T110

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

T110

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> After Action Reports >> T110

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

T110 - 2/12/2021 11:30:16 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

31 July 1943

This takes the game up to T110.

Background

The final weeks of June saw the after-shocks of the earlier Soviet offensives. Both sides made limited attacks seeking to gain (or retake) key sectors for the next phase but there was little sustained action.

However, Smolensk was liberated on 27 June, leaving the Soviet forces well placed to push on towards Vitebsk.

With that complete, the long awaited Soviet Ukrainian offensive opened on 4 July. As before, Bryansk Front quickly became entangled in strong German defences but SW Front broke though and exploited to a depth of 60 miles reaching the outskirts of Poltava.

[1]

In turn, the German response was their own, clearly well prepared, offensive at Leningrad presumably designed to shore up Finland's commitment to the war.

[2]

However, the Soviet offensive gained momentum as Bryansk Front managed to break out and SW Front tried to encircle the bypassed German formations west of Kharkov.

By 26 July, this had become a major crisis for the Germans. Bryansk Front gained 40 miles and elements of SW and Voronezh Fronts met at the base of the German salient.

[3]

Even worse for the Germans, Western and Central Fronts renewed their offensives and almost crossed the Dnepr at Orsha.

T110

So to summarise. The AI is on the offensive at Leningrad. My problem is the old one here � I struggle to replace losses due to the strained supply networks here (and they have cut the rail to Leningrad again). It was at this stage I decided I had no choice but to commit my reserves to stabilise the situation.

The AI has reacted decisively to my opportunistic offensive at Smolensk, and I opted to pull back a bit. I can't really sustain two major operations and there is no point in expending effort for a hex here or there. So the Dnepr remains a barrier but I am well placed to attack towards Vitebsk.

In the south, the AI broke my pocket but I've managed to reseal it. For the moment this is of more interest than moving onwards. I need to have that bulge removed to free up my supply lines and there is the lure of destroying 4-6 divisions.

Bryansk Front is out of CPP but well placed to outflank all the AI's defensive lines if it can break out again.

Losses on the ground. I'm at the stage where my T34s are really badly outclassed. The new SP guns make a difference but not that many actually at the front for the moment.

The air war carries on being a case of taking the losses for the rewards. That turn was particularly bad for the A2A aspect.

OOB � not really changing very much, if anything the Germans are strengthening (this will be the result of their post-Stalingrad short term manpower boost). I'm happy to keep my on-map army around 7.2m as that doesn't put too much stress on my supply networks.

I am having to be more disciplined about depot management now as my army grows in size and mobility and I press west.

[1] Few things there, my usual 3 hex wide breakthrough to clear the path, this is increasingly easy to achieve as I have more Rifle Corps and artillery divisions. Also Kharkov has been built up as a super-depot with an NKPS formation, an army HQ and it has a large rail yard.

[2] This did surprise me, even worse in the next few weeks they sustained it and actually threatened the city, forcing the diversion of one of my reserve Armies to the sector. I've been running this sector down for over a year and it is commanded by a fairly inept bunch, I've dismantled the local supply network and have no Rifle Corps present.

Maybe not the best use of the AI's assets, but it was to be a well resourced, sustained offensive that was to prove very distracting.

[3] Note how Kharkov is performing, it is working almost at full capacity, processing supply for the front line formations as well as holding a large stock. Sumy is now also a super-depot. Thus while I am burning off my CPP, my basic supply situation is good, despite all the armoured formations I have in action.

_____________________________

(in reply to DekeFentle)

Post #: 121

In-game management of the air force - 2/12/2021 11:36:03 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

Managing the Air War

Red Lancer has discussed some of the tools for this and in the last post I discussed some of the mechanics and how you can see what effect it is having.

Now this shows the situation at the end of T110 so my formations have been in action all turn.

This shows the deployment of the formations in the N Ukraine. There are 4 air armies (17, almost out of shot, 2, 8 and 16). They change colour to reflect the front they are notionally associated with (which is more critical for the AI assist) but can run missions for any Soviet front or army HQ (or sector).

Now I am (voluntarily) using an intermediate level for my stronger air commands the xxK formations � I'll come back to why below.

The basic Soviet air OOB is the Air Army and then a number of AOGs. Each air army can have pretty much limitless assets but each AOG is between 1-5 individual air groups.

The AOGs are limited in the types of planes you can assign (this is all controlled by the game routines), so an IAD must have just Fighter-Bombers or Fighters.

If you left click on an AOG label, it will show you the air bases it is actually using, how many air groups are present, what air directives it is part of (here they are all supporting GS). You also see more detail on the rhs of the main screen.

If you right click on the label, you can use this to order new formations from the reserve (and this can be done at the individual AOG level or using one of the commands). I find that a quick way to replenish that turn's losses � remember I am sending weakened formations back to the reserve to train up again. You can do this either via the Commander's Report or the air group label. I mostly use the CR for these returns as I tend to start each turn in there doing my admin tasks (and can create my own criteria rather than that the air group is simply depleted. for eg, I send back low experience units and those with many missing pilots).

Now this is neat, it will assign them to local airbases and you can read across to the display to see what that AOG already has. I like to keep similar types in a given AOG, so my fighters are either the Yak-1/7B or La5 in one type or the longer ranged Yak-9D or LL stuff in others.

To redeploy, click on any level and that will select all the assigned lower levels, so if I click on 8 AA then I can move everything. You can resize the target boxes as you need to control which airbases will be used.

So here, I've just clicked on 8 AA and told it to move closer to the front. Now this is not a great idea for 2 reasons. First I don't need to, even my short range formations are still in range and all that will do is compete with my spearheads for supply. Second, none of the air bases are ready � that red indicator tells me that I lack fuel, ammo and support squads and common sense tells me that to rectify that will mean my advanced ground formations will run short.

But you can move 100s of planes in a single set of mouse clicks. So even if, like me, you prefer to directly manage the air war the functionality makes this a lot easier.

So final point, why am I using the xxK level?

Well its for ease of organisation. This means I can move all my Sturmovik formations as a group (and this is something I would do as they need to be close to the front). Even better I can link the I-- formations that are actually ground attack bombers to the air command so I can see them at a glance. Here 205 IAD is deploying Yak-9Ts, a useful tank buster plane that really needs to operate with the Sturmoviks.

Later on, with my larger air armies I ended up with 2 IAK formations, one holding the standard short range fighters and one with the longer ranged ones. Again it makes it easy to find them and to move them as needed as the front line shifts.

The German player can make up similar packages of planes to ease the process of moving them. They need to use the Luftflotte-AOG relationship but have an intermediate Korps level. Create a grouping of say 2 fighter AOGs, one of Stukas and one with short range bi-plane recon planes. That is designed to then follow a Pzr Grp while the longer ranged bombers, recon, and fighters can sit back. Again you don't need to remember which ones you have in this role and you can move them as a package rather then one by one.

At the other end of the scale, you can still move individual air groups, but that is in Red Lancer's post and the manual.

_____________________________

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 122

RE: In-game management of the air force - 2/12/2021 2:32:23 PM

Shiversprite

Posts: 5
Joined: 12/1/2019
From: Denmark-Norway
Status: offline

I look forward to trying this game once it get's released

_____________________________

The more difficult the scenario, the more rewarding it is to upset the inevitable assumed outcome.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 123

RE: In-game management of the air force - 2/12/2021 8:06:22 PM

John B.

Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline

I'm very impressed that the AI was able to pull off an offensive the regained some initiative and that it pulled back from the pocket.

(in reply to Shiversprite)

Post #: 124

RE: Defending the Rodina - A Soviet WiTE2 AAR - 2/13/2021 11:23:55 AM

rij1298

Posts: 1
Joined: 2/13/2021
Status: offline

I have some of question.

In WITE 1 case, When the 3 airborn brigades units build up to divisions.
We could not divided to brigades for airborn operation.
Was this solved in WITE2?

The Luftwaffe has a command unit called by 'stab'
But in Wite 1. It was just the same as the combat air unit.
Has it changed in WITE2?

In wite1, the Luftwaffe had a unit called Geschwader.
However, in WITE1, even if they belonged to the same or different Geschwader, they did not receive bonuses or penalties.

I am not good at English, but I hope it is well communicated.
Korean players are looking forward to wite2.
Thanks You!

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 125

RE: In-game management of the air force - 2/13/2021 11:57:24 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shiversprite

I look forward to trying this game once it get's released

best advice is take it slowly, there is a lot (obviously) but use the smaller scenarios and the AI support at first. We have tried to write the documentation so you can see what really matters before slowly going down into the detail.

Now of course, I'm aware that many people will set off directly into the 1941 grand campaign, but if you do, prepare to have to restart a few times

quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

I'm very impressed that the AI was able to pull off an offensive the regained some initiative and that it pulled back from the pocket.

It will often cluster attacks so they all fall on a narrow sector - which given the way that poor quality units pick up losses is a good operational tactic. But I was impressed/swearing whne it picked a valuable but weak spot and persisted turn after turn with an offensive.

In the main it is reasonably flank aware and good at attacking in to free up units. You will encircle far more vs the AI than in HtH but its basically ok at reading those situations (in this sense 'basically ok' is high praise)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rij1298

I have some of question.

In WITE 1 case, When the 3 airborn brigades units build up to divisions.
We could not divided to brigades for airborn operation.
Was this solved in WITE2?

The Luftwaffe has a command unit called by 'stab'
But in Wite 1. It was just the same as the combat air unit.
Has it changed in WITE2?

In wite1, the Luftwaffe had a unit called Geschwader.
However, in WITE1, even if they belonged to the same or different Geschwader, they did not receive bonuses or penalties.

I am not good at English, but I hope it is well communicated.
Korean players are looking forward to wite2.
Thanks You!

With the Soviets, you can build up the airborne brigades to a division but not break down - so much the same. But ... many at-start brigades automatically disband in late 1942 and then return as divisions. So I would never build up the few that remain as brigades in WiTE2, just keep them in case you find a use for them. From late 1942 you can build completed new airborne brigades and Gds airborne divisions. I wouldn't bother, you can't really use your airborne assets and the air borne divisions tend to have lower mobility than your standard rifle formations.

Yes the Stab remain as just small air groups, at start they often have the best pilots. The key difference in WiTE2 is the air commmand system. Your air groups are put into larger air operational groups and you mostly move/issue commands at that level. So mostly much less effort for the player - once you get used to the new system

hope you enjoy the game on release

_____________________________

(in reply to John B.)

Post #: 126

RE: In-game management of the air force - 2/13/2021 3:52:44 PM

Wuffer

Posts: 402
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

Loki,

what did your guys eat? Look at Turn 110, second picture, the RifleCorps eastern Orsha.
Mushrooms? Probably nordic ancestry :-)))

Seriously, how did combat and command points scale on CV?
Nice AAR btw, us usual one might add.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 127

RE: In-game management of the air force - 2/13/2021 4:43:25 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

Loki,

what did your guys eat? Look at Turn 110, second picture, the RifleCorps eastern Orsha.
Mushrooms? Probably nordic ancestry :-)))

Seriously, how did combat and command points scale on CV?
Nice AAR btw, us usual one might add.

the 70-4? Well it has near 100 CPP (it was at 100 and moved 8 hexes), so the baseline is say 38-40. The 2 Rifle Brigades add 5 CV each, the heavy tank regiment 1.5. So the core corps CV s around 27-29.

Everything else comes from the CPP bonus.

You can see this a bit as the 39-4 to its east is down to 38 CPP with a similar set of SU attachments.

For the Soviet player, resting to let your formations rebuild their CPP - either by echelon attacks or simply stalling an offensive is so key to success. They also partly offset the dire admin/initiative values of many Soviet leaders (as the CPP is used in a test that avoids that part of the MP calculation).

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

(in reply to Wuffer)

Post #: 128

RE: In-game management of the air force - 2/13/2021 5:34:17 PM

Wuffer

Posts: 402
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

thx for the answer. A promising and interesting approach, overstrech yourself by moving a hex or two too far and you weaken yourself, I see.
What I like too is that the AI seemed to have quite a few units allways in deep reserve and recovering. Probably not an easy task to write this. :D
So far, so good.
dawai, dawai!

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 129

RE: In-game management of the air force - 2/15/2021 9:13:31 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

yes, careful placement of follow on units really matters. With the Germans in 1941 as you move up your infantry keeping a few MP spare and staying in controlled (not captured that turn) territory can make such a huge difference to their combat power when they arrive at the front. If you just push them east they may arrive a turn early but will have little or no offensive value.

Of course, you may need to march them as hard as you can so the Pzrs can pull off the front lines so its one of those nice trade offs that are key to the design of WiTE2.

With the Soviets, CPP are really important both for set-piece breakouts and to keep MP up, but again, there are times when you just need to keep pushing to exploit a temporary advantage or reach a key city by a certain date.

_____________________________

(in reply to Wuffer)

Post #: 130

T117 - 2/15/2021 9:19:21 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

18 September 1943

This takes the game up to the end of T117.

Background

Early August saw a brief lull in the Ukraine as the bypassed pockets were destroyed and a limited attack by Western Front towards Vitebsk. By the 21 August, Bryansk Front tried to break out towards the Desna but was slowed by strong German resistance.

At the same time Western and Central Fronts carried on with their localised offensives aiming to clear the land-bridge and secure the line of the Dnepr for future operations. Orsha and Vitebsk were taken by 28 August.

To the south, Bryansk Front remained caught up in heavy fighting as it pushed towards the Desna but SW Front had more success. Elements of 7 GA managed to secure a bridgehead over the Dnepr and, in co-operation with Stalingrad Front, the rest of SW Front encircled Axis formations north of Dnepropetrovsk.

The next week saw heavy fighting as the Germans freed most of the cut off formations but the Soviets managed to pocket some of the retreating units. Early September, saw these formations destroyed as Soviet forces reached the outskirts of Dnepropetrovsk, cleared the north bank of the Dnepr and built up their narrow bridgehead over the river.

Bryansk Front remained stalled by strong defences and counter-attacks east of Chernigov but Central Front broke the German lines to the north, threatening to encircle their forces holding the line of the Desna.

