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OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked targeting computers

 
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OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked targeti... - 3/12/2021 2:47:22 PM   
AtParmentier

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 12/15/2019
Status: offline 		Today I found out that the Yamato-class had their radar sets linked to their main fire control computers. In a youtube vid it's stated that the surface radar sets were connected to the fire control computers located op top of the range finders. Haven't looked further into it to verify. If this is true then the night fighting and possibly the long range capabilities on Yamato ar far greater than previously thought. In the linked video states that the type 21 and type 22 were linked to the computers, so this would give a possible radar control to about 34km (21miles). How accurate the radars were and how good the computers were I do not know, but this would mean that for example Iowa would have a advantage of radar tracked fire control to a window of max 7km (4.5miles) before Yamato could return fire with its own radar fire control, if I remember the distances correctly.

Video about technology on Yamato.
Post #: 1
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/12/2021 2:57:24 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		A phat lot of good that would have done the Yamato anyway. It took itself out of the fight at Leyte Gulf and apparently was not very effective there. It could have ran down those CVEs and sideswiped them to sink them.

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Post #: 2
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/12/2021 3:26:04 PM   
Hrafnagud

 

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Status: offline 		Chalk and cheese. The Yamato's FC radar had a wavelength of 10cm and peak power of only 2 kW. That enabled her to possibly range her guns, but not train them with any level of accuracy. To do that, she remained dependent on her optics (which were excellent). The Iowas had a wavelength of only 3cm on their FC and far greater peak power, allowing them to get ranging AND training information at far greater range. Simply put - Yamato could possibly establish range with her radars, but she was utterly incapable of blindfire in the way the Iowas were.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 3
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/12/2021 6:22:54 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hrafnagud

Chalk and cheese. The Yamato's FC radar had a wavelength of 10cm and peak power of only 2 kW. That enabled her to possibly range her guns, but not train them with any level of accuracy. To do that, she remained dependent on her optics (which were excellent). The Iowas had a wavelength of only 3cm on their FC and far greater peak power, allowing them to get ranging AND training information at far greater range. Simply put - Yamato could possibly establish range with her radars, but she was utterly incapable of blindfire in the way the Iowas were.

The US was also far ahead in electronic calculations to aid in setting the deflection of the shot (leading the target to account for travel time of the shell and the target). I am not sure if the deflection was automatically transmitted to the guns or just displayed for the crew to manually input. If unknown factors like winds and humidity resulted in a miss the officer in the rangefinder could call in a correction for the next salvo. After that the target would be in serious doo-doo.

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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/12/2021 6:24:09 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A phat lot of good that would have done the Yamato anyway. It took itself out of the fight at Leyte Gulf and apparently was not very effective there. It could have ran down those CVEs and sideswiped them to sink them.


A tad more to it than what you say. Your failure to mention the air attacks the IJN were subjected to at time is a sin of omission.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/12/2021 6:56:59 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
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From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		Kurita messed up.

He should have kept on charging the USN forces but didn't. The air attacks were brave but they did not have a lot of stuff that could really hurt her. Truly a David and Goliath fight. The US airmen and the DD/DEs took on a much superior force and WON, when you look at what was lost on the IJN CA side. You turn towards the torps, not away from them. Then if you do get hit it is in the bow, not a real biggie in the bow, but potentially a PITA in the stern (Bismarck). So the other sin is neglecting how the ship was used.....

(in reply to Rusty1961)
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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/12/2021 7:35:16 PM   
Dan1977

 

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Status: offline 		Didn't the Yamato spend most of the war as a floating HQ? Trick question, yes a lot of time just sitting around.

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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/12/2021 10:26:56 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A phat lot of good that would have done the Yamato anyway. It took itself out of the fight at Leyte Gulf and apparently was not very effective there. It could have ran down those CVEs and sideswiped them to sink them.


A tad more to it than what you say. Your failure to mention the air attacks the IJN were subjected to at time is a sin of omission.


I did not fail to mention that. To the Yamato, those air attacks did very little. I also did not mention that Kurita and his staff had very little sleep, had to transfer their flag which the ship that it was on was torpedoed and sank, among other details. The Japanese forgot the most important item of all was that they needed to win that battle.

Sieg Heil!

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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/13/2021 9:44:16 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked targeting computers


Apparently there are JFBs putting misleading YouTubes on the internet.

Did they have one of these? No, apparently not.







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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/13/2021 12:32:24 PM   
Sardaukar


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Status: offline 		Yamato was bit of "white elephant".

Nice to have and impressive, but saw very little use that'd matter.

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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/13/2021 1:12:57 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Yamato was bit of "white elephant".

Nice to have and impressive, but saw very little use that'd matter.


One very nice, useful thing about the Yamato was that the US Navy got the Iowa class battleships.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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Post #: 11
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/13/2021 7:26:37 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Yamato was bit of "white elephant".

Nice to have and impressive, but saw very little use that'd matter.


