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Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 2:51:31 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline 		I have 5 chits of diplo in Turkey for all of 1944 and nothing has ever happened. Highly doubt my opponent is wasting any points on this as Russia is about to fall. I took the raise Turkey towards Axis side event vs MPPs. It has sat at 83% Axis for a year ever since despite 5 chits of diplo...

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 3/17/2021 2:52:26 AM >

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RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 3:09:05 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline 		The Ottoman Empire is sitting this one out.
Don't try your luck in Vegas.
Have experienced same thing.

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Without Him, I could do nothing
Without Him, I'd surely fail
Without Him, I would be drifting
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(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 2
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 3:13:13 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

The Ottoman Empire is sitting this one out.
Don't try your luck in Vegas.
Have experienced same thing.


Gotta be a bug then?

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Post #: 3
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 3:18:34 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline 		Yeah Tanaka, I've had a keen eye on that since early 44...and then when Sevastopol fell, I thought that would be the final trigger. I did put some MMP into diplo on that in 42 or 43 (I can check when I pull my turn)...after I figured you did. Weirdly, it was at 84% I believe then back slid in my favor for a bit...than crept back to 83% pro-axis...and stopped.

Possibly its a bug. Its seems I have read or heard about this issue before.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 3/17/2021 10:33:14 AM >

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 4
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 6:35:37 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline 		Tanaka..I pulled my turn. So, yeah...Turkey was pro-Axis in the 75% and up to 83% range for some time. When we were having that big fight in the Caucasus and Iran, I had the USA drop 150 MMP's in diplo on Turkey..got a hit, and dumped 50 more MMP's. I still had Sevastopol, but when it finally went down later on...Turkey's pro-axis mobilization never budged. I though the fall of Sevastopol created a scripted percentage range boost on Turkeys mobilization.

I'm not sure what is going on..but I was watching Turkey like a hawk...especially with those crazy running battles in Soviet and Iranian Azerbaijan. This can't be bad luck on your diplo checks I think. Again, I'm not sure..but I have been taking notes all along on this match of ours..and definitely something seems wonky here.

Image is the record of USA diplo attempts on Turkey (twice) and French Equatorial Africa.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 3/17/2021 6:52:12 AM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 10:03:11 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		There are two scripts that can move Turkey towards the Axis that are related to Axis advances to, and the capture of, Sevastopol or other locations. I've pasted them below for reference.

It's probable that the first has already fired in your game, whereas the second one only has a one-off 50% chance of firing (as the Turks may well be indifferent to further advances).

If you are both investing in diplomacy with Turkey then the actual chance of the Axis moving Turkey further that way is the difference between Axis and Allied investments, bearing in mind that the US chits have more sway than anyone else's: 7% chance per chit per turn, as opposed to 5%.

So you might need to compare how many chits you both have invested, and by whom, to work out the real per turn chance of Turkey being swayed further by diplomacy.



; Axis land units 1 hex from Sevastopol resulting in a
; 5-10% increase in Turkish mobilization towards Axis
{
#NAME= Axis Advance On Sevastopol (Turkey->Axis)
#POPUP= <<TAG_45>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 111
#TRIGGER= 100
#DATE= 1939/09/01
; 5-10% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [5,10] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Germany politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; Axis has 1-2 units 1 hex from Sevastopol
#CONDITION_POSITION= 124,49 [1,1] [1,2] [1] [0]
}

; Axis forces capture Sevastopol resulting in a
; 10-20% increase in Turkish mobilization towards Axis
{
#NAME= Axis Advance To Sevastopol (Turkey->Axis)
#POPUP= <<TAG_46>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 0
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 111
#TRIGGER= 50
#DATE= 1939/09/01
; 10-20% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [10,20] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Germany politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; Axis has 1 unit in Sevastopol
#CONDITION_POSITION= 124,49 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
; Axis has 1 unit in Maikop
#CONDITION_POSITION= 130,49 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
; Axis has 1 unit in Grozny
#CONDITION_POSITION= 136,50 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
; Axis has 1 unit in Grozny Oilfield
#CONDITION_POSITION= 135,49 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
}

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(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 6
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 10:30:13 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline 		Hmmm...Interesting. So, its possible my USA diplo efforts on Turkey might of stopped the Germans cold then. Tanaka piled 5 on so he's at 25%. There was no Japanese or Italian diplo if I remember correctly and my 4 USA diplo chits on Turkey equals 28%. On top of that, when Sevastopol fell, the RNG goddess rolled bad numbers for the Germans.