T117

So lets start with the turn summary. The losses along the top are those from T116 � as maybe clear I am not doing a good job at minimising the losses for the VVS. I've sorted out the truck problem even though I don't have much of a reserve. This has also allowed me to bring more artillery divisions and Mechanized Corps/Brigades out of the reserve.

The VP situation is starting to worry me. I need Kiev, Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporezhe by T120 to gain the full +6 bonus (Kiev by T121 on this criteria) and for all my gains, it is not easy to see this happening.

Of a longer term concern, I need to match the Axis High Water Mark (616) by the end of 1944. While I am clearly a long way short at the moment, reaching Romania will give me the score I need to pass that test.

This was pretty much the final event of the Axis offensive at Leningrad. As maybe clear, I have shifted to a Corps based defence and built up a lot here. All that has done is to secure a return to the basic stalemate here.

I've not been reporting on this as it was all rather low key and opportunistic. But Kalinin Front has managed to liberate Velikie-Luki by attacking along the rail line. In combination with Western Front's gains, this leaves me well placed for an offensive towards Daugavpils and to cut the supply lines to AGN. Equally Western Front can realistically now regard Minsk as a target for the winter of 1943-44.

For the moment, it is probably best to see Bryansk and Central Fronts as operating together. Steppe Front is holding the gap between the two. My view is gains by Central Front towards Gomel unhinge the German line along the Desna and also allow me to push into SE Bielorussia. Bryansk Front, in theory, is still going for Kiev, at least it has finally managed a clean break-out.

Another brief pause here. I was trying to work out what was the best option with SW Front. The obvious (VP-led) was to clear the Dnepr bend but that would take all the time up to the autumn rains and no guarantees that I would secure any of the time bonuses.

The alternative was to write off the bonuses for Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporezhye and strike for the Bug and Odessa. In effect, try to get my VP collection back on track by writing off the current front line cities. That way, hopefully I could secure Odessa (and Sevastopol) early and be well placed for an attack towards Rumania in the Spring/Summer 1944.

OOB. I'm no longer using the Moscow MD for defensive sectors. Western Front in particular is now safe from any sustained counter-attacks so content with level 1 fortifications (this also helps reduce secondary demands on my front line supply). Measure of the relative disaster at Leningrad, I now have 950,000 men stuck up there, simply to stabilise the front. Given that on some key sectors my flank security is very thin I have far better uses for them.

I've pushed the on-map army to 7.4m, no real change to the Axis numbers.

Ground losses � fairly typical for this set of turns. The 1944 tanks can't arrive too soon.

Destroyed list. Note the Western Allies have finally cleared North Africa, so the invasion of Sicily will probably not happen till October 1943. I'm still losing the occasional over-extended Cavalry division.

Air losses � by my terms, that wasn't too bad.

I now have 115 on map Corps. 29 Tank (18 Guards), 5 Mechanized, 67 Rifle (49 Guards) and 13 Cavalry (all Guards). There are 5 Rifle Corps in the reserve � my emergency reserve. Have 13 on-map artillery or rocket divisions

_____________________________

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 131

RE: T117 - 2/15/2021 12:56:20 PM

MAS

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/25/2015
Status: offline

quote:

Another brief pause here. I was trying to work out what was the best option with SW Front. The obvious (VP-led) was to clear the Dnepr bend but that would take all the time up to the autumn rains and no guarantees that I would secure any of the time bonuses.

The alternative was to write off the bonuses for Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporezhye and strike for the Bug and Odessa. In effect, try to get my VP collection back on track by writing off the current front line cities. That way, hopefully I could secure Odessa (and Sevastopol) early and be well placed for an attack towards Rumania in the Spring/Summer 1944.

What decision re: drive for Bug / Odessa vs. time bonuses for Dnepropetrovsk / Zaporozhye did you make? It looks like the AI is stubbornly trying to hold east of Dnepropetrovsk and the Dnepr bend. If this is the case, would shifting SW Front's focus west to your Dnepr bridgehead and the apparently weak German line from there northwards allow you to drive south to Nikopol or SW to Odessa and compel the AI to give up those cities anyway?

Or would that even be logistically possible with only a single track line Krasnograd - Kremenchug to support that direction. Your AAR / WITE2 presentation is excellent! Thanks and keep up the great work!

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 132

RE: T117 - 2/15/2021 1:28:59 PM

CapAndGown

Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline

It is probably too late for any changes in this regard, but: it would help your's and others' AARs if the font sizes for the names of larger cities were at least double is size. The rather small font for an important city like Smolensk or Dnepropetrovsk makes the AAR harder to follow, especially when you add weather graphics which further obscure the terrain. It hard to place just where events are taking place.

Having easy to follow AARs should be a design concern for Matrix since good AARs are a good marketing tool.

(in reply to MAS)

Post #: 133

RE: T117 - 2/15/2021 1:42:21 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MAS

quote:

Another brief pause here. I was trying to work out what was the best option with SW Front. The obvious (VP-led) was to clear the Dnepr bend but that would take all the time up to the autumn rains and no guarantees that I would secure any of the time bonuses.

The alternative was to write off the bonuses for Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporezhye and strike for the Bug and Odessa. In effect, try to get my VP collection back on track by writing off the current front line cities. That way, hopefully I could secure Odessa (and Sevastopol) early and be well placed for an attack towards Rumania in the Spring/Summer 1944.

What decision re: drive for Bug / Odessa vs. time bonuses for Dnepropetrovsk / Zaporozhye did you make? It looks like the AI is stubbornly trying to hold east of Dnepropetrovsk and the Dnepr bend. If this is the case, would shifting SW Front's focus west to your Dnepr bridgehead and the apparently weak German line from there northwards allow you to drive south to Nikopol or SW to Odessa and compel the AI to give up those cities anyway?

Or would that even be logistically possible with only a single track line Krasnograd - Kremenchug to support that direction. Your AAR / WITE2 presentation is excellent! Thanks and keep up the great work!

That turn, I tried to use SW Front to dislodge the AI from Dnepropetrovsk (hence the armour to the east of the city).

Its clear I've just driven into an area with massive defensive stacks so its going to become a hex/turn to make any progress. As with the Pzrs in 1941/2, ideally my Tank and Mech Corps are not there to actually attack things but to by-pass them as they exploit gaps.

So my revised logic was I was going to miss the time bonuses for Dnepropetrovsk/Zaporozhye in any case. If I fought for them directly, then I'd probably be chasing time for Odessa too and possibly places like Lvov. A bigger issue is I really should have some of the formations in Western Front down here for this phase, but they ended up there in the earlier fighting and it was hard to release them.

So I re-organised and struck SW instead. In the end I had to stop as the AI created a long salient and Stalingrad Front was too weak to collapse their positions from the east, but the bit that mattered was in the end I came out well placed to claim Odessa ahead of time.

You're right about Kremenchug, securing that rail crossing was the basis of my next moves. In the end I needed both the railyards in Dnepropetrovsk and the dual line but I could manage quite a lot off a single line (using the super-depot concept)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

It is probably too late for any changes in this regard, but: it would help your's and others' AARs if the font sizes for the names of larger cities were at least double is size. The rather small font for an important city like Smolensk or Dnepropetrovsk makes the AAR harder to follow, especially when you add weather graphics which further obscure the terrain. It hard to place just where events are taking place.

