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RE: Disaster in the North

 
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RE: Disaster in the North - 2/25/2021 9:17:57 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		So 12 Divs in North now plus NKVD Div and a Cav Div on LOC Duty will now need to move up in support as 2 of the Divs I susepct will be wrecked

7 Reinforcing Divs in 7 months
2 Destroyed Divs respawning
4 Rifle Bdes converting to Divs
3 Disbanded Inf Divs of 25th Army re forming in the North

So 26 Divs total 4 to be rebuilt now and 3 to be rebuilt in 5 - 6 months even divided to get to 80% TOE the rebuilt Divs will take 2 months and be v low exp when rebuilt until they get some combat action

So probably use them to hold the road and pull back experieced Divs to refit for my offensive

Its going to take a while !!!


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 91
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/26/2021 7:31:10 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		4,000 Soviet Rifle Squads in the pool and enough devices to rebuild 20 Divs !!! (was 3,000 but I disbanded 3 Divs to the pool !!) with 600 a month being added I would love a few more shell Divs to rebuild would trade half the surplus for some Yaks or Kingcobras to help my AF !!!

I missed a trick rather than disbanding I should have suicided 3 or 4 Divs from the South deliberately got them cut off and wiped out then I dont need to wait 6 months to rebuild...would have had them back in a month but its a bit too gamey to deliberately destroy part of your own army - it would be so easy to launch a spoiling attack and allow myself to get 'destroyed' taking some of the japanese down with me

But no I decide to do the proper thing and wait 6 months I hope i can hold long enough.......


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 92
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/26/2021 7:39:00 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		4 games going and no turn......boring

Reading an old book I used during the original build fascinating reading






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 93
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/26/2021 8:07:49 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		He hit karachi hard today high level sweeps with zeros v a layered CAP and wiped the floor with me

Good news looks like I may just avoid getting retreated again if my Divs can race away fast enough

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 94
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/26/2021 8:09:43 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I really hate having to go to stupid altitudes how much combat really happened at 30,000 feet in the pacific but thats what you have to do extremely annoying

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 95
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/27/2021 7:38:54 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		I think the benefit to disbanding rather than being wiped out is that the unit comes back with a higher experience level than a unit bought back from the grave.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 96
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/27/2021 10:31:31 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Its a wash after you fill a unit with 1,000 Devices of all kinds its exp is in the tank anyway whatever happens it either needs to go into the front line and be part of some bombardement combat in a static supported front or sit a prep to 100 in a rear area

In either case its a couple of months to fill up the div even if you split it into 1/3s and the same time to get it up to national xp level

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 97
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/27/2021 10:39:52 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Hindsight being what it is I should probably not have disbanded anything and as soon as I realised his commitment to the north I should have attacked to divert him and make him sent troops south - had i done that maybe i hold ulan Bator

But I disbanded a lot of mobile units early and moved others north before the rail net closed so I committed to a turtle strategy in the south too early - basically I had a plan and I implemented it to hell with what the japanese did - that was a strategic mistake

Dont get me wrong he has had months to prepare for this so fort levels will be high his airforce is ferocious and mine has been terrible so it might not have worked and may have cost me the south BUT I didnt even leave myself the option and that was a strategic mistake

I over focussed on making the North the main theatre and waiting for the upgraded squads by doing so I made his strategic calculation exceptionally easy and thats never a good thing.

Personally I still dont think an attack from the south with say an extra 1500 AV would have made a difference given what I expect to be defence in depth and high forts backed by air - but we will never know because by my decisions I removed even the option of doing it and thus I suspect released forces to crush me in the North

In essence whats happening in the North is my own fault - it may have been inevitable given the correlation of forces - but my decisons certainly didnt help prevent it

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 98
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/27/2021 3:37:27 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Another side effect from disbanding vice losing them in combat is the experience your opponent gains by destroying your units in combat. Of course he doesn't lose anything when you disband so for each decision there are unforeseen consequences.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 99
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 3:12:12 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Another side effect from disbanding vice losing them in combat is the experience your opponent gains by destroying your units in combat. Of course he doesn't lose anything when you disband so for each decision there are unforeseen consequences.

Are you saying the enemy troops get an experience boost with every unit withdrawn or disbanded? Have you tracked that?