Well, I will be interested to hear what Tanaka has seen or done from his p.o.v. about this matter.

Thanks, Bill for the script view and your explanations.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 3/17/2021 11:02:21 AM >

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 7
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 10:51:34 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline 		I'm not smart enough to figure this all out.

"I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is" --- Forrest Gump

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Without Him, I could do nothing
Without Him, I'd surely fail
Without Him, I would be drifting
Like a ship without a sail

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Post #: 8
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 11:04:23 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

I'm not smart enough to figure this all out.

"I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is" --- Forrest Gump


Basically, it was a matter of throwing a bad dice roll on the Craps Table for Tanaka.

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 9
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 11:10:54 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline 		Craps is the Cocaine of gambling.

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 10
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 11:41:28 AM   
Dorky8

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 10/31/2015
Status: offline 		Craps best casino game

This never made sense to me but if you want to move Turkey to Axis Sealion. Not sure its worth it with US & SU mobilization moves. Turkey on Axis side a big deal tho.



; Axis land units in England resulting in a
; 45-55% increase in Turkish mobilization towards Axis:
{
#NAME= Sealion (Turkey->Axis)
#POPUP= <<TAG_44>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#LEVEL= 0
#COUNTRY_ID= 111
#TRIGGER= 10
#DATE= 1939/09/01
; 45-55% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [45,55] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Germany politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; Axis land 1 unit within 2 hexes of London OR
#CONDITION_POSITION= 87,37 [2,2] [1,1] [1] [0]
; Axis land 1 unit within 2 hexes of Manchester
#CONDITION_POSITION= 85,33 [2,2] [1,1] [1] [0]

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 11
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 3:12:52 PM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

I'm not smart enough to figure this all out.



Same here. Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that if playing as Germany and you really want Turkey as an ally, then you'd be better off playing the World War One iteration of this game.

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Post #: 12
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 5:15:56 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

I'm not smart enough to figure this all out.



Same here. Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that if playing as Germany and you really want Turkey as an ally, then you'd be better off playing the World War One iteration of this game.


That does make me laugh, but in all seriousness, do you think there's an issue that we should address here?

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Post #: 13
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 5:28:36 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline 		@BillyR --- On this issue, nah. Not for me. But I can only speak for myself.

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Without Him, I could do nothing
Without Him, I'd surely fail
Without Him, I would be drifting
Like a ship without a sail

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Post #: 14
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 6:54:43 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

Same here. Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that if playing as Germany and you really want Turkey as an ally, then you'd be better off playing the World War One iteration of this game.


Well, I can attest as a frequent SC-WW1 enthusiast, that having the Ottoman Empire as an ally is no walk in the park either!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 15
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 7:07:25 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

There are two scripts that can move Turkey towards the Axis that are related to Axis advances to, and the capture of, Sevastopol or other locations. I've pasted them below for reference.

It's probable that the first has already fired in your game, whereas the second one only has a one-off 50% chance of firing (as the Turks may well be indifferent to further advances).

If you are both investing in diplomacy with Turkey then the actual chance of the Axis moving Turkey further that way is the difference between Axis and Allied investments, bearing in mind that the US chits have more sway than anyone else's: 7% chance per chit per turn, as opposed to 5%.

So you might need to compare how many chits you both have invested, and by whom, to work out the real per turn chance of Turkey being swayed further by diplomacy.



