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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Grumman F3F

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Grumman F3F - 3/4/2021 6:19:55 PM

Desertmole

Posts: 144
Joined: 10/3/2004
Status: offline

I saw that artwork is available for the Grumman F3F. Does anyone have the aircraft Data? I cannot find it in any of the scenarios I have downloaded.

Post #: 1

RE: Grumman F3F - 3/4/2021 9:06:35 PM

fcooke

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline

Out of frontline service by the end of 41 - never saw action. I doubt it is in the game in any scenario. If you're doing a mod you will likely have to come up with your own stats/data unless someone else has already modelled it. Speed, range and armament will be easy enough to come up with, durability and mvr less so, though as a biplane I would say it should be pretty high. As for durability, it is a Grumman so I would say quite high as well.

(in reply to Desertmole)

Post #: 2

RE: Grumman F3F - 3/5/2021 7:20:02 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

You could try the Between The Storms mod that models 1920s-1930s equipment. Check the mods section. Else, try the War Plan Orange forum.

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(in reply to fcooke)

Post #: 3

RE: Grumman F3F - 3/5/2021 11:55:22 AM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

Or look at the RHS scenario. Sid has a lot of art and data in that mod. Other than that, as BB said look at the War Plan Orange forum. I have the game but I can't find it at the moment 😕....GP

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(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 4

RE: Grumman F3F - 3/7/2021 7:49:08 AM

Hrafnagud

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/9/2018
Status: offline

Based on sustained turn rates, climb rates and diving speed, my personal mod has the F3F as follows in terms of maneuver bands:

35/25/17/8/0

Max effective ceiling (500 ft/min climb rate) around 26,500 feet.

Durability 20.

(in reply to Desertmole)

Post #: 5

RE: Grumman F3F - 3/7/2021 10:54:34 AM

Hrafnagud

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/9/2018
Status: offline

OK back at my PC - full set of stats I have for F3F for WITP-AE:

Name: F3F-3
Type: 0 (fighter)
MaxAltitude: 26400
MaxSpeed: 261
CruiseSpeed: 150
ClimbRate: 2250 (note - in my personal mod this is average rate of climb from 0-10,000 ft in feet per minute)
Maneuver: 35
Endurance: 390
Armour: 0
Durability: 20
MaxLoad: 200
ServiceRating: 1
Attribute: 8
Nationality: 4
Crew: 1
NormRange: 510
ExtRange: 650
MaxRange: 850
WpnDevID1: 161 (.50 Browning MG)
WpnNumber1: 1
WpnFacing1: 8 (centreline)
WpnDevID2: 150 (.303 Browning MG)
WpnNumber2: 1
WpnFacing1: 8 (centreline)
WpnDevID3: 201 (100lb GP Bomb)
WpnNumber3: 2
WpnFacing3: 12 (external)
mvrAlt: 35
mvrAlt2: 23
mvrAlt3: 17
mvrAlt4: 8
mvrAlt5: 0

(in reply to Desertmole)

Post #: 6

RE: Grumman F3F - 3/8/2021 12:20:05 AM

CaptBeefheart

Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

Hrafnagud: That durability number seems a bit low for a Grumman biplane. What were your thoughts behind it?

Cheers,
CB

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(in reply to Hrafnagud)

Post #: 7

RE: Grumman F3F - 3/8/2021 4:58:41 AM

Hrafnagud

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/9/2018
Status: offline

I calculate durability as a function of armour, self-sealing tanks, empty weight, gross weight, density, number of engines, and overall wing size.

In the case of the F3F, as far as I am aware, it had neither armour (for game purposes) nor self-sealing tanks. If I am incorrect and the aircraft had both these features, the durability increases to 24.

The factors influence the F3F's calculated durability (relative to the durability of all other aircraft in the game!) as follows:

1. It's quite a small aircraft - only 3,276 lbs empty. Vulnerable portions of the aircraft (engine, pilot, tail assembly) are proportionally quite large parts of the aircraft footprint.
2. For take-off, it added around 1,250 lbs of weight - of which around 850 lbs alone was flammable aviation fuel, and the rest also deemed mostly vulnerable/flammable (pilot, ammunition, oil). So a large proportion (over a quarter) of the combat-ready craft's gross weight is vulnerable/flammable. That counts against its overall durability. (Out of interest, using the same methodology for the F4F-7 - the flying gas tank - yields a durability of 19 for that aircraft).
3. It's a mostly metal construction, which helps, but overall it's not built to the same density as later designs.
4. Single engine - one critical hit on the engine and it goes down - but that is the same for all single-engine fighters. Multi-engine aircraft get a slight boost to durability in my mod.
5. It has quite large wing area (being a biplane) relative to its size, which helps durability.

Again, you have to compare this relative to all other aircraft. The Swordfish II is rated at 20, the Vildebeest III at 21 in stock - and these are larger aircraft (larger structure to soak up more hits).

Ultimately, the F3F-3 is similar to the A6M2 or the Ki-43 - if you score decent hits on the fuselage, you have a very high chance of scoring a critical hit (engine, fuel tank, pilot etc.) - but the problem is managing to get those hits in (it is a very agile aircraft below 10,000 feet).

TL,DR: Very small aircraft, no armour and no self-sealing tanks.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)

Post #: 8