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 100
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 3:43:33 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		The opponent loses on the VPs when the unit is disbanded but not destroyed. The enemy loses on any experience gained by not destroying the units. Those are the opportunity costs to the enemy of having weaker defenses to attack that is offset by a weaker offensive capability of the enemy to defend against.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 101
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 3:53:36 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Huh ???

He only loses VP's if he destroys my army and he wont do that

I have 800k supply and 7,000 AV behind lvl 6 forts in bad terrain and if he looks to get through that I have lvl 9 forts in my fall back base.


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 102
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 4:42:12 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		If you disband the unit, the enemy does not get VPs. If the enemy destroys the unit, the enemy does get VPs. In both cases, the unit can come back.

When you disband a unit that has not been attacked, the enemy loses out on the VPs and the experience gained by his units. In this case, the defense can be weakened at no actual cost to the enemy. There is no supply cost to the enemy and his units are still as functional as they were before.

When the enemy destroys the unit, the enemy gets the VPs from the destroyed devices and his units gain experience but the enemy may also lose devices plus the enemy also use supplies which may be precious. Then his nits have to heal which will also cost supplies and may not be able to function in an offensive manner for awhile.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 103
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 5:38:31 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Huh ???

He only loses VP's if he destroys my army and he wont do that

I have 800k supply and 7,000 AV behind lvl 6 forts in bad terrain and if he looks to get through that I have lvl 9 forts in my fall back base.

It was done before in PBEM, it can be done again. 800k supply is still a manageable number, and you don't (or soon will not) have supply generation in place. A year of bombing and bombardments will whittle it down. Even with big Vlad CD guns (no replacements for those btw) BB bombardments will go through unscathed most of the time and man those can be damaging to supply. For both sides :)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 104
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 6:39:20 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Unlikely in a scen 1 game would cost him too much but if I am wrong I am wrong I am very confident on holding the southern pocket - albeit I am not sure what it actually gets me

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 105
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 6:44:41 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Things I dont like about the Soviet ORBAT/Situation having never really played it through before

1. No Fighter replacements at all is just wrong - should be at least a drip of replacements even if biplanes made surplus elsewhere especially when you get to 43
2. Should have put an activation convoy similar to the death lines for other factions
3. Its wrong that other allied aircraft are interned after activation - RAF units operated at Murmansk and USAAF aircraft ocasionally landed in Soviet bases severely limits felxibility per 1 above
4. No movement or redeployment at all pre activation is just stupid.
5. On the other hand land replacements and arty replacements are just crazy high.

You can clearly see it was never intended that the Soviets get activated until 45

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 106
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 6:45:34 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Anyway we play it as we find it

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 107
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 6:49:54 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Trans Baikal Front is now digging in for all they are worth in bad terrain I have about 6k AV with about another 1k forming in the rear every day that passes more of the army has dug in and awaits the test to come

AA is concentrated to support and keep his air force away

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 108
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 9:10:30 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Things I dont like about the Soviet ORBAT/Situation having never really played it through before

1. No Fighter replacements at all is just wrong - should be at least a drip of replacements even if biplanes made surplus elsewhere especially when you get to 43
2. Should have put an activation convoy similar to the death lines for other factions
3. Its wrong that other allied aircraft are interned after activation - RAF units operated at Murmansk and USAAF aircraft ocasionally landed in Soviet bases severely limits felxibility per 1 above
4. No movement or redeployment at all pre activation is just stupid.
5. On the other hand land replacements and arty replacements are just crazy high.

You can clearly see it was never intended that the Soviets get activated until 45


Well, now you know somethings to add during the next scenario update/.

But another thing for the scenario update, if one should be done, would be to add "dumps" of BT-7s and T-26 into the pools as those were phased out in Europe.

One thing to add for the Japanese might be "White" Russian units if that is possible. Especially depending upon how far they go, considering where the gulags might be.

Is it possible to move units from Alma Alta to China? If so, that could open another front and threaten Chungking . . .
It could also allow Allied air units to support the Soviet ground forces . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 109
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 9:52:43 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Things I dont like about the Soviet ORBAT/Situation having never really played it through before

1. No Fighter replacements at all is just wrong - should be at least a drip of replacements even if biplanes made surplus elsewhere especially when you get to 43
2. Should have put an activation convoy similar to the death lines for other factions
3. Its wrong that other allied aircraft are interned after activation - RAF units operated at Murmansk and USAAF aircraft ocasionally landed in Soviet bases severely limits felxibility per 1 above
4. No movement or redeployment at all pre activation is just stupid.
5. On the other hand land replacements and arty replacements are just crazy high.

