Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/simulation?

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Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/simu... - 3/12/2021 9:45:45 PM

VonWulfen

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Joined: 5/19/2017
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Hello all.
I am currently playing Gary Grigsby�s WITPAE and despite still being on the first turn, still setting up my orders I am thoroughly engrossed.
It has been an intense experience with almost 2 weeks of video tutorials, forum hunting, spreadsheets, and manuals.
The depth of the game is immense and I am blown away by the detail.
Now imagine if Gary Grigsby was to make Empire in the age of sail...
I know the scale and numbers involved are far smaller but this would allow him to deep dive into every aspect of the ship's crew and ship management, everything from ballast type and stowage to weed build upon the hull. A super detailed weather system with authentic navigation tools, the list could just go on and on.
Will we ever get such a detailed age of sail game?
I for one would throw my purse at them :)

Post #: 1

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/12/2021 10:14:31 PM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VonWulfen
Now imagine if Gary Grigsby was to make Empire in the age of sail...
I know the scale and numbers involved are far smaller but this would allow him to deep dive into every aspect of the ship's crew and ship management, everything from ballast type and stowage to weed build upon the hull. A super detailed weather system with authentic navigation tools, the list could just go on and on.
Will we ever get such a detailed age of sail game?
I for one would throw my purse at them :)

I think that the best men for this specific job would be the guys at NWS, who gave us masterpieces from Steam and Iron to Rule the Waves II. It is in these games that you find the level of ship-detail you are looking for.

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Post #: 2

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/12/2021 10:37:53 PM

IslandInland

Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VonWulfen

Hello all.
I am currently playing Gary Grigsby�s WITPAE and despite still being on the first turn, still setting up my orders I am thoroughly engrossed.
It has been an intense experience with almost 2 weeks of video tutorials, forum hunting, spreadsheets, and manuals.
The depth of the game is immense and I am blown away by the detail.
Now imagine if Gary Grigsby was to make Empire in the age of sail...
I know the scale and numbers involved are far smaller but this would allow him to deep dive into every aspect of the ship's crew and ship management, everything from ballast type and stowage to weed build upon the hull. A super detailed weather system with authentic navigation tools, the list could just go on and on.
Will we ever get such a detailed age of sail game?
I for one would throw my purse at them :)

I would second RFalvo69 as regards NWS.

https://nwswargamingstore.net/shop/ols/categories/naval-warfare-simulations

Steam has this but is probably nowhere near as detailed as you might like.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1069650/Ultimate_Admiral_Age_of_Sail/

< Message edited by IslandInland -- 3/13/2021 12:27:40 AM >

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Post #: 3

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/12/2021 11:08:45 PM

rommel222

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Greetings VonWulfen,
I agree with RFalvo69 & IslandInland, go with NWS!

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Post #: 4

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 12:02:34 AM

VonWulfen

Posts: 177
Joined: 5/19/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

quote:

ORIGINAL: VonWulfen
Now imagine if Gary Grigsby was to make Empire in the age of sail...
I know the scale and numbers involved are far smaller but this would allow him to deep dive into every aspect of the ship's crew and ship management, everything from ballast type and stowage to weed build upon the hull. A super detailed weather system with authentic navigation tools, the list could just go on and on.
Will we ever get such a detailed age of sail game?
I for one would throw my purse at them :)

I think that the best men for this specific job would be the guys at NWS, who gave us masterpieces from Steam and Iron to Rule the Waves II. It is in these games that you find the level of ship-detail you are looking for.

Many thanks, sir.
I am somewhat of a newcomer to these more niche, in-depth and complex strategy games and had never really heard about the games you mention.
I went straight to the website and was extremely pleased to see they had a demo for Steam & Iron, which I promptly downloaded.
It�s 1am here so a little late to boot it up and I know if I do, I�ll still be sitting at my PC come 6am..
Looking forward to giving the game my full attention tomorrow:)

(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 5

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 12:08:11 AM

VonWulfen

Posts: 177
Joined: 5/19/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IslandInland

quote:

ORIGINAL: VonWulfen

Hello all.
I am currently playing Gary Grigsby�s WITPAE and despite still being on the first turn, still setting up my orders I am thoroughly engrossed.
It has been an intense experience with almost 2 weeks of video tutorials, forum hunting, spreadsheets, and manuals.
The depth of the game is immense and I am blown away by the detail.
Now imagine if Gary Grigsby was to make Empire in the age of sail...
I know the scale and numbers involved are far smaller but this would allow him to deep dive into every aspect of the ship's crew and ship management, everything from ballast type and stowage to weed build upon the hull. A super detailed weather system with authentic navigation tools, the list could just go on and on.
Will we ever get such a detailed age of sail game?
I for one would throw my purse at them :)

I would second RFalvo69 as regards NWS.

https://nwswargamingstore.net/shop/ols/categories/naval-warfare-simulations

Steam has this but is probably no near as detailed as you might like.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1069650/Ultimate_Admiral_Age_of_Sail/

Many thanks, sir.
I own Ultimate Admiral and was a little disappointed to tell the truth. It�s an ok RTS but has no real depth.
Plus the actual area for the naval battles is far to small, it just feels cramped and restricted with no real sense of scale.