One very nice, useful thing about the Yamato was that the US Navy got the Iowa class battleships.


At 33 knts ... but the 5 Montanas against Shinano and Kii (Hull 111), and Hull 797, is still an overmatch.

Actually BB-65 Illinois and BB-66 Kentucky are an overmatch before you build a single Montana.

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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/14/2021 3:09:17 PM   
Bo Rearguard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

One very nice, useful thing about the Yamato was that the US Navy got the Iowa class battleships.


Was anyone in US naval ship planning even aware that the Yamato class existed when the Iowas were being designed? I seem to recall the Japanese went out of their way to keep the Yamato and Musashi's construction secret.


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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/14/2021 4:04:12 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

One very nice, useful thing about the Yamato was that the US Navy got the Iowa class battleships.


Was anyone in US naval ship planning even aware that the Yamato class existed when the Iowas were being designed? I seem to recall the Japanese went out of their way to keep the Yamato and Musashi's construction secret.


The US knew the Japanese had two BBs left to fill their quota of capital ships from the naval treaties (I forget whether it was the London or Washington treaty that set the Japanese quota at 2/3 of British and American levels. What they did not know is that the Japanese went overboard on how big these things were.
The Japanese hid the size by letting the west think that they had two 35,000 ton BBs under construction and two 27,000 ton CBs with 12" guns (which were the inspiration for the Alaska class CBs). The CBs were to account for the amount of steel being used in the construction of Yamato and Musashi - 35K+27K=62K.

When displacement limits expired, the US was eager to build BBs fast enough to keep up with the carriers (or rather to allow the carriers to operate at full speed because the BB was still viewed as the main punch and CVs were there for support). So they stretched the South Dakota class design to a longer hull and this allowed more boiler/engine power for the speed (armament and armour being much the same). Even once the US had recon photos and sub observation of the Yamato class it was difficult to pin down the displacement and gun size for certain. Decoding intel may have provided the info needed. Not sure if the US ever knew the full specs during the war.

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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/14/2021 6:52:35 PM   
Hrafnagud

 

Posts: 87
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Status: offline 		The Yanks had a relatively good idea:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-084.php

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 15
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/14/2021 7:00:27 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hrafnagud

The Yanks had a relatively good idea:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-084.php


Thank you.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Hrafnagud)
Post #: 16
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/14/2021 7:12:24 PM   
Hrafnagud

 

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Status: offline 		That being said, the Iowas were initially designed in response to the conversion of the Kongos. At the time (around 1938) the US designers only knew that the Japanese were violating the naval treaties, so they invoked the escalator clauses under the treaties. In mid-1938 they expanded the allowable max displacement to 45,000 long tons, which allowed the design of the Iowas. At the time I think they thought the heaviest the Japanese could go was around 45,000 tons, there were also serious doubts about the abilities of Japanese industry to engineer a naval gun larger than 16-inch calibre.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 17
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/14/2021 8:09:51 PM   
BBfanboy


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Status: offline 		Per that article, the US experts were pretty accurate about the difficulties a ship that big would have with navigation and port use.

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RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/14/2021 11:17:42 PM   
Dan1977

 

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Status: offline 		Another thing to consider is that the Iowa class was designed to use the Panama Canal, unlike the Montana class or CVB-Midway. Those are important strategic & operational considerations during the 2 Ocean War.

Another consideration in Japanese ship building that is often forgotten: Because of the extreme shortage of steel, the IJN often had to resort to recycling (decommission & breakup older ships) for the necessary steel scrap. If someone was thinking of modding the scenarios to add more IJN capital ships, but stay within the bounds of reality, then they should consider eliminating older ships from service to provide the necessary steel. Even in the US during the war, steel was rationed, such that the US Navy could not build everything it wanted.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 19
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/15/2021 12:23:26 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan1977

Another thing to consider is that the Iowa class was designed to use the Panama Canal, unlike the Montana class or CVB-Midway. Those are important strategic & operational considerations during the 2 Ocean War.

Another consideration in Japanese ship building that is often forgotten: Because of the extreme shortage of steel, the IJN often had to resort to recycling (decommission & breakup older ships) for the necessary steel scrap. If someone was thinking of modding the scenarios to add more IJN capital ships, but stay within the bounds of reality, then they should consider eliminating older ships from service to provide the necessary steel. Even in the US during the war, steel was rationed, such that the US Navy could not build everything it wanted.


US steel was rationed but one US state alone shipped out enough iron ore to produce one fifth of the worlds production of steel in 1942.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Dan1977)
Post #: 20
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/15/2021 1:09:12 AM   
Dan1977

 

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Status: offline 		RangerJoe,
I assume you are referring to your favorite state?

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Post #: 21
RE: OT: Apparantly Yamato had radar assisted/linked tar... - 3/15/2021 2:08:59 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan1977

RangerJoe,
I assume you are referring to your favorite state?


My favorite state is inebriation . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Dan1977)
Post #: 22
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