Having easy to follow AARs should be a design concern for Matrix since good AARs are a good marketing tool.

Some images are deliberately zoomed out and as you know from WiTE1 the counters sit on the map, so lots of counters means the map can get obscured. Again as in WiTE1, you can alter the display to hide the counters.

I mean, realistically, the audience for this at the moment is most likely to be WiTE1 players, so I'd be genuinely surprised if any of that group weren't aware where Dnepropetrovsk is, especially in an image focussed on the Dnepr bend?

Or am I missing the question you intended to pose?

< Message edited by loki100 -- 2/15/2021 1:45:19 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to MAS)

Post #: 134

RE: T117 - 2/15/2021 2:03:32 PM

Sammy5IsAlive

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

It is probably too late for any changes in this regard, but: it would help your's and others' AARs if the font sizes for the names of larger cities were at least double is size. The rather small font for an important city like Smolensk or Dnepropetrovsk makes the AAR harder to follow, especially when you add weather graphics which further obscure the terrain. It hard to place just where events are taking place.

Having easy to follow AARs should be a design concern for Matrix since good AARs are a good marketing tool.

Looking at the screenshots there are the bigger region names in pale grey that should help to orientate yourself. I think that once you are playing 'your' game and the map is 'in motion' it won't be such an issue knowing which city is where.

In purely aesthetic terms I would agree that I preferred the slightly larger and capitalised city names in WITE1 (including the 'original' map) and the sans-serif font that Jison's map mod used for all the names on the map (inc. towns and rivers etc). I guess that just comes down to personal preference though - I'd be interested to know how easily something like that is moddable?

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 2/15/2021 2:05:48 PM >

(in reply to CapAndGown)

Post #: 135

RE: T117 - 2/15/2021 2:16:34 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

....

Looking at the screenshots there are the bigger region names in pale grey that should help to orientate yourself. I think that once you are playing 'your' game and the map is 'in motion' it won't be such an issue knowing which city is where.

In purely aesthetic terms I would agree that I preferred the slightly larger and capitalised city names in WITE1 (including the 'original' map) and the sans-serif font that Jison's map mod used for all the names on the map (inc. towns and rivers etc). I guess that just comes down to personal preference though - I'd be interested to know how easily something like that is moddable?

Red Lancer is far better placed to answer this than I ever will be. I have no illusions about my graphical skills. More importantly, I'm not sure what is in the .exe and what is in the moddable files. Clearly you can mod the terrain effects as you wish. In the game files I can .dat files (so you could mod them) for things like the on-map text and place names. What I'm really not sure is how this would then show, whether you could expand the font size but I doubt you can change how the on-map images interact with the counters.

The painted map style as in WiTE1 (or the older AGEOD games) can be quite stunning and made into a historical document in its own right. But not only is it processore intensive, its a right royal pain to modify, so errors tend to be left alone simply as no one can justify the cost of a complete overhaul. If a given hex in WiTE2 is 'wrong' its correctable with ease.

We had a discussion over the location of Smolensk a while back. The city spans the Dnepr, the population areas are probably more to the south than the north but the civic buildings and rail and road infrastructure is to the north. Its not really large enough to justify a 2 hex city set up. Key bit was there was no feeling that the map design was a constraint, if it was better to the south, then move it. Also the rail net has had a lot of work during the testing process and again it is relatively easy to shift to fit emerging research.

_____________________________

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)

Post #: 136

RE: T117 - 2/15/2021 3:54:10 PM

RedLancer

Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

The map has been designed first and foremost for those playing the game. It is very dynamic as the five zoom settings are in most regards independent of themselves. Nowhere is this more flexible than the map text. As you zoom in and out the text can be turned on and off, change size, position, orientation, font, colour and opacity. As you navigate the map then we have tried to provide the best balance of presented information.

I appreciate that for AARs this dynamism is lost as ultimately we are taking screenshots constrained by the size of the screen and the information that is imparted.

The whole setup is extremely moddable against the criteria set out above. The screenshot shows the map text editor.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RedLancer -- 2/15/2021 3:59:16 PM >

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 137

RE: T117 - 2/15/2021 3:59:06 PM

Sammy5IsAlive

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer

The map has been designed first and foremost for those playing the game. It is very dynamic as the five zoom settings are in most regards independent of themselves. Nowhere is this more flexible than the map text. As you zoom in and out the text can be turned on and off, change size, position, font, colour and opacity. As you navigate the map then we have tried to provide the best balance of presented information.

I appreciate that for AARs this dynamism is lost as ultimately we are taking screenshots constrained by the size of the screen and the information that is imparted.

The whole setup is extremely moddable against the criteria set out above.

Sounds good :) both in terms of the dynamism and moddability.

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 138

T125 - 2/17/2021 3:48:13 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

13 November 1943

Based on T125

Just a general point], a new patch has changed how older game saves are being displayed by slightly altering the FOW rules. Since the saves I am using for the images are from the original game they are affected. The consequence is it looks like the Germans have a lot of 1-1 formations, they don't but can't get around this - so just take their apparent combat power with a very large pinch of salt.

Background

Mid-September finally saw Bryansk Front start to make significant gains [1] whileSW Front disengaged from the Dnepropetrovsk battles in preparation for an offensive further west. The rail junction at Kremenchug and a bridgehead over the Dnepr were secured by early October.

By the end of September, Western Front had recrossed the Berezina and for the first time Minsk started to appear on operational maps.

Equally the lead elements of Bryansk Front were now only 20 miles from Kiev.

Soviet forces entered eastern Kiev on 8 October, liberated Gomel on the 6 as SW Front established itself on the south bank of the Dnepr. Heavy rains from 10 October stopped all operations by Western and Central Fronts but Bryansk Front crossed the Dnepr south of Kiev as it prepared to regain the capital of the Ukraine

In an attempt to hasten the capture of the Dnepr bend and regain the Crimea, Soviet troops had landed near Feodosiya on 4 October and by the 16th had cut off the Kerch Peninsula.

Facing encirclement, the Germans abandoned Kiev on 22 October as the autumnal rains swept across the Ukraine [2], bringing most operations to a close.

The start of November saw the renamed 3 Ukrainian Front return to the offensive breaking out of its bridgehead and reaching Krivoi Rog.

T125

So start of the winter of 1943-44 is a good spot for a wider catch up. First, this winter is 'mild' (it was the warmest of the war years), the immediate impact is going to be a lack of blizzards apart from on the northern sector. That means the major rivers will not freeze and may remain with moving ice for a lot of the time (one of the reasons why I was hunting bridgeheads in the autumn battles). Even smaller rivers will often not fully freeze.

On the other hand, it is likely to have more air operations and perhaps more ground mobility (snow not heavy snow) unless it suddenly rains.

Leningrad. Well I have finally gained the initiative here. Its a long way to anything that matters but if I can push them behind the Narva and over the Luga then I set in train the sequence of events that can lead to Finland asking for an armistice.

From my perspective, I have a free choice of tempo here, in the end AGN is more threatened by my gains in Bielorussia than grinding out a hex by hex offensive on this sector.