(in reply to IslandInland)

Post #: 6

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 12:16:06 AM

IslandInland

Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline

I have all the main NWS games; Steam and Iron, Russo-Japanese War, Supremacy At Sea, Rule The Waves and Rule The Waves 2.

They all well worth your time and money.

Rule The Waves 2 is their magnum opus and an expansion/DLC is due soon-ish.

https://nws-online.proboards.com/thread/5684/ironclads-missile-cruisers-rtw2-expansion

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 12:17:45 AM

Elessar2

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It's been a rather disappointing decade or so for 3D level sims. The primo exemplar has to be the MMO effort Naval Action, whose devs are apparently close-minded gits who have utterly refused to have expanded the gameplay any since the game's release. Others get announced, then vaporware'ed and forgotten. The sim linked above looks intriguing, but who knows if it will get dropped by the publisher at some point (it's apparently not released yet).

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Post #: 8

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 1:10:11 AM

VonWulfen

Posts: 177
Joined: 5/19/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings VonWulfen,
I agree with RFalvo69 & IslandInland, go with NWS!

They do have some intriguing looking games. I may have just found another rabbit hole me thinks :)

(in reply to rommel222)

Post #: 9

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 1:25:18 AM

VonWulfen

Posts: 177
Joined: 5/19/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IslandInland

I have all the main NWS games; Steam and Iron, Russo-Japanese War, Supremacy At Sea, Rule The Waves and Rule The Waves 2.

They all well worth your time and money.

Rule The Waves 2 is their magnum opus and an expansion/DLC is due soon-ish.

https://nws-online.proboards.com/thread/5684/ironclads-missile-cruisers-rtw2-expansion

Many thanks again sir.
So would I be better of purchasing Rule the waves 2 rather than Steam & Iron?
Is steam and Iron a sort of forerunner to RTW2?
I just read RTW2 start date is 1900, it was this earlier period that attracted me to Steam & Iron but if the newer features of RTW2 improve on those of Steam & Iron maybe that�s the one I should invest in first.

(in reply to IslandInland)

Post #: 10

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 1:34:32 AM

VonWulfen

Posts: 177
Joined: 5/19/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

It's been a rather disappointing decade or so for 3D level sims. The primo exemplar has to be the MMO effort Naval Action, whose devs are apparently close-minded gits who have utterly refused to have expanded the gameplay any since the game's release. Others get announced, then vaporware'ed and forgotten. The sim linked above looks intriguing, but who knows if it will get dropped by the publisher at some point (it's apparently not released yet).

Another big disappointment in Naval Action I�m afraid.
I purchased it at early access. I went back and installed it recently and found very little had changed. There is still no feeling of managing the everyday running of a ship and its crew. Not even stores and water, pretty essential I would have thought. Another great idea poorly executed I�m afraid. They do have a new Nautical game on the horizon that sounds a lot more in depth than Naval Action. I believe it�s called Sea Legends.

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Post #: 11

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 1:41:47 AM

IslandInland

Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VonWulfen

quote:

ORIGINAL: IslandInland

I have all the main NWS games; Steam and Iron, Russo-Japanese War, Supremacy At Sea, Rule The Waves and Rule The Waves 2.

They all well worth your time and money.

Rule The Waves 2 is their magnum opus and an expansion/DLC is due soon-ish.

https://nws-online.proboards.com/thread/5684/ironclads-missile-cruisers-rtw2-expansion

Many thanks again sir.
So would I be better of purchasing Rule the waves 2 rather than Steam & Iron?
Is steam and Iron a sort of forerunner to RTW2?
I just read RTW2 start date is 1900, it was this earlier period that attracted me to Steam & Iron but if the newer features of RTW2 improve on those of Steam & Iron maybe that�s the one I should invest in first.

In Rules The Waves 2 you design your own ships. That is it's big selling point.

