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Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air Operations

 
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Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air Oper... - 2/9/2021 8:52:48 AM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Now that the AARs are up and running our next two showcases will take a slight change in approach. We’ll try and show a bit more of the functionality that WitE2 has to help the management of the huge complexity of the game. This showcase will focus on the air war.

WitE’s air war had quite a high level of abstraction with the moveable air base counters. In WitW there was a change to on map air bases and a separate air phase with instructions issued through air directives. This same approach is used in WitE2. However, the grander scale of WitE2, particularly the greater distances covered, has meant we have had to add a new concept – the Air Operational Group (AOG). AOGs allow the grouping of air units within a command structure and has some similarity to how different ground elements are grouped together within a combat or support unit. The key idea is that instead of having to individually manage every single air unit you can control them within the simpler AOG structure. To start with we’ll explain AOGs and then we’ll explain how air missions are controlled.

Your very first exposure to AOGs will be when you open your first scenario as the air planning phase is the first phase you will encounter.



The AOG labels function like counters in that they provide information about the AOG but they are not strictly on the map. Their positioning is aligned to the distribution of the AOG’s air units at air bases on the map. The only on map air related counters are high level air command HQs. AOGs have a 3 tiered command structure of Army, Corps and Div/Bde/Regt (Low-Level).

As is common across the game as you zoom in you can see more information and if you select a specific AOG then you can see more detail including sub-ordinate AOGs and associated air bases. In this screenshot I have selected I Fliegerkorps and then Gerdauen air base.



On the Gerdauen’s air base label you can see that it is short of supply and support with both of these marked in yellow. However, it has enough to function, you probably only need to worry if this shows as orange or red.

The AOG symbol is a little more complicated to explain so I’ve taken the liberty of stealing from the AOG One Page Guide we have done so you can see what’s what:



This snapshot hints at some of the functionality we have given AOGs to help you manage the air units more easily. We have included significant AI controlled air functionality. At the most extreme you and your opponent can select Automate AI Air Assist as a game preference which will result in the AI handling most of the air war. At an intermediate level there is the AI Air Assist button which you press to trigger the AI doing its stuff. For the lovers of management you can control everything yourself.

If you are happy to delegate control then HQ Follow is quite simple to understand – AOGs can be set to follow specific HQs as they move. Stance is a setting which dictates when air units will move as to do so at the wrong time may impact their ability to provide the air support needed. Mission Setting controls at what time of the day air missions will be flown. Of course you can also control the movement of AOGs manually.

I think the last paragraph highlights the key message in this showcase - there is real choice in how involved you are in the WitE2 air war. On the one hand you can do very little and allow the AI to be your air commander; on the other you can do it all yourself. In between there is a spectrum of layers of involvement to choose to suit your playing style.

Now that you have an understanding of the AOG structure and their subordinate air units we can look at how they are given instructions to conduct air operations. Those familiar with WitW will understand Air Directives but for those who aren’t let me explain. Air Directives (ADs) are a broad set on instructions that you give to control air units. These instructions can be summarised in terms like “I want Koluft 16 to recon area X” or “I want Fliegerkorps I to provide Ground Support to Army Group North”. In setting an AD you can specify more detailed criteria such as the time of day, number of aircraft to fly, escorts and altitude or leave them as is - it really is up to you! Whatever your choice the individual missions that are then flown to deliver the intent of the AD are controlled by the computer. This makes controlling the air war much simpler. A quick run of Axis Turn1 for GC41 using the ADs set in the scenario saw 6541 different sorties flown!

There are a choice of six different ADs:
- Ground Attack – This AD focuses on a map area and slows & interdicts enemy ground units.
- Strategic Bombing / Bomb City – Used to bomb production facilities & manpower in cities.
- Air Recon – Used to increase the detection level of enemy ground units in the target area.
- Air Superiority – Fighter units fly to an area and try to disrupt enemy missions in that area.
- Naval Patrol - – The units will attempt to create naval interdiction points in the target area.
and finally
- Ground Support – Provides ground units with direct air support during ground attacks. Unlike the other ADs Air Groups will fly during the ground movement phase.

In WitE2 by far the most important are Recon and Ground Support.

You are able on the map to show all the ADs that have been set so you can ensure you are covering the areas that you want. The green shaded hexes indicate the reach of the fighter escorts.



This neatly brings me on to the ability to show the ranges of air units from their air bases. Here you can see the range circles of JG54’s aircraft. JG54 is I Fliegerkorps’ fighter AOG – compare the circles with the green shaded hexes above. Certain AOGs are limited in the aircraft types they can use but actually that makes things easier to manage.



