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Major players need to be further away from each other

 
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Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/7/2021 3:49:29 AM   
scottrossi

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/4/2020
Status: offline 		I don't feel like this is a bug, as it's been in the game since launch, but it seems to be getting more pronounced as the game advances. I don't know whether it's a suggestion or just something to discuss so I'm putting it here.

Major players are far too close together. Most games, I'll see 4 or 5 clumped together and then the remainder given a good spread, sometimes too much of a spread.

Since this latest patch, especially on the new Hydra class worlds, it's even worse. In the most recent game I rolled, I was in the middle of a clump of five majors, the closest major city was four hexes away from me. Then about 40 hexes of non-aligned territory away, the remaining majors were all clumped together with the exception of one lonely major all the way up on the north pole, alone with no neighbors. In the previous game, which I quit as soon as I started it, there was a major city one hex away, and another was three or four! I've seen some minors like that, but that's just frustrating.

While I wouldn't mind one, maybe two major neighbors, at a reasonable distance, it sort of ruins the fun of the game when you're immediately boxed in and miss out on all the exploring and dealing with minors. I don't want to play with Nemesis, because I like there being a whole bunch of major nations to deal with as well. I don't know what the ideal distance should be for majors, but I definitely want to see the clumps broken up. I feel like there should not be more than 3 majors in proximity to each other, and definitely obeying the rules of city placement (5 hexes IIRC?).

I am hoping that Vic has this on his to do list already, as part of a world creation overhaul or something, but I still didn't want it to go unremarked. This game is incredible and I've been playing it a ridiculous amount since last June. This isn't something that's going to kill the game for me, but it definitely makes me quit and reroll way too much.
Post #: 1
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/7/2021 3:01:00 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		I agree 100%. At least this should be an option in the History set-up to have Majors spread across the planet instead of in clusters.

(in reply to scottrossi)
Post #: 2
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/7/2021 3:16:04 PM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		Ah, yeah, this game comes to mind :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWiB-35dtZU
First Major City : 3 tiles away !!!
First Minor City : 7 tiles away (5 tiles from the major)
Second Minor City : 8 tiles away (7 tiles from the major)
However he *did* enable the "Survival Stress" option...

The "worst" that I've seen myself was (without "Survival Stress", in 1.07.05) this minor city, only 2 tiles away from mine !!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to scottrossi)
Post #: 3
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/7/2021 3:16:52 PM   
redrum68

 

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline 		+1 especially on higher difficulty levels it seem major regimes often spawn very close to you with large portions of the map without any

(in reply to DasTactic)
Post #: 4
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/7/2021 4:15:02 PM   
Mercutio

 

Posts: 256
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline 		I agree as well

(in reply to redrum68)
Post #: 5
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/7/2021 7:33:36 PM   
Arralen


Posts: 827
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline 		.
We NEED equidistant spawns as a History Class

(in reply to Mercutio)
Post #: 6
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/8/2021 4:25:50 AM   
scottrossi

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/4/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arralen

.
We NEED equidistant spawns as a History Class



oh i missed this! i don't do MP but good gods i can imagine how much worse it would be.

(in reply to Arralen)
Post #: 7
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/8/2021 7:50:11 AM   
Tchey


Posts: 82
Joined: 6/17/2020
Status: offline 		Options needed indeed.

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(in reply to scottrossi)
Post #: 8
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/10/2021 9:54:11 AM   
Jorgas

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 1/30/2013
Status: offline 		This have been brought up several times on the forums, sadly people seem to be more interested in having super easy early city caps from the AI in the start of the game, which gives the human player a huge advantage and a insane kickstart so the rest of the AI's wont ever catch up not even the extreme dif/nemesis one, then giving them time to expand and be a threat at all. In my latest game I had 3 cities by turn 17, 4 by turn 27, and I could without any population issues found 3 more cities for a total of 7 by turn 50-55ish my nemesis had 2 and were slowly working on conquering their third, and then I accidentally "won" the game on largest map lol.

< Message edited by Jorgas -- 3/10/2021 9:55:02 AM >

(in reply to Tchey)
Post #: 9
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/10/2021 10:50:07 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgas

This have been brought up several times on the forums, sadly people seem to be more interested in having super easy early city caps from the AI in the start of the game, which gives the human player a huge advantage and a insane kickstart so the rest of the AI's wont ever catch up not even the extreme dif/nemesis one, then giving them time to expand and be a threat at all.


This maybe be a somewhat difficult concept, but:
Not everyone that disagrees with you has the exact opposite opinion. Especially not if the opposite of your position is such a cartoonish parody of logic.
There is a lot of room between [Your Opinion] and [Cartoonish Opposite you thought up]. And there are plenty of positions on that spectrum where people can disagree with you.

