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Formation Proficiency, some questions

 
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Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 4:46:31 PM   
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TheJSFFenix
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Posts: 19
Joined: 3/7/2021
Status: offline 		Hello!

I've just joined to ask about this thing, so forgive my rather unappealing profile.

I got TOAW on one of the steam sales, as I recently discovered my love for hex&counter wargames. After playing through some scenarios I thought I'll try my hand at designing one.

Most of the mechanics of the game I managed to figure out thus far by reading the manual and just playing, but I still don't really understand how Formation Proficiencies work. I know that unit proficiencies influence their strenghts in combat and influence unit quality for making checks, but formation proficiencies? No idea.

The manual tells me that Formation Proficency % influences the Formation Quality, and that quality is used for making checks to see if the units in this formation will manage to reorganize or if they will be available for orders in a given turn.

I've also looked at scenarios by Bob Cross, because he usually goes into great detail in his briefings with explaining how stuff works (I wouldn't know that supply units cancel eachother out if they're within the same radius, for example) and in several of his scenarios I found some references:

Waterloo 1815:

quote:


Note that Allied formation proficiencies are equal to the average of their respecitve unit proficiencies. But French formation proficiencies are 20% higher than their average unit proficiencies. French formations will therefore be less likely to reorganize.


Cambrai 1917:

quote:


The British were unveiling a revolutionary artillery fire control system at Cambrai and this has been reflected in this force factor (Force Communication). The French did not benefit from this so their artillery units have had their proficiencies reduced to 84% of their formation proficiencies, to reflect this.


France 1944 D-Day/Cobra:

quote:


Note that UK land units have formation proficiencies that are only 75% (US are 110%) of their unit proficiencies. They will be more likely to reorganize if subjected to heavy combat.


So the wording is sometimes super confusing to me and in the end I don't get it at all what does it all mean. Can someone please explain to me what do Formation Proficiencies determine and how does it work with unit reorganization? What does it mean and what does it translate to in terms of gameplay when unit's proficiencies are below, equal, or higher than the ones of their formation?
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RE: Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 5:09:43 PM   
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golden delicious
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Posts: 5575
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Status: offline 		As far as I'm aware, the only impact of Formation Proficiency is that it's subject to a check if the formation takes heavy losses on a particular turn. The higher the proficiency, the greater the chance of passing. If the check is failed, the formation goes into reorganisation for the turn: units cannot move or attack, but can be given other orders, such as digging in, adopting a reserve deployment, disbanding or destroying a bridge. Air units cannot be given new orders but will execute their existing ones.

Note that this is quite different from the "Reorganising" status which an individual unit can receive, which prevents any orders being given at all. Finally, it's also worth noting that the other cause of formation reorganisation is a force shock level below the default of 100%; among other things, shock is the % chance that each formation will not go into reorganisation. As such, a 90% shock rating will mean each formation has a 10% chance of being in reorganisation each turn.

_____________________________

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"War Studies"
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RE: Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 5:10:10 PM   
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golden delicious
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheJSFFenix

After playing through some scenarios I thought I'll try my hand at designing one.



This is what we like to hear.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to TheJSFFenix)
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RE: Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 5:16:23 PM   
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cathar1244
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quote:

The manual tells me that Formation Proficency % influences the Formation Quality, and that quality is used for making checks to see if the units in this formation will manage to reorganize or if they will be available for orders in a given turn.


From one resource:

quote:

Formation quality check. Checked at the beginning of the turn. If failed, the formation will reorganize. Formation quality (is) the formation proficiency and average assigned unit quality. Reduces if many units are divided.


The same resource defines unit quality as ((2 x proficiency) + readiness) / 3

Cheers

(in reply to TheJSFFenix)
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RE: Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 5:26:40 PM   
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TheJSFFenix
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Posts: 19
Joined: 3/7/2021
Status: offline 		Yes, I am aware of the shock effect, it's heavily visible in the Korea 50-51 scenario.

So if a formation takes a heavy beating or sustains heavy casualties on the offensive during one turn, the following turn it has to make a quality check to see if they get paralyzed by that or not, and the more proficient the formation is, the higher chance they have of picking themselves up, right?

Are there any gameplay effects if, say, formation has a 70% proficiency but all its units have 90%? Or the other way around, low proficiency units vs high proficiency formation?

Like I quoted from the briefings of those Bob Cross scenarios, the relative value of unit proficiencies to formation proficiency does seem to matter for something.

< Message edited by TheJSFFenix -- 3/7/2021 5:31:29 PM >

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RE: Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 9:07:05 PM   
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Curtis Lemay
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheJSFFenix

Like I quoted from the briefings of those Bob Cross scenarios, the relative value of unit proficiencies to formation proficiency does seem to matter for something.


There is no such relationship. That was just the best way to make what I was doing clear to players.

The British units had high Unit Proficiencies - reflecting the high experience and commitment of their soldiers. But their formations had relatively lower Formation Proficiencies - reflecting the low loss tolerance of their political leaders after years of warfare (in two WWs) impacting the war weariness of their population.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

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RE: Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 10:15:07 PM   
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TheJSFFenix
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Posts: 19
Joined: 3/7/2021
Status: offline 		Once again thanks for explaining everything so thoroughly in your scenario briefings. I picked up a lot of lessons in designing the scenarios from you!

So the less proficient a formation is, the more likely it is to get thrown into reorganization and that's it? But does it apply only to reorganization following heavy combat or can it occur every turn even if unit didn't fight at all? I did see in your France 1944 AAR that you often listed some formations as being in reorganization at the beginning of each turn, so that's why I'm wondering.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 7
RE: Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 10:26:43 PM   
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Curtis Lemay
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Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheJSFFenix

Once again thanks for explaining everything so thoroughly in your scenario briefings. I picked up a lot of lessons in designing the scenarios from you!

So the less proficient a formation is, the more likely it is to get thrown into reorganization and that's it? But does it apply only to reorganization following heavy combat or can it occur every turn even if unit didn't fight at all? I did see in your France 1944 AAR that you often listed some formations as being in reorganization at the beginning of each turn, so that's why I'm wondering.

It's from heavy combat only.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to TheJSFFenix)
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RE: Formation Proficiency, some questions - 3/7/2021 11:01:21 PM   
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TheJSFFenix
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Posts: 19
Joined: 3/7/2021
Status: offline 		Okay, thanks!

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 9
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