For the moment, 1 Baltic Front and the northern element of Western Front are working together along the Dvina/Dauga. The prize is Daugavipils and the dual track rail to Pskov. AGN can still be readily supplied via the Estonian rail net and ports but that cuts the main communication route in and out.

Needless to say, my eyes are on Minsk. The renamed 1 Belorussian Front (henceforth 1 Blr), the old Central Front, has been involved in constant battles clearing its way into SE Belorussia but the bulk of Western Front has built up, is well supplied and well supported by the VVS. Equally what it lacks in mobile assets, it more than makes up with artillery.

2 Ukrainian will hold the gap between the main offensive fronts and try to clear the Pripyet marshes.

Of more importance 1 Ukr is recovering after the Kiev battles and well placed to either attack towards Zhitomir or south. Just I need to resolve the rather chaotic situation to the south-east.

3 Ukr (was SW) and 4 Ukr (Stalingrad Front) need to clear the Dnepr bend (I have long last the VP bonus there). The immediate problem is that 3 Ukr is badly stretched, I want to go SW but need to clear the salient up to Dnepropetrovsk and protect the linkage to 1 Ukr.

Not shown but Sevastopol was liberated and I am building up for a naval/paratroop invasion of Rumania.

OOB.

Some changes but reflects my priority. 1 Blr + Western Fronts have over 2m men, 2,400 planes and 4,900 tanks. 1, 3 and 4 Ukr have 2.4m men, 2,800 planes and 11,000 tanks.

No real change in the big numbers.

The VP chart. Targets for the next phase are Odessa and Lvov in the south, Minsk, Pskov, Talinin and Riga in the north and taking Finland out. The useful thing is apart from Odessa, I am not under any immediate time pressures.

No chance of reaching the sudden death conditions but now more optimistic about the end of 1944 test.

Small thing, but both sides are picking up regular VP bonus for having excess forces in the Theatre Boxes. That reflects the slow progress of the Western Allies (at this stage still not in mainland Italy) and the looming threat to Finland.

Losses, while the OOB data suggests the Germans are keeping their strength constant I am starting to push their permanent killed + captured losses towards 2.5m. At some stage, that will start to impact on their ability to restore destroyed formations.

Air losses, finally seeing a shift. The A2A ratio is improving and that turn my flak was effective � the less optimistic reading is the LW committed itself to some substantial amounts of GS.

Air craft production is shifting. The La-5FN is the first really good fighter. I don't have a lot of spare modern planes so still using the obsolete ones for training purposes [3].

I've mentioned the artillery situation a few times. This maybe makes it plain, I have lots of mortars, 76mm guns and rockets. For everything else, the limited production is immediately claimed.

So I am concentrating on Support Units that use what I have to spare and trying to keep the heavier guns for the artillery divisions.

[1] While the usual advice is to take care of your CPP, there are times for both sides when you can keep up the pressure, if your opponent is also at the end of their combat capacity. Here I both wanted Kiev for the VP bonus (so a nice example of politics dictating operational tempo) and finally a strong group of German formations are badly worn down.

[2] So it fell on the last turn of the +6 bonus, suspect a human opponent would not have pulled back despite the flank threats as the weather changed dramatically.

[3] If you are used to WiTW, then the training system is very different. It is more or less automatic and happens in the reserve for air groups with experience < national morale. You can stop it by telling them to rest but then they never build up experience so best approach is just to let it happen.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 2/18/2021 7:08:18 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)

Post #: 139

RE: T125 - 2/17/2021 11:52:43 PM

Elessar2

Posts: 883
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline

Just wondering why so many German units, including several armor units, have CV's of one. Did their supply all get porked by partisans or something?

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 140

RE: T125 - 2/18/2021 12:10:41 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

This is explained in the first paragraph above:

"Just a general point], a new patch has changed how older game saves are being displayed by slightly altering the FOW rules. Since the saves I am using for the images are from the original game they are affected. The consequence is it looks like the Germans have a lot of 1-1 formations, they don't but can't get around this - so just take their apparent combat power with a very large pinch of salt."

Loki is loading older test saves to write up the AAR and they're not 100% compatible with the current version.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Elessar2)

Post #: 141

RE: T125 - 2/18/2021 10:52:17 PM

vvs007

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline

a few questions:
theater boxes
- there is no control of the resistance from the SU-player, we can not add Li2s and night bombers, distribute weapons and resources to support the partisans? :(
- Did I understand correctly that aviation in t-boxes follows simplified rules, what will happen if we send all SU aviation to the Finnish front? will it get an accelerated training (better than in reserve)? what if we send only bombers without fighters? Will they be eaten or not?

production
-on the screen of the production of aircrafts, there is information about the needes (minuses), but the artillery does not have this, is it turned on / off?

an unusual increase in the number of non-German units on the map despite losses in the encirclement, is this a new reading of historical data? :) in wite1 it was low

W on the old screenshot of the rifle corp (did I miss the answer?) - is it the presence of winter equipment? disadvantage means huge operating losses with blizzard?

WITE2 looks great, thanks to the development team! ... Perhaps only the Luftwaffe is too strong, the AAR-losses are far from historical :)

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 142

RE: T125 - 2/19/2021 7:52:00 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vvs007

a few questions:
theater boxes
- there is no control of the resistance from the SU-player, we can not add Li2s and night bombers, distribute weapons and resources to support the partisans? :(
- Did I understand correctly that aviation in t-boxes follows simplified rules, what will happen if we send all SU aviation to the Finnish front? will it get an accelerated training (better than in reserve)? what if we send only bombers without fighters? Will they be eaten or not?

production
-on the screen of the production of aircrafts, there is information about the needes (minuses), but the artillery does not have this, is it turned on / off?

an unusual increase in the number of non-German units on the map despite losses in the encirclement, is this a new reading of historical data? :) in wite1 it was low

W on the old screenshot of the rifle corp (did I miss the answer?) - is it the presence of winter equipment? disadvantage means huge operating losses with blizzard?

WITE2 looks great, thanks to the development team! ... Perhaps only the Luftwaffe is too strong, the AAR-losses are far from historical :)

do my best to answer:

1) theatres, yes the Soviet player is passive in the Partisan theatre. Technically that is called the 'Soviet Union garrison box' for the axis only. Its used by the axis player - by default most of the German security divisions plus stuff from their allies go into it by about T6 - the German player can voluntarily add more. The effect of the partisans is then driven by events and a comparison of this baseline performance to the size of the garrison (so if the Germans are short the partisans are more effective). In the main the partisans deliver low level interdiction - enough to stop admin movement but no more, in a few instances they launch major campaigns (such as around Orel in 1943 or Minsk in 1944).

Now what a Soviet player can then do, is on map interdiction ground attacks and double team with this scripted interdiction. Put enough effort into that as a localised operation and you might start to noticeable hamper Axis movement - but I'm not sure its really worth it.

As with the factory evacuation system, a lot of sub-systems that have disproportionate attention in WiTE1 simply happen in WiTE2.

2) the air war. Yes you need to meet the theatre requirements and this has both fighters and bombers. But when there nothing really happens, the 'intensity' (from none to very high) sets a rate of attrition losses. You don't get a training bonus for the other theatres but low experience units will reach their standard NM derived values over time.