Nobody here disagrees on this needing work.
We are just well aware that it is not trivial and basically requires reworking major parts of the planet generation and history process.
So we try to make due with the mechanic we have, until Vic has time for such a massive rework. There is nothing else to be said about it.

(in reply to Jorgas)
Post #: 10
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/10/2021 12:33:48 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Everybody seems to be quite agreed here. Making notes!

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(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 11
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/10/2021 12:41:26 PM   
newageofpower


Posts: 261
Joined: 12/3/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Everybody seems to be quite agreed here. Making notes!

Please also allow players to select their start location. I've had lots of maps that could lead to epic campaigns, but became boring because of meh start location.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 12
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/10/2021 11:07:42 PM   
eddieballgame

 

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: newageofpower


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Everybody seems to be quite agreed here. Making notes!

Please also allow players to select their start location. I've had lots of maps that could lead to epic campaigns, but became boring because of meh start location.


Maybe a way of selecting zones could work out well.
For single player games, this does not bother me too much; more of an issue per multiplayer. imho

(in reply to newageofpower)
Post #: 13
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/11/2021 1:55:10 AM   
scottrossi

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/4/2020
Status: offline 		VIC YOU ARE THE BEST DEV, SERIOUSLY!

(in reply to eddieballgame)
Post #: 14
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/11/2021 4:48:11 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Everybody seems to be quite agreed here. Making notes!


Yes this would be my biggest request as well! Thanks for listening!

_____________________________


(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 15
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/11/2021 8:15:48 AM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame
Maybe a way of selecting zones could work out well.
For single player games, this does not bother me too much; more of an issue per multiplayer. imho

Also, generally being able to select what major you want to load your game into, even in singleplayer would be really nice !

(in reply to eddieballgame)
Post #: 16
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/11/2021 9:18:19 PM   
Tong_Lo

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/8/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame
Maybe a way of selecting zones could work out well.
For single player games, this does not bother me too much; more of an issue per multiplayer. imho

Also, generally being able to select what major you want to load your game into, even in singleplayer would be really nice !


This, it would be great to be able to select the number of Major you want to play against.
And overall scattered start positions, as an example Civilization (I know it's a way much simpler title), you start to gradually meet other "civs" the more you explore, which is good for early development.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 17
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/12/2021 8:46:55 AM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		No, that would be another setting, and you can already kind of control it.

What I mean is that when you load a game (and potentially when you start a game) is to be able to pick what major you're going to be playing.

How does it work right now for multiplayer - there must be a selection screen for each player to pick their Major, password-protected I assume ?

P.S.: The start positions are *already* scattered, this is where the issue comes from : they're perhaps *too* random, what we are asking here is for start positions to be (optionally) *less* random ( = less "scattered" ?).
Some Civilization titles also run into this issue... well, depending on your preferences.

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 3/12/2021 8:50:50 AM >

(in reply to Tong_Lo)
Post #: 18
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/12/2021 6:39:13 PM   
t1it

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		If not a being able to pick a start location, allow a random seed at least.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 19
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/15/2021 2:39:29 PM   
Culthrasa

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 4/16/2017
Status: offline 		+1 to more spread out starts!

(in reply to t1it)
Post #: 20
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/22/2021 3:27:00 AM   
KingHalford


Posts: 488
Joined: 8/18/2016
Status: offline 		I've been thinking the same, but I'd rather it was a history lesson option so that I can choose to have the existing system, which I've learned to love despite it sometimes throwing me "impossible" situations.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Culthrasa)
Post #: 21
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/24/2021 9:22:12 AM   
Solaristics


Posts: 195
Joined: 2/20/2002
From: UK
Status: offline 		I just started a game, small map and no history class options. About 15 turns in and I've carved out about a 20 hex (?) radius "D" with the sea along the straight side and 3 majors (or was it 4?!) spread out along the curved side. I'm still new to the game - should I just restart (I'd rather not) as I feel like I'm hemmed in? Pop of my zone is around 200k.

(in reply to KingHalford)
Post #: 22
RE: Major players need to be further away from each other - 3/24/2021 10:58:13 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Solaristics

I just started a game, small map and no history class options. About 15 turns in and I've carved out about a 20 hex (?) radius "D" with the sea along the straight side and 3 majors (or was it 4?!) spread out along the curved side. I'm still new to the game - should I just restart (I'd rather not) as I feel like I'm hemmed in? Pop of my zone is around 200k.

You might be able to fight yourself out of that. 200k is a lot of population.

But if you are still learning, you propably want to reroll.

(in reply to Solaristics)
Post #: 23
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