In Steam and Iron you fight campaigns and premade battles. UK v Germany WW I and Russia v Japan in the Russo Japanese War expansion which is a separate game from the base Steam and Iron.

I would recommend all three games but if I had to chose one I would go for Rule The Waves 2.

In RTW 2 you will design your own ships and fight wars with the other great naval powers of the age.

They will not simulate historical wars. You could play as the UK and fight the US in 1940.

< Message edited by IslandInland -- 3/13/2021 4:22:38 AM >

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 1:45:36 AM

IslandInland

Posts: 891
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From: YORKSHIRE
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Steam and Iron Campaign.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 2:02:48 AM

IslandInland

Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
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I've tried to upload more screenshots in particular from Rule The Waves 2 but as usual the Matrix forum is not fit for purpose and just refuses to post them once I have tried to upload them.

You can get a flavour of Rule The Waves 2 ship design here.

https://nws-online.proboards.com/thread/5302/best-ships-designs

and there are a whole host of videos to watch about the game here.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rule+the+waves+2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2qqbUHzjks

IMO the game is a bargain at twice the price. There is nothing really like it currently on the market.

< Message edited by IslandInland -- 3/13/2021 2:06:06 AM >

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 2:13:28 AM

VonWulfen

Posts: 177
Joined: 5/19/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IslandInland

I've tried to upload more screenshots in particular from Rule The Waves 2 but as usual the Matrix forum is not fit for purpose and just refuses to post them once I have tried to upload them.

You can get a flavour of Rule The Waves 2 ship design here.

https://nws-online.proboards.com/thread/5302/best-ships-designs

and there are a whole host of videos to watch about the game here.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rule+the+waves+2

IMO the game is a bargain at twice the price. There is nothing really like it currently on the market.

Many, many thanks sir.
Very much appreciate your taking the time to give a detailed reapply.
I will try both games out tomorrow, or rather this evening as it�s 3am. As you say, for the price I could get both games if they grab my interest, which is already considerable:)

(in reply to IslandInland)

Post #: 15

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 3:31:40 AM

Perturabo

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Has anyone here tried Peter Turcan's Armada?

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 4:56:20 AM

DeepBlack

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Misplaced reply - ignore

< Message edited by DeepBlack -- 3/13/2021 5:07:18 AM >

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/13/2021 11:32:55 PM

VonWulfen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Has anyone here tried Peter Turcan's Armada?

Never heard of it but It seems the game will actually run on windows 10 according to the website.

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Post #: 18

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/14/2021 12:44:23 AM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepBlack

Misplaced reply - ignore

What?

Why should we ignore a misplaced reply. We should ponder the situation and speculate what the reply was and where it should have gone. Then we may ignore it or not.

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/14/2021 6:28:48 AM

Orm

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

What?

Why should we ignore a misplaced reply. We should ponder the situation and speculate what the reply was and where it should have gone. Then we may ignore it or not.

Hear, hear.

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/14/2021 6:35:11 AM

Orm

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I would like an Age of Sail game where there is a long campaign, with role playing elements included. And where you can attack forts, and other objects on land, with landing parties as well as from sea. It would be nice if it included battles in difficult sailing conditions. And a jump forward in time feature.

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RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/14/2021 8:32:21 AM

DeepBlack

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would like an Age of Sail game where there is a long campaign, with role playing elements included. And where you can attack forts, and other objects on land, with landing parties as well as from sea. It would be nice if it included battles in difficult sailing conditions. And a jump forward in time feature.

That sounds a lot like Ye Olde Sid Meier's Pirates!

< Message edited by DeepBlack -- 3/14/2021 8:47:17 AM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/14/2021 8:42:20 AM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would like an Age of Sail game where there is a long campaign, with role playing elements included. And where you can attack forts, and other objects on land, with landing parties as well as from sea. It would be nice if it included battles in difficult sailing conditions. And a jump forward in time feature.

NWS already has the framework for this kind of campaign in the strategic engine they use for their games (the same used not only for S&I's campaigns and RTW2, but even for Thunder at Sea - which used a modded version of Fighting Steel to solve the tactical battles).

I think that "Sail the Waves" is a perfectly doable project... they only have to roll up their sleeves and do it

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Post #: 23

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/14/2021 11:20:27 AM

Rising-Sun

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Yeah i picked Naval Action few years ago, they are still in early access atm. I wasnt too impress with it, been looking for something to command a ship and travel to new worlds (America) and back to motherland. Wanted to see what that would feel like, dont think there a game like that.