; Axis land units 1 hex from Sevastopol resulting in a
; 5-10% increase in Turkish mobilization towards Axis
{
#NAME= Axis Advance On Sevastopol (Turkey->Axis)
#POPUP= <<TAG_45>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 111
#TRIGGER= 100
#DATE= 1939/09/01
; 5-10% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [5,10] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Germany politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; Axis has 1-2 units 1 hex from Sevastopol
#CONDITION_POSITION= 124,49 [1,1] [1,2] [1] [0]
}

; Axis forces capture Sevastopol resulting in a
; 10-20% increase in Turkish mobilization towards Axis
{
#NAME= Axis Advance To Sevastopol (Turkey->Axis)
#POPUP= <<TAG_46>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 0
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 111
#TRIGGER= 50
#DATE= 1939/09/01
; 10-20% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [10,20] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Germany politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; Axis has 1 unit in Sevastopol
#CONDITION_POSITION= 124,49 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
; Axis has 1 unit in Maikop
#CONDITION_POSITION= 130,49 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
; Axis has 1 unit in Grozny
#CONDITION_POSITION= 136,50 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
; Axis has 1 unit in Grozny Oilfield
#CONDITION_POSITION= 135,49 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
}


I believe all events have fired and I have put 5 chits into Turkey via Germany after and nothing...

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Post #: 16
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 7:13:31 PM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre


That does make me laugh, but in all seriousness, do you think there's an issue that we should address here?


Not really. After the humiliating beating and break-up Turkey took in the Great War I could see where it should be extremely difficult to coax them into another.

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Post #: 17
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 7:25:38 PM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor


quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

Same here. Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that if playing as Germany and you really want Turkey as an ally, then you'd be better off playing the World War One iteration of this game.


Well, I can attest as a frequent SC-WW1 enthusiast, that having the Ottoman Empire as an ally is no walk in the park either!





The Central Powers sure have great gams.

But being fettered to a 'turkey'is sure to put runs in your fishnet stockings.


_____________________________


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Post #: 18
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 7:27:30 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I believe all events have fired and I have put 5 chits into Turkey via Germany after and nothing...


Well, it seems when you finally took Sevastopol, you had a bad roll. There's a 50% chance the Turks didn't hit. When you got within 1 hex of Sevastopol with your Rumanians, there was the first hit. I saw Turkey jump to well over 55% pro-axis...so I put USA on the job by spending on MMP's on them...3 chits worth. The next turn, one more.

When you took the triggers on your push into the Caucasus, like Grozny for example, I noticed Turkey going up to near 83%. A year later when you finally took Sevastopol, you must of failed the RNG roll...so it stayed at 83%...

I still have the 4 USA chits in Turkey, which equals 28%.....so nullifies Germany's 5 chits at 25%....
At least, that is my understanding now, especially after reviewing the script and looking at my timeline notes of our match. Still..I would like confirmation that what I am surmising here is correct.

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 19
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 7:32:31 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

The Central Powers sure have great gams.

But being fettered to a 'turkey'is sure to put runs in your fishnet stockings.



tah haha! Apparently, I've turned into a meme artist instead of a gambit artist now.

...runs in the stockings indeedy........seeing that always did something to me in a favorable way.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 3/17/2021 8:06:04 PM >

(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 20
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 8:04:20 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I believe all events have fired and I have put 5 chits into Turkey via Germany after and nothing...


Well, it seems when you finally took Sevastopol, you had a bad roll. There's a 50% chance the Turks didn't hit. When you got within 1 hex of Sevastopol with your Rumanians, there was the first hit. I saw Turkey jump to well over 55% pro-axis...so I put USA on the job by spending on MMP's on them...3 chits worth. The next turn, one more.

When you took the triggers on your push into the Caucasus, like Grozny for example, I noticed Turkey going up to near 83%. A year later when you finally took Sevastopol, you must of failed the RNG roll...so it stayed at 83%...

I still have the 4 USA chits in Turkey, which equals 28%.....so nullifies Germany's 5 chits at 25%....
At least, that is my understanding now, especially after reviewing the script and looking at my timeline notes of our match. Still..I would like confirmation that what I am surmising here is correct.