You can clearly see it was never intended that the Soviets get activated until 45


Well, now you know somethings to add during the next scenario update/.

But another thing for the scenario update, if one should be done, would be to add "dumps" of BT-7s and T-26 into the pools as those were phased out in Europe.

One thing to add for the Japanese might be "White" Russian units if that is possible. Especially depending upon how far they go, considering where the gulags might be.

Is it possible to move units from Alma Alta to China? If so, that could open another front and threaten Chungking . . .
It could also allow Allied air units to support the Soviet ground forces . . .


A scen update cannot really fix the above

I could leave a trickle of obsolete air replacements easily enough and reduce soviet device replacements etc etc

The others are unfortunately in the code and Michael after his sterling efforts is now long retired from AE exe updates

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 110
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 9:56:04 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I would really like to pull back most of Tran Baikal's arty force I dont think it will add much to the coming fight as the terrain is rough and will be a supply hog - I will leave it in place for a few months and see what happens

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 111
RE: Disaster in the North - 2/28/2021 10:15:50 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I thought that you could add units like those "CD" units which dump a bunch of devices into the pools.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 112
RE: Disaster in the North - 3/1/2021 3:09:10 AM   
29000Kevin

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 9/26/2020
Status: offline 		The official theme of this AAR meanwhile.

https://youtu.be/2z5rMNH_yTI



I also may or may not have attempted to write an incredibly long comment but then accidentally deleted it without saving it...

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 113
RE: Disaster in the North - 3/1/2021 3:55:04 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I thought that you could add units like those "CD" units which dump a bunch of devices into the pools.


Yeah you can but there is no soviet trigger point ie no line of death

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 114
RE: Disaster in the North - 3/1/2021 5:18:35 PM   
29000Kevin

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 9/26/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I thought that you could add units like those "CD" units which dump a bunch of devices into the pools.


Yeah you can but there is no soviet trigger point ie no line of death


It sucks for the Soviet Air that the Line of Death doesn't exist but oh well but really a situation where the Japanese control all of China, Most of India, Northern Australia, the entire SRA, Philippines, Marshall + Gilbert + Mariana Islands, the Fiji Islands + Pago + New Caledonia, the Aleutian islands, Western Alaska and Bloody Siberia all at the same bloody time is unprecedented for a SENARIO 1 Japan to ever accomplish in one PBEM.

This game is one of those very rare exceptional cases where their is a clear lacking in the Map that needs to be addressed.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 115
RE: Disaster in the North - 3/1/2021 5:52:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Dont worry they wont hold all of that for much longer 45 - 60 days and I will be ready for Operation Hydra a massive multi Corps offensive to crush the Japanese invaders in India 6 Full Corps one fully armoured backed by massive LBA in open terrain......

(in reply to 29000Kevin)
Post #: 116
RE: Disaster in the North - 3/1/2021 9:16:23 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Sent a PM Andy.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 117
RE: Disaster in the North - 3/2/2021 8:13:08 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		To BBFanboy: My point is the opposite, the opponent gets no VPs when he withdraws units because he cannot destroy and gains no experience for his units because they can't attack them and destroy them.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 118
RE: Disaster in the North - 3/3/2021 5:54:10 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

To BBFanboy: My point is the opposite, the opponent gets no VPs when he withdraws units because he cannot destroy and gains no experience for his units because they can't attack them and destroy them.

OK, good - that's the way I thought it would work but I wasn't sure that's what your previous post was saying. All good now - thanks for confirming.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 119
RE: Disaster in the North - 3/3/2021 2:49:58 PM   
29000Kevin

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 9/26/2020
Status: offline 		I want to ask these questions, its a grim one but what is the state of the Soviet Navy and Merchant Marine...?

Is their any hope of escape for it? Especially for when the Cruiser Reinforcement's arrive, when does the Soviet Navy even gets the rest of its Navy, 1945 or earlier?

Is it even possible to rebase the endangered Soviet Submarines, which I barely ever see the Silhouettes of in this game.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 120
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