3) not sure why, but the 'need' number is only there for elements that are produced via the chassis system, so most vehicles have it to but not those produced via the generic production rules. The air number is particularly useful as you have a greater degree of control over the allocation of plane types than over ground elements

4) Axis-Allied are down around 40,000 men between the last 2 reports which I think reflects the pockets and combat losses fairly well. From playing the axis in the Stalingrad-Berlin scenario, you have decent Hungarian reserves so can often refit/replace them, by late 1943 lost Rumanian formations are nearly impossible to rebuild as you don't really have enough manpower to even replace regular combat losses.

The 'total forces' will include Italians in Italy/France/Balkans, Finnish and Bulgarian units

'W' takes you to a new screen. Red Lancer will cover this in one of his showcases but here's a wee peak, it gives you access to a nice historical write up of almost every major unit in the game:

bit hard to comment on matching air losses to history as it depends very much on play style to be honest. I see my airforce as a tool to use (a mindset from WiTW) but even so I'm actually restricting the commitment of the VVS compared to history, so in turn that restricts the losse for the LW. My feeling is few players are willing to burn off their air assets at the historical rate for the VVS

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by loki100 -- 2/19/2021 7:54:36 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to vvs007)

Post #: 143

RE: T125 - 2/19/2021 8:56:05 AM

Nix77

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

As with the factory evacuation system, a lot of sub-systems that have disproportionate attention in WiTE1 simply happen in WiTE2.

How do you feel this affects the overall flow of the game, compared to WitE1? Factory evacuation seemed to play a really big role in WitE1, not sure if it actually historically was that big driving factor in the German advance?

On the other hand having control on the factory evacuations felt like a nice subsystem for the Soviet player to control although it was often more about putting out fires than being in charge :D

Do the scripted evacuations in WitE2 affect rail capacity for the Soviet side?

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 144

T131 - 2/19/2021 9:06:07 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

25 December 1943

This takes the game up to T131. As a side note, given the display issue (it only affects saves from early patches), I've decided the best approach is to use images from the original full AAR. In turn, that makes it more logical to do very short turn by turn reports instead of a long narrative background.

T126

Mid-November finally saw the Soviets storm into Zaporozhye in heavy fighting. This shows which Soviet elements actually were engaged and their relative effectiveness. Due to the terrain, this was essentially an infantry battle.

At the same time, 1 and 2 Ukr struck west in the hope that 3 and 4 Ukr could reduce the salient in their rear. This was an opportunistic attack on a weakly held sector and the bulk of 1 Ukr ws held back.

T127

1 Blr has been fighting for several turns to improve the Soviet position along the Berezina, this turn Western Front managed to liberate Minsk.

T128

Finally making some real progress in the Dnepr bend. Securing the rail yards and better rail lines is now critical if I am to make any real progress into the Western Ukraine.

The results of the air war are becoming more variable. Some LW formations have relatively low experience and, if I outnumber them, I can sweep them from the skies. But every now and then, this sort of thing happens:

T129

The bulk of the front was stalled but fairly important events in the north and south. The Germans are still contesting my gains in the Leningrad sector but in combination with the Dauga/Dvina operations their position around Pskov is now under threat. At this stage I was dreaming of a Courland pocket that covered the whole of Estonia.

And in the Ukraine, finally Dnepropetrovsk falls. That has been on my target list since about t110.

T130

The Ukraine saw a massive redeployment as I finally was able to release 3 Ukr from the Dnepr bend battles.

T131

One bit of off-map news, the Western Allies finally forced Italy to surrender.

The 'Mild Winter' means that the weather is mostly snowfall/snow, river freezing is reaching #6. So a well defended major river is a serious challenge to cross but mostly movement is actually easier (no deep snow penalties).

At Leningrad, the AI is not giving up easily here but this time I held off some more heavy attacks and, unusually, could strike back. This is all a case of one step forward, one step back but slowly I'm altering control of some hexes to me.

1 and 2 Baltic Fronts making some gains, the AI regained the Pskov-Daugavipils rail but its now affected by my ZoC and reasonably optimistic I can hold some of the current line.

The bulk of Western Front started to run into stronger German formations so content to consolidate and re-organise. 1 Bl r made steady gains, handing off its southern flank to 2 Ukr.

In the Ukraine, 3 and 4 Ukr Fronts re-organising after the Dnepropetrovsk battles but 1 Ukr started an attack towards Zhitomir-Vinnitsa.

Well rested, 1 Ukr managed to breach a fairly strong defensive line and cut off the bulk of 2 Pzr divisions (I doubt the outer pocket will hold but the inner one will be hard to breach).

This is a significant change of tactics in that until recently I have gone around the stronger stacks. I now hit them hard � the result is they will be much weaker in the Axis turn and I face less counter-attacks as a result. My logic is best to fight a strong Pzr division when it is on the current front line and I bring in all the assets I want, rather than have it free to attack as it wants later on.

With the 1944 TOEs I often do this by choice, actually start with the stronger units and build up a breakthrough from there.

Ground losses, pretty much 1-1 now.

Even the air war is becoming more even � though I am being very careful about how much I allocate. What I am doing is turning off GS for a given air army once its losses hit a threshold. The advantage is that slowly the average experience of my pilots increases and I need to send relatively few wrecked formations back to the reserve to train up again.

OOB. My army is probably as large as I can supply effectively. I'd actually like to reduce it a little as I move west and my supply lines become stretched � as you can see the reserve is effectively emptied out.

One reason for the reduction in the reserves was I made a commitment to pushing Finland out as soon as I can. Some of that leap in manpower is scripted unit transfers, a lot is voluntarily adding to my strength. Once I have the wider Leningrad sector under control, Finland should crumble fairly quickly.

I don't know what the AI has in the matching 'Finland' theatre, I know they too have more than they need (they are gaining VP for excess forces), but I doubt they have the equivalent of a full Combined Arms army over their baseline numbers.

_____________________________

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 145

RE: T125 - 2/19/2021 9:15:45 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

quote:

As with the factory evacuation system, a lot of sub-systems that have disproportionate attention in WiTE1 simply happen in WiTE2.

How do you feel this affects the overall flow of the game, compared to WitE1? Factory evacuation seemed to play a really big role in WitE1, not sure if it actually historically was that big driving factor in the German advance?

On the other hand having control on the factory evacuations felt like a nice subsystem for the Soviet player to control although it was often more about putting out fires than being in charge :D

Do the scripted evacuations in WitE2 affect rail capacity for the Soviet side?

I think WiTE2 does a better job than WiTE1 in setting the role of the Soviet player. You are more obviously the Stavka not Stalin. So I agree that factory evac in WiTE1 is a big focus (I recally working out with some care how much HI/arms pts the Soviet player needed etc) but I've never looked at the evac screens in WiTE2 (apart from when I was writing the manual).

There is a lot of indirect streamlining in WiTE2, such as the partisan war and the production system. Given the complexity of what you have left that is very much to be welcomed. I think it also might mean the sort of player who seeks an advantage from their willingness to do endless clicks finds less scope and that MP games become more about operational planning and ability to use the key systems rather than knowing some obscure trick that only made sense in the context of the rule set.