Ahhh thanks this make more sense now...although I am surprised you are still spending points on it!

_____________________________


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Post #: 21
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 8:12:04 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I believe all events have fired and I have put 5 chits into Turkey via Germany after and nothing...


Well, it seems when you finally took Sevastopol, you had a bad roll. There's a 50% chance the Turks didn't hit. When you got within 1 hex of Sevastopol with your Rumanians, there was the first hit. I saw Turkey jump to well over 55% pro-axis...so I put USA on the job by spending on MMP's on them...3 chits worth. The next turn, one more.

When you took the triggers on your push into the Caucasus, like Grozny for example, I noticed Turkey going up to near 83%. A year later when you finally took Sevastopol, you must of failed the RNG roll...so it stayed at 83%...

I still have the 4 USA chits in Turkey, which equals 28%.....so nullifies Germany's 5 chits at 25%....
At least, that is my understanding now, especially after reviewing the script and looking at my timeline notes of our match. Still..I would like confirmation that what I am surmising here is correct.


Ahhh thanks this make more sense now...although I am surprised you are still spending points on it!


Ahh Grasshopper...I spent the points back in mid 1942....long term investment that is still paying come early 1945. lucky fortune cookie for me!

btw, everytime we have a match.....wild things always happen. Crazy fandangos and risky gambits. mysteries. skullduggeries. unknown unknowns..... haha, good times!

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 3/17/2021 8:14:28 PM >

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 22
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/17/2021 10:44:13 PM   
Bo Rearguard


Posts: 492
Joined: 4/7/2008
From: Basement of the Alamo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

The Central Powers sure have great gams.

But being fettered to a 'turkey'is sure to put runs in your fishnet stockings.



Not to mention what the turkey muck does to those fashionable high heels.


I've noticed the former German battlecruiser Goeben (Yavuz) is still present in the Turkish navy in SC2. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only naval unit the Turks have at their disposal at start. Those postwar years must have been tough.

_____________________________

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864

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Post #: 23
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/18/2021 1:40:43 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I believe all events have fired and I have put 5 chits into Turkey via Germany after and nothing...


Well, it seems when you finally took Sevastopol, you had a bad roll. There's a 50% chance the Turks didn't hit. When you got within 1 hex of Sevastopol with your Rumanians, there was the first hit. I saw Turkey jump to well over 55% pro-axis...so I put USA on the job by spending on MMP's on them...3 chits worth. The next turn, one more.

When you took the triggers on your push into the Caucasus, like Grozny for example, I noticed Turkey going up to near 83%. A year later when you finally took Sevastopol, you must of failed the RNG roll...so it stayed at 83%...

I still have the 4 USA chits in Turkey, which equals 28%.....so nullifies Germany's 5 chits at 25%....
At least, that is my understanding now, especially after reviewing the script and looking at my timeline notes of our match. Still..I would like confirmation that what I am surmising here is correct.


Ahhh thanks this make more sense now...although I am surprised you are still spending points on it!


Ahh Grasshopper...I spent the points back in mid 1942....long term investment that is still paying come early 1945. lucky fortune cookie for me!

btw, everytime we have a match.....wild things always happen. Crazy fandangos and risky gambits. mysteries. skullduggeries. unknown unknowns..... haha, good times!


Ah you can have it then haha time to refund my money!

_____________________________


(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 24
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/18/2021 4:03:06 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Ah you can have it then haha time to refund my money!


Fine. Good. Go ahead and refund your money! Turkey obviously wasn't interested in helping Germany administer their emerging slave empire in Central Asia anyway.

We have our own home brewed version............






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 3/18/2021 4:16:23 AM >

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 25
RE: Late Turkey Diplomacy Broken? - 3/18/2021 12:09:30 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline 		Antioch inside the Turkish border, is a must capture for my forces.

_____________________________

Without Him, I could do nothing
Without Him, I'd surely fail
Without Him, I would be drifting
Like a ship without a sail

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 26
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