This next screenshot focuses on the Recon AD on the map for Luftflotte 1 which will be flown by Koluft 18 and Koluft 4 PGr. On the right hand side you can see some of the specified criteria.



You can move the AD boxes on the map to position them exactly as you need:



Once you are happy you can run the air turn and watch how things go a varying levels of information (more choice!). At the end you get a summary. This next screenshot shows Luftflotte 1, again focusing on the Recon AD assigned to Koluft 18 and Koluft 4 PGr:



As mentioned above Ground Support ADs are flown during the ground phase. In setting the AD you can allocate the air units to be used or set allocation to automatic. When you launch an attack using your ground forces you have the choice to specify whether air units will fly in support.

In summary I hope you can see we have added significant functionality to control air units within the new AOG construct and choice to allow you to either let the AI take most of the burden or immerse yourself in what has been described as a game within a game.



_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
Post #: 1
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 2/10/2021 1:36:44 AM   
CJM

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/12/2014
Status: offline 		I already know what I am buying myself for my birthday. Massive thanks and bravo to all involved in the birth of WiTE2 (and WiTE/WiTW, too)

_____________________________

The Wehrmacht that set out to conquer Russia in 1941 was a poor army with strictly limited resources.
- Supplying War (1977)

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 2
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 2/10/2021 10:25:11 PM   
MAS

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/25/2015
Status: offline 		Hello John, thanks for your work on this great project. I can't wait to get my copy. You guys have ruined WITE1 for me. It used to seem so comprehensive and detailed!

I've got a few questions on this thread.

1) In the first screenshot, are Luftflotte 1, I Fliegerkorps and all the individual Geswader (i.e. KG 1, JG54, etc) considered to be AOGs?

2) In the 2nd screenshot, I Fliegerkorps in the upper right hand corner has the numbers 331-400. What do these numbers represent?

3) same screenshot, under the Gerdauen airfield, the colors are different between I./KG 76 and II./KG 76 (one has JU 88A in red and the other just 88A in red) What's the distinction?

4) The recon AD Target Priorities are interesting. What kind of information would one obtain from prioritizing railways, ports or ferries? I assume a priority for interdiction would improve the effects of the aircraft actually flying interdiction? And since airfields have high recon priority on turn one, this would help the Luftwaffe destroy more VVS aircraft on the ground?

5) What AD do you use for airfield bombing, Ground Attack or Air Superiority?

Finally, if I haven't been too much of a pain, how can I sign up for beta testing?

Thanks,

Mark

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 3
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 2/11/2021 7:43:58 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MAS

Hello John, thanks for your work on this great project. I can't wait to get my copy. You guys have ruined WITE1 for me. It used to seem so comprehensive and detailed!

I've got a few questions on this thread.

1) In the first screenshot, are Luftflotte 1, I Fliegerkorps and all the individual Geswader (i.e. KG 1, JG54, etc) considered to be AOGs?

2) In the 2nd screenshot, I Fliegerkorps in the upper right hand corner has the numbers 331-400. What do these numbers represent?

3) same screenshot, under the Gerdauen airfield, the colors are different between I./KG 76 and II./KG 76 (one has JU 88A in red and the other just 88A in red) What's the distinction?

4) The recon AD Target Priorities are interesting. What kind of information would one obtain from prioritizing railways, ports or ferries? I assume a priority for interdiction would improve the effects of the aircraft actually flying interdiction? And since airfields have high recon priority on turn one, this would help the Luftwaffe destroy more VVS aircraft on the ground?

5) What AD do you use for airfield bombing, Ground Attack or Air Superiority?

Finally, if I haven't been too much of a pain, how can I sign up for beta testing?

Thanks,

Mark


1- yes, you have to use the air command (luftflotte for the axis and air army for the Soviets) and low level (say KG1 in that image), the intermediate level (I Fliegerkorps) is optional but useful for how you set up your orders. The 2 lower levels function similarly, the air command also has an on-map presence in the usual counter (but that is only to hold the commander and to affect the allocation of support squads)

2 - ready planes/total planes so it has some that are damaged or lack pilots

3 - the brown is the missing planes (as above), so 1'KG 76 has more missing (ie the brown part of the panel)

4 - railways allows you to see where the enemy rail net has reached and some idea of relative usage - this is obscured by FOW and can be useful for the Soviet player in 1941 when you maybe trying to work out where the FBD are. Ferries if you want to then bomb them (more use in WiTW but there are a few places where your opponent might be relying on them for local supply), ports again if those were the planned target of your later bombing missions.