Yes the evacuations use up your rail cap but in the main I find that in WiTE2 in 1941 I am not really that aware of my limits. In part as each sector has a unique rail capacity (the way the railyards operate) so its not global and also you are not railing in units from the Urals to the front so much (there are a few turns when you have a few but for eg the returning rebuild formations you can allocate readily around Moscow),

_____________________________

(in reply to Nix77)

Post #: 146

T138 - 2/21/2021 12:45:11 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

12 February 1944

This brings the game up to T138

T132

Main events in this turn were the capture of Daugavipils and Zhitomir and 3 Ukr starting its westwards offensive.

T133

Start of 1944 saw the Germans finally retreat at Leningrad and also start to abandon their remaining grip on the Dnepr bend.

I did a lot of re-organising, effectively disbanded the Volkhov Front as I don't need the command capacity and it will removed in February in any case. Also started to send the various mountain formations that have been in the north towards the Ukraine in anticipation of needing to cross the Carpathians.

T134

Mid January saw the German's not just restore their defensive lines but a series of bruising counter-attacks left a lot of my mobile formations in need of a refit [1]

On the other hand, did manage to capture Vilnius.

T135

Both sides resting north of the Pripyet but I made some small gains in the Ukraine. When it works, Soviet air power can be devastating � not least the next attack on the same sector also removed 200+ German elements from the combat before it even began. Just I can't sustain this level of commitment, and still have a lot of outcomes where my fighters are badly cut up.

T136

A rare turn with blizzards and the front actually moving. 3 Baltic (the old Leningrad Front) reaches the line of the Narva, 3 and 4 Ukr press on towards Nikolaev.

And good news from my allies.

Actually the most important event in that image is the 'Northern Offensive', I've now captured all the on-map triggers to set off the final attack on Finland. While at one level that is now rather unimportant, it does secure me the VP (and bonus) for Helsinki.

T137

The end of January saw 3 and 4 Ukr take Kherson and move into position along the Bug and outside Nikolaev. Again, there are times when I simply attack a strong front line stack to minimise the AI's capacity for counter-attacks.

With the local Axis reserves fully committed to the Bug battles, 1 Ukr fought its way towards Vinnitsa, given the lack of a clear breakthrough, kept the armour back to see what happens.

In the north, Soviet forces reach the Narva but any progress on this sector is slow due to the terrain and a lack of mobile assets.

T138

Ukraine. 1 Ukr makes more gains and briefly gains Vinnitsa (a German counter-attack will retake it), 3 Ukr is stuck in part due to German resistance but it also needs to repair its supply lines. Trying to supply a Front with mobile assets is a challenge when in one of these local black spots.

Not really shown, but 4 Ukr reaches a well defended Nikolaev.

The supply problem is that behind 3 and 4 Ukr I have a lot of unrepaired rail lines and am mostly usng the local NKPS to hook in key potential depots. So the overall dynamic is mostly hand to mouth.

By contrast, 1 Ukr can rely on Kiev. This has been set up to maximise capacity (the Front HQ) and priority (the static NKPS). That in turn either provides a relatively local source for my combat formations or readily pushes supply onto the depots closer to the front [2].

Western Front is now the 2 Blr but is stuck in its current position. By contrast, 1 Blr manages substantial gains and starts to secure some of the dual track rails I'll need when I reach the 1941 borders.

I was really not sure what to do with 2 Blr.

The logical target is directly west along the Neman but I need to reduce that German force between the Neman and Daugava. If they don't pull out, I can't concentrate to sustain a western attack so the best solution may well be to attack NW and make Lithuania the immediate target.

Steady progress in the north but since 2 Blr and 1 Baltic are stalled, there is no immediate threat to AGN's communications so gains are limited.

Ground losses, for most turns this is a typical pattern in that it is essentially 1-1. A few of my newest tanks starting to reach the front line units.

Air losses

I'm still using the Yak-1s and Lagg as ground attack aircraft. They are useful in this role due to their default payload and I lack the specialist planes for the task.

Still no recognisable change in the overall OOB.

[1] You'll find that both the Tank and Mech Corps are poor defensively until the 1944 TOE is adopted. My solution at this stage was to try and assign a motorised or mechanised brigade as a SU but each of those costs around 600 trucks and they too need to be pulled back to refit. I paid the price in that turn with 5 Corps left in a mess as a result of counter-attacks.

[2] Basically I am starting to hit the Soviet version of the 1941 German logistical challenge. The problem is slightly different as I am trying to supply 7.3m men, 18,000 tanks and over 7,000 planes but the consequence � and choices � are the same.

In effect, it is more important to have a well stocked depot network 5-10 hexes behind the front than worry too much about your railheads. But I have so much supply being moved that I can't just rely on the dual track lines I need the secondary links too. And of course, as I move on, a carefully constructed depot system falls too far behind to be of much use. So I need to balance usage of the NKPS between sorting out rail-depot connections and acting as multipliers at key locations.

Hence, combined with the CPP dynamics, all the pauses and sudden lunges.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 2/21/2021 12:57:42 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 147

RE: T138 - 2/21/2021 5:07:35 PM

MAS

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/25/2015
Status: offline

Thanks Roger, your posts whet the appetite and help to learn the new systems!

A possible AI weakness is shown in the two detailed combat screenshots. One shows the VII Hungarian Corps HQ commanding 2 kampfgruppen of the 11 Panzer Division, and the other the XI Hungarian Corps commanding the Totenkopf Division, which would seem to be a significant combat 'divisor' to these important German formations.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 148

RE: T138 - 2/21/2021 5:46:00 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MAS

Thanks Roger, your posts whet the appetite and help to learn the new systems!

A possible AI weakness is shown in the two detailed combat screenshots. One shows the VII Hungarian Corps HQ commanding 2 kampfgruppen of the 11 Panzer Division, and the other the XI Hungarian Corps commanding the Totenkopf Division, which would seem to be a significant combat 'divisor' to these important German formations.

aye, its still an AI and there seem to be 2 enduring problems that Gary can't fix (or at least easily). One is its choice of HQ chain and the other is the relative importance of river lines. Its doing better at in-hex terrain and identifying key hexes but seems to struggle on that one.

my logic is that I put it on 120 morale as that is what it needs to handle the offensive phase well. Less the direct unit morale modifier and more it brings in some behavioural traits that compensate and make the game far more fun (as an aside, unless you know what you're doing, don't put the Soviet AI > 110 if you start as the axis). It also now helps that good axis play in 1941 is less predicated on pockets and more on sustained pressure on key sectors.

Among the things that 120 gives it is to pass most leadership rolls automatically, the other big thing is it gets extra disruptions as the Axis in June-Oct 41 and then May-Nov 42 and if the Soviet from Dec 42 to the game end.

So I then push it up to 125 and sort of assume it'll waste that in ill designed OOB choices but it has some protection due to side-stepping most leadership rolls

edit: one difference to HtH is in terms of breakthroughs and response. If you play the Axis HtH in the Stalingrad-Berlin scenario (& this is more fun that it might sound), you tend to focus on controlling the breakthrough aspect but if your opponent pulls it off things can get very messy till you scramble to regain some control of the situation.

