Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics

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Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 6:07:25 AM

Zemke

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Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Oklahoma
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I always default to NATO unit symbols because that is what I know, having learned them as a kid playing SPI and Avalon Hill wargames. In this game, it gets under my skin to see motorized infantry with a sometimes a Mechanized unit symbol or just plain infantry symbol. There is a correct unit graphic for almost every single type unit type used in this game, including machine gun units and other odd types.

Please refer to US Army manual FM 1-02 or what used to be FM 101-5-1.

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RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 9:22:28 AM

bvoid

Posts: 108
Joined: 5/16/2013
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The icon is correct, however if the unit loses it's motorized status because of dead trucks then the icon will change to infantry.

Similarly if there is lots of armor in the unit it will be shown as mech.

(in reply to Zemke)

Post #: 2

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 3:30:23 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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What bvoid said.
This actually affects the Graphical representations as well. A unit that has some trucks shoot out from under it will start being displayed as foot infantry.

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Post #: 3

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 3:37:00 PM

BlueTemplar

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Joined: 4/29/2010
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And of course it will *move* as foot infantry too !

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Post #: 4

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 6:14:19 PM

shabowie

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/12/2021
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

And of course it will *move* as foot infantry too !

Screw that I called shotgun in one of the trucks.

But to the op I believe the counter for self propelled artillery is wrong too, should have an armored circle around the artillery dot unless I�m misremembering

< Message edited by shabowie -- 3/12/2021 6:16:09 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 7:03:52 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

Screw that I called shotgun in one of the trucks.

"Welp, looks like shabowie is driving off on his own again."
To bad we have no trucks to follow!

On a serious note: Now that Trucks have a 80% chance to refund their Manpower, maybe the Table of Content will call for some reserve Trucks to offset any losses?

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Post #: 6

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 7:07:09 PM

BlueTemplar

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But isn't that already happening, just like with any other subunit ?

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Post #: 7

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 7:19:29 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

But isn't that already happening, just like with any other subunit ?

What are you refering to?

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Post #: 8

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 7:51:40 PM

Zemke

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Oklahoma
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bvoid

The icon is correct, however if the unit loses it's motorized status because of dead trucks then the icon will change to infantry.

Similarly if there is lots of armor in the unit it will be shown as mech.

That is NOT the correct unit symbol for "Motorized Infantry", the game uses a Mech Inf unit symbol, which is not correct.

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Post #: 9

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/12/2021 7:52:58 PM

BlueTemplar

Posts: 887
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
What are you refering to?

Automatic reinforcements from SHQ reserves during turn processing.

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 3/12/2021 8:05:41 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/13/2021 1:32:50 AM

mroyer

Posts: 914
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke

I always default to NATO unit symbols because that is what I know, having learned them as a kid playing SPI and Avalon Hill wargames. In this game, it gets under my skin to see motorized infantry with a sometimes a Mechanized unit symbol or just plain infantry symbol. There is a correct unit graphic for almost every single type unit type used in this game, including machine gun units and other odd types.

Please refer to US Army manual FM 1-02 or what used to be FM 101-5-1.

Yes, for the same reasons you list (eye-contact fluency mainly), I tried very hard to create a "proper" NATO unit mod. But, given how the images are assigned, it turns out to be nearly impossible to do it correctly. The best I could come up with is here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4836806

I even tried re-hosting the figurine images as NATO images, but that also gets screwed up too because the game shifts the image left and right when adding various equipment.

Alas, while annoying, in the grand scheme of things the NATO counter issue pales compared to how fun and thorough this game otherwise is.

-Mark R.

< Message edited by mroyer -- 3/13/2021 1:34:02 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/13/2021 2:42:21 PM

Solaristics

Posts: 195
Joined: 2/20/2002
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke

quote:

ORIGINAL: bvoid

The icon is correct, however if the unit loses it's motorized status because of dead trucks then the icon will change to infantry.

Similarly if there is lots of armor in the unit it will be shown as mech.

That is NOT the correct unit symbol for "Motorized Infantry", the game uses a Mech Inf unit symbol, which is not correct.