Interdiction actually recons what might be vacant hexes, unit recons hexes with known units, so the trade off is to find out if there is anything you had never detected vs more abour stuff you know exists.

5 - GA - airbase is the mission for that, AS is an aggressive fighter sweep mission where you go looking for enemy fighters/bombers in the air. In truth not much use compared to WiTW when it was a standard mission for the Western Allies

_____________________________


(in reply to MAS)
Post #: 4
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 2/11/2021 7:50:20 AM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		OK

1) - Yes - you can just about see the size differences in the Boxes - Luftflotte 1 is a Army level AOG, I Fliegerkorps is a Corps level AOG and the others are low level. You only see AOG labels on the map and can only see the air units if you select an air base.

2) 331 Aircraft are ready from a total of 400 Aircraft in I Fliegerkorps.

3) Ready aircraft again - both have a total of 30 aircraft including damaged (which you can't see in the screenshots but can elsewhere).

4) Exactly as you intimate - the recon improves the chance of hits against those targets. Most players using manual control set up recon on days before attacks.

5) Ground Attack

Finally - expect an announcement in the next few weeks.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to MAS)
Post #: 5
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 2/23/2021 4:57:16 PM   
jack54


Posts: 1402
Joined: 7/18/2007
From: East Tennessee
Status: offline 		I remember some discussion of possible rectangle AD boxes; looks like it didn't make the cut though as they all seem Square?

It still looks very intriguing... thanks for all the info.

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Counter from Bloody April by Terry Simo (GMT)

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Post #: 6
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 2/23/2021 7:26:26 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		yes, its in squares but you can pull a few tricks. Both recon and naval interdiction happen both in the target box and along the path, so you can sometimes cut off a port by having a one hex target and angling the flight path to drop the interdiction exactly where you want it.

In WiTW, as the Axis player I've pulled this stunt to block off the Bristol Channel if I suspect they are going to invade France, its also a neat way to put the interdiction where their fighters probably aren't.

_____________________________


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Post #: 7
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/8/2021 3:49:23 PM   
ranknfile

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/9/2021
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		According to the manual (4.8.1) "...administrative movement cannot be used in a hex with any level of enemy interdiction."
Does that mean movement stops, or does the unit move through the interdicted hex with normal hex MP cost, and then continues its journey by rail?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 8
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/8/2021 4:31:24 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ranknfile

According to the manual (4.8.1) "...administrative movement cannot be used in a hex with any level of enemy interdiction."
Does that mean movement stops, or does the unit move through the interdicted hex with normal hex MP cost, and then continues its journey by rail?



admin movement is cheaper than normal moves (it also generates less fatigue). Think of it as the formation is in road movement mode, its not activelly patrolling, its not at risk of small scale ambushes. So the MP cost (& fatigue cost) of an interdicted hex returns to normal (its a bit situational as in some cases - clear weather/open terrain there is no difference as such).

It doesn't affect rail movement as such unless the interdiction reaches at least level 2 (or 3? - not totally sure) when it then adds SMP to the move costs

_____________________________


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Post #: 9
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/9/2021 3:42:45 PM   
Repsol

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/20/2010
Status: offline 		Hello...
In the multiplayer AAR...Is 821Bobo neglecting his airforce in the first few turns to allow his motorized units maximum supply ? or something else ?
It seems that he did not move his air units forward until turn 7...leaving the Russians petty unopposed (by air) for the first couple of turns...
Historically wasn't these first weeks the luftwaffes 'prime time' ? Is this normal (WAD)...Not being able to advance the air-units for many weeks ?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 10
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/9/2021 6:17:22 PM   
ranknfile

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/9/2021
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		Re: The low numbers of recon A/C in the late campaign (mentioned in the "Defending the Rodina - A Soviet WiTE2 AAR")

Without having access to the game, I may be wrong about all this, however:
- The manual says that recon flights must be targeted against enemy hexes (which I assume means: you cannot click on a friendly-controlled hex for the center of your recon area)
- The area is a square (from what I can tell, perhaps that can be changed?)

So, it appears that much of the area under air recon is beyond friendly fighter coverage (as in the illustration below). Could this be why the attrition is so high in recon aircraft throughout a long campaign?

