about consistency, I don't want to start discussion whether paras are balanced or not. But their range is long indeed. Reducing it would be a strong nerf to Axis, question is of consistency is more important.

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RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 10:03:57 AM

ElvisJJonesRambo
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@BillyR --- No one even buys the this railgun. Since we cannot over stack units, if you make this range 2, makes it even less desirable in Russia. Should this unit be juiced up? Doesn't really do much damage. The only real use would be over the English Channel or Lennigrad, maybe the Russia Fortress or Rostov. But other ground units/air do the job every game.

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Without Him, I would be drifting
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RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 12:57:13 PM

Hubert Cater
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8
Ok please show me how to do that in a PBEM game tnx

Hi Dorky8,

If you edit the campaign to your preferred settings on your end and save it as a modified campaign. Then all you have to do is send it to your opponent, and then it can be played Multiplayer as you then both have the same modified campaign on your PCs.

The campaign is typically saved in your user folder, such as this:

\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Strategic Command WWII - World at War\Campaigns

You would need to send over the campaign file, as well as the subfolder for the campaign. All would be found in the same user folder.

Your opponent would then place it in the same user folder on their end and you should be good to go after that.

Hubert

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RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 4:44:50 PM

Dorky8
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Thanks JJ, Bill & Hubert. Greatly appreciated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcinos1985

quote:

I will make a change for the next patch (that is the one after the one whose release is imminent).

I honestly think it's an oversight on my part in not having reduced the range from 3 (WWII: War in Europe) to 2 for this game, and I'm sorry that it caused such frustration.

Bill, what do you think about paratroopers? I believe their range is the same in both games. Is this on purpose? I don't know how it plays in WiE, but in WaW paras are extremely powerfull, and range is important factor here.

It's more about consistency, I don't want to start discussion whether paras are balanced or not. But their range is long indeed. Reducing it would be a strong nerf to Axis, question is of consistency is more important.

Paratrooper range another major issue. I would think top players are attacking Brits w/ paras same time as low countries + French. Sealion has to be very easy, with 1 lr research & paratrooper you can reach Manchester from Amsterdam. In the Europe game you can reach just south of London. Maps 35-50% smaller than Europe same paratrooper range.

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RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 5:12:14 PM

pjg100
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In my limited experience, Sealion is difficult in WAW even with the current para range, unless the Allied player leaves the UK unusually exposed. It's one thing to land some paras in the Midlands, it's another to keep them alive after doing so. In fact, I think that the smaller scale of the map in WAW makes Sealion significantly more difficult than it is in WIE, due to the Allied player's greater ability to cover the necessary ports and towns in the south of England. And you won't get any benefit from LR research unless you double chit (at 350 MPPs) and even then not until late summer 1940 without at least one research advance hit. So, I think if para range is nerfed that will be a significant hit to Axis, in light of the fact that paras have to take off from at least one hex behind the front and that useful landing zones can be more easily covered than in WIE due to the smaller scale of the map.

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RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 5:42:53 PM

Dorky8
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I know Fafnir is top dog but looks like the other guy ain't chopped liver according to ELO

From the AAR looks like paratroopers in London in April '40 (thats early

)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpuncher

April, 1940: After the bombing raids by the entire Luftwaffe (was good weather during Axis turn), and a couple daring Parachute drops, London fell.

This is the first major event that would shape the course of the war.

This came as a complete surprise, as after researching Fafnir's forum posts, I was under the impression that he would never do a Sealion. I didn't upgrade the AA of the garrison, nor London city. Luckily, I had a few units on the island to contain the paratroopers. The Axis had to use her entire air force for many turns afterwards to support the paras, which slowed down the progress in France.

The capture of London boosted German morale to an insane level (even at the end of the war, German NM was close to 110%), which helped to create all of the invincible German units that would kill anything in sight. It also mobilized Turkey and Spain greatly to the Axis side, who both eventually joined by additional Axis efforts. Both Turkey and Spain are extremely important to the Axis cause. TBH, later when Turkey was preparing for war, I thought I could have lost the game, as the Russian southern flank became wide open.

On the other hand, this also mobilized US from 35% to 53%, and Russia 22% to 45%. These are huge numbers, and they are early mobilizations, which would have their effects snowballed turn by turn. Now Russia has more than a year to have good income every turn to research and buy units. And USA would put in insane amount of research that when war broke out for her, she is very much ready to strike back.

It's hard to judge which side benefited more from this, though I"m inclined to say the Allies got more.

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RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 6:07:57 PM

ElvisJJonesRambo
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Aren't the Beatles suppose to be in Liverpool?

Just got ghosted:

This happened once before
When I came to your door
No reply
They said it wasn't you
But I saw you peep through
Your window
I saw the light
I saw the light
I know that you saw me
As I looked up to see
Your face
I tried to telephone
They said you were not home
That's a lie
'Cos I know where you've been
And I saw you walk in
Your door

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Post #: 27

RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 6:24:45 PM

Dorky8
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Yes but "The Who" (a better band IMO)is from London

YEAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

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Post #: 28

RE: Not for me - 2/22/2021 7:17:11 PM

ElvisJJonesRambo
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I couldn't tell you London Bridge from Big Balls Clock to Prince Hairy.

But for English Invasion.

Clash
Small Faces
Kinks

You mention the Boss. Had to let him go. Born in the USA ain't nice.

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Post #: 29