(in reply to Zemke)

Post #: 12

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/13/2021 4:21:34 PM

Zemke

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Oklahoma
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mroyer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke

I always default to NATO unit symbols because that is what I know, having learned them as a kid playing SPI and Avalon Hill wargames. In this game, it gets under my skin to see motorized infantry with a sometimes a Mechanized unit symbol or just plain infantry symbol. There is a correct unit graphic for almost every single type unit type used in this game, including machine gun units and other odd types.

Please refer to US Army manual FM 1-02 or what used to be FM 101-5-1.

Yes, for the same reasons you list (eye-contact fluency mainly), I tried very hard to create a "proper" NATO unit mod. But, given how the images are assigned, it turns out to be nearly impossible to do it correctly. The best I could come up with is here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4836806

I even tried re-hosting the figurine images as NATO images, but that also gets screwed up too because the game shifts the image left and right when adding various equipment.

Alas, while annoying, in the grand scheme of things the NATO counter issue pales compared to how fun and thorough this game otherwise is.

-Mark R.

I do agree in the larger picture, this is minor, but as a non-modder or programmer, I would think this would be a simple thing to get right. Tells you how much I know. It has a certain "clunkyness" about it in the programing maybe.

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Post #: 13

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/13/2021 4:56:10 PM

BlueTemplar

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It's mostly that Vic would have to add support for an additional "level" of symbols on the already existing two ?
(EDIT : Which is apparently on the "to-do list".)

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 3/13/2021 4:59:22 PM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/14/2021 2:29:24 PM

Zemke

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Oklahoma
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BTW, the motorized Infantry symbol is the rectangle box with the crossed lines, and two small circles under the box, like wheels. This denotes light infantry on trucks, vs mechanized infantry in ACPS of some sort, or "armored infantry", which is the rectangle box with crossed lines and the armor oval superimposed in the center, as in the game, (sometimes for motorized and "armored infantry). So Scott has it half correct.

Although IRL infantry does not fight from the APCs, they are only to allow the infantry to be able to maneuver on the same terrain as tanks. But the US Army manual FM101-5-1 is THE STANDARD for military symbology and uses the same symbology as the rest of NATO for obvious reasons. The Heer or German Army of WWII used somewhat different symbology, but now Germany and all of NATO use the same symbols. Sorry to be such a stickler about this, it just kind of gets under my professional skin...lol.

As I said, all in all, this game has a LOT of depth and has kept me engrossed for the better part of three weeks straight. There are many things I do not yet understand how things work though.
(1) Prospecting: It seems after a certain point, spending on prospecting should be kept at a minimum, as I never find anything new in older zones.
(2) Unit Experience: The 20sish is about as high as I can get new units. Is there a better way to train them higher? What I have been doing is husbanding them and fighting "natives"/marauders. Does putting the new units on a city with a higher level barracks help?

Any thoughts?

I bought this game to try something different and to tide me over till WiTE2 comes out, which will be very soon!

< Message edited by Zemke -- 3/14/2021 2:41:49 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/14/2021 2:52:41 PM

BlueTemplar

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Joined: 4/29/2010
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So, what do you think of the mod ?

Please use another thread for questions not related to the topic.
And both of these have probably already been answered (the manual mostly answers the 2nd one.)

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Post #: 16

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/14/2021 4:02:49 PM

Soar_Slitherine

Posts: 426
Joined: 6/7/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke
(1) Prospecting: It seems after a certain point, spending on prospecting should be kept at a minimum, as I never find anything new in older zones.

Yes. There's a prospecting report under Reports -> Overviews that tells you whether there are undiscovered resource deposits left in your zones.

quote:

(2) Unit Experience: The 20sish is about as high as I can get new units. Is there a better way to train them higher? What I have been doing is husbanding them and fighting "natives"/marauders. Does putting the new units on a city with a higher level barracks help?

Green troops will be able to achieve a higher maximum XP from training based on the proportion of more experienced troops in the unit. There is a section on unit experience in the manual.

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Post #: 17

RE: Please Use Correct NATO Unit Graphics - 3/16/2021 1:22:39 PM

Zemke

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Oklahoma
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I read the manual. My point is other than combat, exp usually tops out around the mid-20s, then after an easy win against marauders or something along those lines, I am seeing a gain of 10 to 15 exp. Are there any other ways other than what has been talked about to improve exp other than "special" cards or leaders?

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Post #: 18