Assuming one cannot place the (say) 10-hex square area of recon on a friendly hex (and have the entire area in the "green" fighter coverage); or make a rectangular area to recon (all in friendly fighter coverage); then - in order to not suffer excess attrition, it seems as though one must use most of one's recon flights in smaller (square) box areas (minimizing the deeper recon, which, admittedly, would still be desirable).

recon AD

(in reply to Repsol)
Post #: 11
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/9/2021 7:00:09 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Repsol

Hello...
In the multiplayer AAR...Is 821Bobo neglecting his airforce in the first few turns to allow his motorized units maximum supply ? or something else ?
It seems that he did not move his air units forward until turn 7...leaving the Russians petty unopposed (by air) for the first couple of turns...
Historically wasn't these first weeks the luftwaffes 'prime time' ? Is this normal (WAD)...Not being able to advance the air-units for many weeks ?



suggest the best approach is a post in that thread, different Axis player's have taken different approaches but fundamentally the LW and the Pzrs have to compete for fuel etc if you have the LW too far forward in large numbers

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranknfile

Re: The low numbers of recon A/C in the late campaign (mentioned in the "Defending the Rodina - A Soviet WiTE2 AAR")

Without having access to the game, I may be wrong about all this, however:
- The manual says that recon flights must be targeted against enemy hexes (which I assume means: you cannot click on a friendly-controlled hex for the center of your recon area)
- The area is a square (from what I can tell, perhaps that can be changed?)

So, it appears that much of the area under air recon is beyond friendly fighter coverage (as in the illustration below). Could this be why the attrition is so high in recon aircraft throughout a long campaign?

Assuming one cannot place the (say) 10-hex square area of recon on a friendly hex (and have the entire area in the "green" fighter coverage); or make a rectangular area to recon (all in friendly fighter coverage); then - in order to not suffer excess attrition, it seems as though one must use most of one's recon flights in smaller (square) box areas (minimizing the deeper recon, which, admittedly, would still be desirable).
...



the core problem is that long range flights with relatively low experience formations and low skill ground crews get hit by a lot of operational losses, so what the enemy gets up is almost irrelevant (for your recon assets), its your own side you need to watch

this then runs straight into player decision making. As the Soviet player in 1941 you start with a decent amount of recon planes and are, of course, very interested in what is going on behind the German lines (the reverse really kicks in post-43). So the temptation is to overdo it.

the art is to find relatively small recon boxes, that you can get just enough info out of to tell you something - forget knowing much more than that there is something there. With experience this is less a case of finding needles in haystacks as the map tends to dictate the big choices - so if the Pzrs aren't in one of them, they are in another.

I think its one of the many bits of WiTE1 unlearning that will be a feature of early game play, both sides have an enhanced capacity for strategic surprise, but oddly the map/VP system reduces the variables as to where this can happen


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Post #: 12
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/9/2021 8:19:10 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100
the art is to find relatively small recon boxes, that you can get just enough info out of to tell you something - forget knowing much more than that there is something there. With experience this is less a case of finding needles in haystacks as the map tends to dictate the big choices - so if the Pzrs aren't in one of them, they are in another.


Good point. I generally like setting the recon box to cover a 3x3 or 4x4 area. No more.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 13
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/9/2021 9:21:28 PM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline 		To any,

2 questions.
A) For example, let's say I decide to manually handle air directives on the opening turn of the Grand Campaign as the Germans. I decide to Ground Attack a Soviet Airfield in Lithuania in AGN's sector with some Ju88As from Luftflotte 1. How do I determine what the optimal altitude to use is, the default is 9000 ft. (in order to maximize the raids effect)? Is it aircraft type/class dependent? Or some combination of factors? Is it just a matter of tinkering around to get the best effect?

B)I notice that some of the aircraft losses are going to be classified as operational(op) losses. I understand that pilot fatigue and damaged planes may cause op losses. In my imagination I gather they might represent bad landings, disoriented pilots running out of fuel or landing in enemy territory, bad take offs? What do op losses actually represent or symbolize? Whatever the case, do these op losses count as permanent losses or damaged? Thanks.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 14
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/9/2021 9:27:51 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		a) yeah its a bit feng shui to be honest. The 9k works most of the time for most plausible missions. On D1 the Soviet airforce is already disorganised, so low level will work well, just don't go for long distances

b) its a mix, most usually its a plane that has non-catastrophic damage that fails to get back safely. But long range/poor weather/low quality pilots all feed into it.

