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msg for the SP:WaW team - 8/19/2003 9:49:08 PM

PzV im Einsatz!

Posts: 20
Joined: 8/11/2003
Status: offline

Hi

Gavris Narcis and I want to start a better romanian oob but now we are wondering if it's worth it, in the sense that we are not sure if it will be included in the next versions of SP:WaW (obviously not 8.1, but perhaps after!) :confused:

Post #: 1

- 8/20/2003 4:11:35 AM

Frank W.

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline

no "after" !

this will be the final version.

but perhaps you can help with
the new games ?

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Post #: 2

- 8/20/2003 7:25:22 AM

PzV im Einsatz!

Posts: 20
Joined: 8/11/2003
Status: offline

quote:

no "after" !

this will be the final version.

You know, our fellow member Gavris Narcis has been here on these boards since SP:WaW was a new game (one year before you registered). He pointed out numerous errors in the Romanian OOB and none were taken care of during all this time!

Check this thread for example: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15227

He wrote that [B]2 years ago yet those errors are still present in 7.1! What is the OOB section of this forum for anyway if the team ignores errors pointed out by the forum members?? I don't even need books about the Romanian Army during WWII in order to make a correct OOB, the information is just a few clicks away
--WARNING: these sites are not suitable for illiterates!!--
http://www.armata.home.ro
http://www.wwii.home.ro
http://www.arr.go.ro
(and there are others...)

The only "reason" I see why the romanian oob has been left in the shadows is because that country is a ****-hole at the end of the western world, am I right? If the staff can't make a decent oob for a nation then it's better to leave that country out of the game completely, even if it played a big part.

quote:

but perhaps you can help with
the new games ?

Leo (Gavris Narcis) and me have been considering buying Combat Leader but seeing how user input is awfully disregarded (especially if you're romanian :D ), I don't think there's any reason why we should buy the game only to get back at the same frustrations we had playing SP:WaW years ago and now - 7.1!

Take a look at Finland, an accurate and probably one of the most detailed OOBs, "supersoldiers" peaking 92 in exp. and morale, etc. On the other hand we have Romania with its mountain hunters who seem to have never shot a rifle in during their whole training and an OOB as detailed as China's and containing lots of inaccuracies.

I apologize for putting this so bluntly, but I've obviously wasted countless hours for nothing. Oops.

Good bye!

(in reply to PzV im Einsatz!)

Post #: 3

Regretful - 8/20/2003 8:25:59 AM

Orzel Bialy

Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline

PzV im Einsatz! & Gavris Narcis,

Hmmmm....interesting approach (mention of boycotting future purchases) to an issue (lack of historical OoB's for Romania) I must admit. ;)

First of all...even when bluntness seems the only option left to raise attention to a cause, a hint of diplomacy never hurts. :D Slamming the door with a "Good Bye!" can have a dramatic effect, but it can also backfire from time to time...just a friendly public message reminder. lol :)

Now, I'm not promising any rose gardens here...but if you sent me a partial list of some of your changes I could see if I can get a peek at the new OoB's and tell you whether you will be happy or not. ;) Keep in mind that I will not be able to state specifics but let's see if I can at least tell you that changes were or were not made before we storm out in protest...OK?

A lot of my fellow Raiders and other SPWAW fanatics (lol) have worked very hard on the newest version of OoB's...taking a lot of forum input into account I may add...although some things probably were "lost in the haystack" over time, but not intentionally over-looked I assure you.

In the end the real issue at hand was that there was more work than people available to assign it all to. So perhaps not everything received the attention that everyone would have liked...which is indeed unfortunate...but the attempt was made at least.

I also would like to say, don't forget that a lot of this work was being done by people in their spare time...after working at full time jobs and spending time with family and other acts of everyday life.

As for Matrixgames...I know at times it is easy to say Matrix let something "slide" because of the decision not to invest a whole lot of time and effort into SPWAW anymore...but in a business sense one can not blame them. I mean outside of the MC's, let's remember that it was a free game after all. ;)

ANYWAYS (AGAIN!!! LMAO) :D :p ;) I just wanted to reply to your message and offer to see if some of your issues may have been handled by the new OoB's. You never know unless you try...right? :)

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Post #: 4

- 8/20/2003 9:54:46 AM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

Yes, Gavris has been around since the 'early days', but he often had trouble getting his point across. Here's an example: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6376

Please keep in mind that others may have a different opinion of what an OOB should contain. Also, 'fixing' one OOB can cause imbalances which would require adjusting some others...its not always an easy matter.

_____________________________

Jim NSB

(in reply to PzV im Einsatz!)

Post #: 5

- 8/20/2003 12:15:33 PM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

OK, the link works now :p

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Jim NSB

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Post #: 6

- 8/20/2003 12:18:48 PM

Voriax

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Hmm...it looks like the new 8.0 romanian oob is pretty much the same as 7.1
Some half a dozen new infantry units, some weapon changes, some 'across the board' changes to ammo loadouts and perhaps a dozen or so new formations.

So I guess you won't be happy with the result.

Voriax

_____________________________

Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!

(in reply to PzV im Einsatz!)

Post #: 7

- 8/20/2003 1:30:25 PM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline

I would too like to see an improvement in the Romanian OOB. My main issue is experience - even Munte units are green. :rolleyes:

I don't expect a Romanian OOB that can stand a fight against the Red Army on its own, but they should indeed be able to do at least something....

This goes for the Italian and French infantry as well, btw.

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Got StuG?

(in reply to PzV im Einsatz!)

Post #: 8

Don't Get Me Wrong Guys... - 8/20/2003 9:22:02 PM

Orzel Bialy

Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline

I too think that they (France / Italy / Both Allied and Axis Allies) could stand some revisions.

The question is time and manpower. I think as long as people can site, lets say, two or more viable sources for an OoB issue, then I think there would be ample ground for taking a hard look at the matter.

As for "3rd Party" revisions....Matrix might not make the revised OoB in question "official" but the community would definitely welcome the offerings. ;)

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Post #: 9

- 8/20/2003 9:29:47 PM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline

Then again, I suppose it's harder with the French/Italian/Romanian etc. OOB's to be historically 'correct' without forcing C&C ON....that's the weak spot with those armies. :rolleyes:

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Got StuG?

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Post #: 10

- 8/20/2003 10:42:12 PM

Grenadier

Posts: 981
Joined: 5/10/2000
From: Newport Beach, CA USA
Status: offline

Your concerns have been forwarded to the Combat Leader TOE development team. You can write the coordinator directlly at [email]sethg@matrixgames.com[/email] if you wan to volunteer to help with the Rumanian TOE's.

As for SPWaW 8.0, write to Bryan Melvyn. he basically has done the OOB overhaul by himself with little fanfare or help. [email]Shmelbr@aol.com[/email]

I echo your concerns. I took great pains to modify the Rumanian units in Lost Victories to give better performances in the Crimean branch

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Brent Grenadier Richards

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Post #: 11

Right you are Bel... - 8/20/2003 10:47:27 PM

Orzel Bialy

Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline

in some aspects of the game certain values were adjusted I believe for better playbility...and not always because no one looked into the matter.

For people who don't want C&C on...then lower exp / mor pts can act as a balance to the better movement and command features that player is receiving...as compared to what they would have to deal with if C&C on.

There is give and take everywhere. :D

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(in reply to PzV im Einsatz!)

Post #: 12