The AI will give you more chances for the breakthrough aspect but then re-acts better than a human player could, which is why I have this pattern of a devastating opening blow and exploitation, a couple of turns of making further gains and then tending to stop and re-organise. Partly this reflects the CPP/logistics system but also by about T3 the AI has rebuilt its defensive lines. So in the post above, 2 Blr is facing a wall of steel and I didn't really have a clue what to do next.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 2/21/2021 5:51:04 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to MAS)

Post #: 149

T144 - 2/24/2021 11:34:27 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

25 March 1944

This brings the game to T144. Since I am having to rely on recycling images from the full AAR, I'm going to keep to a quick turn by turn reporting model and then some form of overview.

T139

Finally saw the German positions in the Ukraine start to weaken. 4 Ukrainian managed to cross the Bug and an exhausted 3 Ukr made a few gains. Given this offers the chance to finally clear the central Ukraine I turned 1 Ukr east and risked some deep exploitations.

Just to restate, GS works in this game, the Sturmoviks disrupted a lot of combat elements (plus the Soviet artillery) leaving a well placed formation vulnerable.

The negative side of this, is I still have bad outcomes and even when it works I pick up a lot of losses. So still rotating air groups back to the National Reserve to train up new pilots.

T140

The AI responded robustly in the Ukraine. I lost Vinnitsa (again), had a cavalry corps trashed and my spearheads cut off. So I made the best of a bad job, put Odessa to one side and decided to finish off that salient that has been stalling me for weeks.

Finding Nikolaev so well defended was a shock as I need that for the advance to Odessa (plot spoiler � this is going to take some resolving).

There is not much going on north of the Pripyet. I'm making marginal gains around Lake Peipus and mostly letting the main fronts rest. Also my truck situation is still a bit marginal and I can't afford to sustain an offensive across the whole front.

T141

Still all about the Ukraine. The main pocket actually held so left it to weaker Armies to actually collapse and pulled the better formations together for a renewed drive on Odessa.

On the other hand, round #1 of the slaughter at Nikolaev. At least I knocked their fortifications down a lot.

T142

Early March, saw a shift in my approach. While the weather remains relatively settled at some stage the spring rains will hit and ideally I want to stop at a point where I have good supply (the enduring truck problem).

The limited action in the north starts to speed up. AGN is now in full retreat but there is a chance for a pocket around Pskov, 2 Blr is focussed on Lithuania in preparation for a summer offensive over the 1941 borders.

Nikolaev cost me another 9,000 losses over 2 attacks.

At least it should fall next turn. As an aside, I think the German player needs to use this trick. You clearly need to commit significant forces (4+ divisions) but that is creating a huge delay, certainly more than 4 such divisions in the field. As the Soviets move west, the few very large rail yards are critical to their supply network and this sort of defence is a real problem. Which indeed will be a feature of the battles in Germany.

T143

It took 3 more bloody assaults to clear Nikolaev. Its not just the time delay (or the losses). 4 Ukr is completely wrecked and will take 3-4 turns to refit.

I can take some optimism that Odessa is now on the situation map but if it is as well defended as Nikolaev that is another VP bonus lost.

German counter-attacks weakened 2 Blr but finally managed to threaten a pocket in eastern Lithuania.

T144

Improving my truck situation is a slow process. The extra 1944 LL is welcome but I have a deficit and to repair the situation in individual units often means moving them well back from the front line to pick up missing trucks. I probably have too large an on-map army but with all these long salients I need the formations just to provide flank protection.

In wider news, my glorious allies suggest that the Second Front will be a wee bit delayed, while Finland starts chatting about an exit strategy.

Given a combination of the wrecked 4 Ukr, the cost of destroying that last pocket and that I am badly placed (really didn't want to turn 1 Ukr east), not much I could do in the Ukraine. Both 1 and 3 Ukr sent mobile formations back to the rear to refit and rest.

Depending on the weather, there may be scope for a sustained offensive aimed at Odessa in April � certainly no point trying to make substantial gains now.

2 Blr gained its goal of reducing the Postavy pocket (E Lithuania) and some more gains along the Dauga. That leaves AGN reliant on two single track rails (from Riga) and whatever is landed at Talinin. Building up the Baltic fleet air arm to see if I can limit this as this is a situation where a naval air campaign is worth a serious commitment.

Which oddly makes Leningrad and 2 Baltic Fronts the centre of attention. Goal is to be well placed for the primary targets (Pskov and Talinin) for an early summer offensive.

I can't sustain any operations here, and lose quite often, but mostly hold onto my gains, so its a slow under-mining of the Axis position rather than anything dramatic.

And time to discuss where I think I am with the VP table.

In theory there are 440 city points and 156 bonus pts on the list (here I am discounting any Odessa bonus. So ever managing an auto-win, before April 1945 is unlikely but the points are there). I can't see anything like that occuring at any of the earlier set of checks.

I need 80 to match the HWM by Jan 45. Assume the northern trio (Pskov/Riga/Talinn) will generate 48 and given the current front those gains are secure. I should also take Lvov and Odessa by early summer (so up to 68).

Given where the front lines are, staying ahead of schedule in the north is feasible so maybe one or both of Koenigsberg and Warsaw by late summer? Either will give me a match vs HWM.

Beyond that, I come to some big choices. It is clear that the AI is strong in the Ukraine and I am really struggling to match the historical timescale. I can't see any reason for this to radically change so while I am sure I'll put Romania out of the war by late 1944 I could be late for the VP.

So I think the big choice is do I hunt an auto-win in April 1945 (feasible only if I maximise the Rumanian-Hungarian VP) or gamble on Berlin before the end of May 1945. If I go for that, and become entangled in the AI's defensive lines then a draw starts to emerge as the likely end point.

If this analysis is right then I need to decide by say September 44 if I am going for VP across the map or to gamble on Berlin before the cut off date?

So, the politics (VP gain) point south and the Balkans, a military victory suggests taking the direct route into Germany.

OOB. The really big numbers are not shifting, if anything the Germans have more tanks. At least I am finally starting to take on my 1944 models which really helps. It looks like the Germans have around 10 divisions in their reserve, I presume this is what they have lost in the winter battles refitting. They gain a final manpower boost in the summer of 1944, after that my expectation is what they lose stays lost as they lack the manpower to refit properly.

Losses, not a good turn for me. There were a lot of German counter-attacks on my more exposed formations, hence accepting a forced pause on operations. T34/85s now in action along with IS2s.

Ok, not many T34/85s yet, but am shedding the last KVs from my heavy tank formations.

As an over-view (I've removed the weather graphics to make it a bit more clear), the northern part of the front. AGN is retreating at its own pace, my only mobile assets north of the Dauga are cavalry but clearly there is now a direct threat to Riga from the northern parts of 2 Blr.

Central sector. As far as I can, I've weakened my front lines to allow me to refit and prepare. Ideally I want to use 2 Blr to take Koenigsberg and 1 Blr to drive SW towards Brest-Litovsk etc. But that is dependent on clearing out the German positions on 2 Blr's northern flank.

The Ukraine. Especially for 3 Ukr (the pink coloured formation), you can see how much I have pulled out of the line. Almost all its mobile formations are well back trying to capture trucks (also they shed less as they are then closer to my functioning depots). Vinnitsa is back under Soviet control (if I recall it changed hands 4 times).