Its a dead plane in any case, just its not been directly shot down in A2A combat or by AA fire.

_____________________________


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Post #: 15
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/9/2021 11:33:13 PM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline 		Thanks Loki,

By the way, for the 1st week of Barbarossa, it gives the default intensity as "(custom)1" and then if you decide to cycle through the intensity levels of "high", "medium", "low", then "(custom)1" does not appear as a choice anymore and you are left with just the h,m,l, to choose from. Is custom1 a special rules intensity or something?

(edit)*Nvm, I see its related to/a function of the number of strikes chosen. Thanks again.

< Message edited by Light4bettor -- 3/9/2021 11:52:30 PM >

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 16
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/10/2021 6:56:02 AM   
Repsol

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/20/2010
Status: offline



suggest the best approach is a post in that thread, different Axis player's have taken different approaches but fundamentally the LW and the Pzrs have to compete for fuel etc if you have the LW too far forward in large numbers

quote:




Ok...thanks.
I guess his limited use of the luftwaffe is the reason for his unusually speedy advance on the ground (according to GloriousRuse).


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 17
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/10/2021 6:57:17 AM   
Repsol

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/20/2010
Status: offline 		uuuh...the quoting got somewhat messed up there....Should have been the other way around

(in reply to Repsol)
Post #: 18
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/10/2021 3:55:55 PM   
ranknfile

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/9/2021
From: New Orleans
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: ranknfile

According to the manual (4.8.1) "...administrative movement cannot be used in a hex with any level of enemy interdiction."
Does that mean movement stops, or does the unit move through the interdicted hex with normal hex MP cost, and then continues its journey by rail?



admin movement is cheaper than normal moves (it also generates less fatigue). Think of it as the formation is in road movement mode, its not activelly patrolling, its not at risk of small scale ambushes. So the MP cost (& fatigue cost) of an interdicted hex returns to normal (its a bit situational as in some cases - clear weather/open terrain there is no difference as such).

It doesn't affect rail movement as such unless the interdiction reaches at least level 2 (or 3? - not totally sure) when it then adds SMP to the move costs


Thanks for your reply.
However, I was "thinking in an incorrect manner" ("To the Gulag with this one!") that rail movement was "Admin Movement."
Not a case of "Da", more a case of "duh!"

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 19
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/10/2021 7:06:51 PM   
rmeckman

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2019
Status: offline 		My experience in WitE1 was that early on the Axis had so many recon squadrons that the number of recon missions was virtually unlimited for any enemy area within range. The biggest restriction was the player's tolerance for going through the mouse clicks required to send missions to hexes. I'm curious how the air recon aspect plays out in WitE2 with FOW activated. Can players blanket the front with recon ADs, or do they have to be more focused on searching some areas while ignoring others?

(in reply to ranknfile)
Post #: 20
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/11/2021 2:47:19 PM   
ranknfile

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/9/2021
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		After playing a few tutorials, I intend to not check auto air management at game start, and hit AI Assist then modify various air-related matters.

According to 17.1.2:
" ... be careful as pressing the AI-assist button will over-ride any manual
changes (deployment, air directives etc.) you have made."

My question is: After making changes - specifically, putting a unit to "rest" status - will hitting "AI Assist" the next turn change this "Rest" status?
In other words, if I wish to rest an air unit for several turns, do I need to check on its rest status each subsequent turn I hit "AI Assist"

(in reply to rmeckman)
Post #: 21
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/11/2021 3:17:42 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		yes, if you press the AI-assist then it will intervene to re-organise everything. Now its good at resting stuff (& sending it to the reserve), but if you want a mixed approach, then be aware that it doesn't change things marginally, it will review everyting.

However, what you can do is use the assist for a few turns (say sorting out the guddle of the VVS after the axis T1), then revert to manual. Then at a later stage revert to the assist, this can be quite time efficient as the big task with the Soviets on t1 is getting all your depleted formations off the map.

_____________________________


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Post #: 22
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/11/2021 4:16:46 PM   
ranknfile

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/9/2021
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply.

I'm only assuming what I will do when I actually start playing the game; but I suspect I'll use AI Assist each turn, and then maybe leave "as is" or - more likely - make a few changes (not too much, just enough to satisfy my "inner Air Commander!"). Actually, I think I will like doing a few things outside the AI Assist, but not too much.

