Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Hi Bill,

Great patches much appreciated!! Going back to this discussion after looking at the new patch notes I realized somehow I had these stats wrong. Correction:

WW1: AP: 18 NA:3 ND:0 DP: 35
WIE: AP: 20 NA:5 ND:1 DP: 40
WAW: AP: 16 NA:5 ND:1 DP: 40

I see you decided to keep WW1 subs ND at 0 but increased the dive percentage from 25 to 35. Curious why no naval defense? Thanks!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Naval defense 0 lets all types of warships gang up on an isolated sub for free. Typically in this game you want to hit the sub with your non-damaging warships first (battleships, cruisers) and then finish with destroyers once the sub has been attacked down to a low supply value. This ensures that the destroyer attacks do high strength damage.

If the sub had defense of 1 or greater, battleships and armored cruisers would take damage for participating. But as of now there's no downside to using dreadnoughts to attack subs.

When a sub dives it teleports to a nearby hex and possibly takes damage (and I think it still loses a supply point). This can save the sub sometimes in edge cases, but it's less effective when the enemy has half their fleet focusing on one sub, because there are plenty of search vessels around. Even if a sub does survive due to diving one or more times during a single turn, it's often going to be destroyed during the next turn because it has low supply/movement points left and enemy warships stand between the sub and escape.

I haven't played the WWII games so I'm not sure how subs are successful in those games.

We can test out to see if higher dive percentage does anything, but in my opinion it probably won't change much.

I was trying to come up with a way to improve the situation and one thing I did was give subs 1 defense and destroyers +1 sub attack. (Could possibly give only upgraded subs this defense bonus). This isn't a perfect fix at all, but it at least makes it costly for dreadnoughts to participate in the feeding frenzy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Hi Bill,

Great patches much appreciated!! Going back to this discussion after looking at the new patch notes I realized somehow I had these stats wrong. Correction:

WW1: AP: 18 NA:3 ND:0 DP: 35
WIE: AP: 20 NA:5 ND:1 DP: 40
WAW: AP: 16 NA:5 ND:1 DP: 40

I see you decided to keep WW1 subs ND at 0 but increased the dive percentage from 25 to 35. Curious why no naval defense? Thanks!

I noticed that some of the other values, e.g. for Destroyers (IIRC) weren't the same either in the WW2 games, but the biggest difference seemed to be the dive percentage which had been drastically lower in WWI.

I'm hoping that this will make the passage into the Atlantic that much easier, and also increase their resilience to attack, which seemed to be the major issues?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Naval defense 0 lets all types of warships gang up on an isolated sub for free. Typically in this game you want to hit the sub with your non-damaging warships first (battleships, cruisers) and then finish with destroyers once the sub has been attacked down to a low supply value. This ensures that the destroyer attacks do high strength damage.

If the sub had defense of 1 or greater, battleships and armored cruisers would take damage for participating. But as of now there's no downside to using dreadnoughts to attack subs.

When a sub dives it teleports to a nearby hex and possibly takes damage (and I think it still loses a supply point). This can save the sub sometimes in edge cases, but it's less effective when the enemy has half their fleet focusing on one sub, because there are plenty of search vessels around. Even if a sub does survive due to diving one or more times during a single turn, it's often going to be destroyed during the next turn because it has low supply/movement points left and enemy warships stand between the sub and escape.

I haven't played the WWII games so I'm not sure how subs are successful in those games.

We can test out to see if higher dive percentage does anything, but in my opinion it probably won't change much.

I was trying to come up with a way to improve the situation and one thing I did was give subs 1 defense and destroyers +1 sub attack. (Could possibly give only upgraded subs this defense bonus). This isn't a perfect fix at all, but it at least makes it costly for dreadnoughts to participate in the feeding frenzy.