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Post #: 24

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/15/2021 12:29:26 AM

VonWulfen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would like an Age of Sail game where there is a long campaign, with role playing elements included. And where you can attack forts, and other objects on land, with landing parties as well as from sea. It would be nice if it included battles in difficult sailing conditions. And a jump forward in time feature.

NWS already has the framework for this kind of campaign in the strategic engine they use for their games (the same used not only for S&I's campaigns and RTW2, but even for Thunder at Sea - which used a modded version of Fighting Steel to solve the tactical battles).

I think that "Sail the Waves" is a perfectly doable project... they only have to roll up their sleeves and do it

Would love to see an Age of Sail mod for RTW2, now that I have purchased it, yes I could not resist once everyone had recommended it 😉
Or even an official DLC, what is the likelihood do you think?

(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 25

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/15/2021 1:39:13 AM

VonWulfen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun

Yeah i picked Naval Action few years ago, they are still in early access atm. I wasnt too impress with it, been looking for something to command a ship and travel to new worlds (America) and back to motherland. Wanted to see what that would feel like, dont think there a game like that.

I know what you mean.
That would be an interesting scenario in itself, discovering the new world I mean.
Especially if you could map it, create charts, take soundings, send shore parties to map islands and take accurate longitude/latitude measurements.
Have a naturalist present of course for all the botanical, insect, bird, and animal discoveries :)
Then of course you would have to either defeat or befriend the natives, so many possibilities, but I can dream 💭

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Post #: 26

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/15/2021 10:10:32 AM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VonWulfen
Would love to see an Age of Sail mod for RTW2, now that I have purchased it, yes I could not resist once everyone had recommended it 😉

I have a book to suggest you. It is exactly about being the "architect" of a nation's naval arms race - including the change of needs due to shifting alliances, unexpected technical breakthroughs, and even the Prime Minister being a PitA up to the risk to be fired.

I read this book while I was spending some days recovered in a clinic and I bought RTW 1 as soon as I returned home. The game simulated what I had read so well that one could use this book as a form of strategy guide ("How to Keep Up with France as Italy and other 100+ Suggestions for not Getting Fired"

). I wrote to Fredrik Wallin asking him if he had used it as part of the research for the game, but he never heard about it. A genuine moment of synchronicity

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 27

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/15/2021 11:21:42 AM

Rising-Sun

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From: Clifton Park, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VonWulfen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun

Yeah i picked Naval Action few years ago, they are still in early access atm. I wasnt too impress with it, been looking for something to command a ship and travel to new worlds (America) and back to motherland. Wanted to see what that would feel like, dont think there a game like that.

I know what you mean.
That would be an interesting scenario in itself, discovering the new world I mean.
Especially if you could map it, create charts, take soundings, send shore parties to map islands and take accurate longitude/latitude measurements.
Have a naturalist present of course for all the botanical, insect, bird, and animal discoveries :)
Then of course you would have to either defeat or befriend the natives, so many possibilities, but I can dream 💭

There are few games out there you might wanna look into, but they arent that great, but okay...

Conquest of the New World (very old game)
Commander: Conquest of the Americas
Port Royale 3 (not sure about other series)
Europa Universalis IV (grand scale strategy game)

My personal favorite is...
Sid Meier's Civilization IV (Colonization)

I wanted something like Naval Combat, showing that you command a ship at sea in 3D traveling back in fourth to your motherland, of course explore and meet natives. There were one called East Indies Company, think it was bugged and got pulled from the markets. Paradox arent good fix their problems or keeping up to date with their games or software.

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Post #: 28

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/15/2021 1:31:59 PM

DeepBlack

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"Seven Cities of Gold" Was nice (for its time).
You role played as a European explorer like Columbus.
You had to establish forts or missions in the New World.

A big part of the game was uncovering the map.
There was a historical map but the fun came with
uncovering randomly generated maps.

You journeyed back and forth between Europe and the New World.
Sometimes small outposts you had established vanished like the "Lost Colony".

The neat part about exploring was there was an Inca civilization hidden away
and discovering its whereabouts was key to future exploration prospects.

There was a cool naturalist aspect in that there were "Great Rivers"
to be discovered, a forest of "Giant Trees" and a "Grand Canyon"

I just think it is way too old to revisit and actually play. Would
be similar to being forced to listen to music on 8-track tapes.

I saw a used "Pablo Cruise" 8-track tape for sale at a thrift shop way
back in the late 90's. Even then I was dumbfounded by the thought,
"Who the heck still uses an 8-track tape player!?".

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Post #: 29

RE: Will we ever get a truly epic age of sail strategy/... - 3/16/2021 12:05:08 AM

Alex777