Come 25 March, I will find out if that's the case or not. I certainly will check auto Air for the first tutorial or two.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 23
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/11/2021 11:47:05 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Light4bettor

To any,

2 questions.
A) For example, let's say I decide to manually handle air directives on the opening turn of the Grand Campaign as the Germans. I decide to Ground Attack a Soviet Airfield in Lithuania in AGN's sector with some Ju88As from Luftflotte 1. How do I determine what the optimal altitude to use is, the default is 9000 ft. (in order to maximize the raids effect)? Is it aircraft type/class dependent? Or some combination of factors? Is it just a matter of tinkering around to get the best effect?



19.3.2. Altitude effects and antiaircraft
fire
Anti-aircraft guns have two range bands, effective ceiling and
maximum ceiling, which is generally 1.4 times the effective
ceiling. Fire is allowed up to the maximum ceiling, but any
fire above the effective ceiling will be considerably weaker.
When determining the effectiveness of flak, aircraft
speed is more important to aircraft flying at lower
altitudes. At higher altitudes the effectiveness of flak is
most impacted by the altitude itself (i.e. higher is better to
avoid being hit by flak).
In air to ground combat (19.4) it is assumed that fighter
and tactical bombers with a mission altitude over 5,000’
will actually conduct their attacks at 1,000’. This will lead
to additional anti-aircraft fire at the lower altitude as nonspecialist
weapon systems can also be used in an antiaircraft
role.
Air units that fly below 5,000’ for their mission will evade
most conventional anti-aircraft fire but may be vulnerable
to other weapons. In addition, low experience air units
flying at this altitude will suffer higher operational losses
(19.5.2).

So good altitude choice is probably just above effective ceiling of the most common light AA.

What might be interesting, though probably only for high experience Soviets in the late war, is to see what happens if you stick to 4900.

(in reply to Light4bettor)
Post #: 24
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/12/2021 12:25:36 AM   
Light4bettor

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/3/2020
Status: offline
quote:

In air to ground combat (19.4) it is assumed that fighter
and tactical bombers with a mission altitude over 5,000’
will actually conduct their attacks at 1,000’. This will lead
to additional anti-aircraft fire at the lower altitude as nonspecialist
weapon systems can also be used in an antiaircraft
role.


I would interpret this to mean that if I set an altitude of 7000 ft. for my Ju88s, then they would fly to the target at that altitude, but would be understood to drop down to 1000 feet during the actual bomb runs on the target (including calculations for Soviet AA fire). Then they would fly back to base climbing back to 7000 for the return trip. Is that what you understand also?

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 25
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/12/2021 5:02:50 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Ju88s are level bombers, so they won't drop down to bomb. Ju87s would dive down to bomb, as would fighter-bombers.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Light4bettor)
Post #: 26
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/12/2021 7:20:27 AM   
Arthurius

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/7/2019
Status: offline 		What is optimal number of missions for level bombers AOG per week? In WitW I find that after 3-4 weeks my level bombers morale drops to 20-35.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 27
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/12/2021 5:35:18 PM   
Repsol

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/20/2010
Status: offline 		From the manual:

"Manually assign airgroups or AOGs to a particular Air Directive they are then not avaliable for any other AD in that turn."

I'm sure this will not be a big issiue but i'm kind off curious for the reason for this rule ? If automatically picked airgroups and AOG will be able to participate in multiple ADs...Why not then also manually selected ones ?

Very minor issiue...i know ...Overall i think the airwar part of this upcomming game looks very intresting

(in reply to Arthurius)
Post #: 28
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/12/2021 7:11:09 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Repsol

From the manual:

"Manually assign airgroups or AOGs to a particular Air Directive they are then not avaliable for any other AD in that turn."

I'm sure this will not be a big issiue but i'm kind off curious for the reason for this rule ? If automatically picked airgroups and AOG will be able to participate in multiple ADs...Why not then also manually selected ones ?

Very minor issiue...i know ...Overall i think the airwar part of this upcomming game looks very intresting


The concept is from WiTW. I guess its akin to Stalin phoning up the Front Commander and telling him what to do in very precise terms as opposed to more generic instructions.

the other trade off is if you manually assign you know those assets will be available for that mission and not have used up their mileage or been cut up in combat somewhere else.

_____________________________


(in reply to Repsol)
Post #: 29
RE: Showcasing WitE2 #5 - Air Operational Groups & Air ... - 3/12/2021 8:13:04 PM   
Arthurius

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/7/2019
Status: offline 		Heve you plans for making some air only scenarios like ,,Weakest Link'' in WiTW? Campaign about VIII Fliegerkorps would be very nice.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 30
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