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Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/24/2021 9:34:11 PM   
clamel

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/9/2019
Status: offline 		I read somewhere that if a ship with supply or fuel unloads to a place already almost filled, the surplus get wasted.

Based on that I wonder how this would turn out. It will work of course IRL, so probably in-game too. BUT better ask, since I can't find anything about it.

Tanker filled 4000 fuel set out to Island A (that has max 2000), then should go on to closeby Island B (max 1000) and then Island C (max 1000).
Can I set this Tanker to make this island hopping run with fuel without it dumps all on Island A and most right in the ocean ?

What should be the Set destination to work this out ?
Post #: 1
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/24/2021 9:52:54 PM   
WEXF

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 9/7/2020
Status: offline 		If I am reading you right you want to dump fuel into the ocean. I don't think that is possible. You can land at one base and unload there. If it is a small port and you don't dock you might not unload all of the fuel from the tanker in one turn. If you don't you can sail to another port and do the same thing. In order for the fuel to waste away at the bases, there is a formula that governs the wasting of fuel and supply that is dependent on the size of the port and I believe the airfield at the same base.
Here is the formula from another thread:

(C.1) Spoilage

Bases whose combined airfield and port levels amount to less than 9 can suffer spoilage of their supply (and fuel) stockpile.

Spoilage will occur if the following base thresholds are exceeded:

• Size 8 – above 197k supply (129k fuel)
• Size 7 – above 152k supply (99k fuel)
• Size 6 – above 113k supply (73k fuel)
• Size 5 – above 80k supply (51k fuel)
• Size 4 – above 53k supply (33k fuel)
• Size 3 – above 32k supply (19k fuel)
• Size 2 – above 17k supply (9k fuel)
• Size 1 – above 8k supply (3k fuel)


< Message edited by WEXF -- 3/24/2021 9:59:18 PM >

(in reply to clamel)
Post #: 2
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/24/2021 10:57:19 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Nothing, I repeat nothing, in a Gary Grigsby game is ever set in stone.

Everything is subject to randomization checks.

There is no guarantee that the entire overstock will be lost.

There is likely a die roll check before any spoilage occurs.

There are likely more die roll checks to determine what percentage of the overstock is spolied.

The only side that ever needs to worry about supply and fuel wastage is the Japanese side.

Playing Allies, just keep shipping more supply and fuel and eventually the base size will catch up with the overstock.

Worrying over spoilage is a complete and utter waste of time and effort.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 3
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/24/2021 11:57:43 PM   
clamel

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/9/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

If I am reading you right you want to dump fuel into the ocean. I don't think that is possible. You can land at one base and unload there. If it is a small port and you don't dock you might not unload all of the fuel from the tanker in one turn. If you don't you can sail to another port and do the same thing. In order for the fuel to waste away at the bases, there is a formula that governs the wasting of fuel and supply that is dependent on the size of the port and I believe the airfield at the same base.




Gosh, did I explained that bad.
No nothing in the ocean. I feared that was what might happen.

I like to divide that fuel on those islands I mentioned. But feared that the ship dumped all on the first island and not filled it up to capacity and then could go on to the next island and fill that up, and to the third.
That way the full load would be divided on the islands and NOTHING in the sea.


Hm, could the key be not to dock, so if I set destination first to this island A, then home port to the next island. Then of course I need to fiddle around when it gets home (Island B), so it can continue with the last drops of fuel to the final third island.

All I have seen in manuals and things are transport of all things from A to B. I was thinking on dropping things of on a "mailrun". Hope you get my drift this time around.


< Message edited by clamel -- 3/25/2021 12:02:53 AM >

(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 4
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 12:13:48 AM   
WEXF

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 9/7/2020
Status: offline 		I think I get it now. You have a tanker with a load of fuel that you want unloaded at 3 locations, each of which would exceed their maximum fuel allocation if they took the entire load and you would like to set one order that would do the entire job.
If that is the case, I don't think there is a way to do it.
Starting with base 1-you would have to order unloading of the fuel. How much is unloaded there would depend on a number of things-port size, ship size, docked or not, naval support and others.
If the ship started the day in the port and fully unloaded it would, depending on how you have the orders written, either start the return to its home port, or disband into the port it is is, or remain in the port it is in but not disband. If it started in the port and did not fully unload it would remain in the port and wait to continue unloading.
WEXF

(in reply to clamel)
Post #: 5
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 12:52:27 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Naval support does not affect tankers unloading fuel.

_____________________________


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Post #: 6
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 12:59:14 AM   
WEXF

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 9/7/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Naval support does not affect tankers unloading fuel.


Whoops, sorry about that.
WEXF

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 7
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 4:46:38 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		At small ports it will take along time for the tanker to unload any way. You can stop the unloading process and move the tanker to another port.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 8
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 3:15:11 PM   
clamel

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/9/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

At small ports it will take along time for the tanker to unload any way. You can stop the unloading process and move the tanker to another port.



This might be the answer I was looking for. I wasn't sure if I had to manual stop it and send it onwards or not.

I had in my mind this specific setup
When the TF with the tanker filling up fuel at present port I Set Destination to Island A. His new Set Home Port will be Island B. And of he go

With this I hoped that it will unload as much as it can to fill up Island A when it reach it, then by itself continue to that Island B, which is now it's home port. When it is on route I have to tinkle with it and Set Island B as his new Destination and then Island C as his Home Port. The Unload was the concern if it understood not to dump surplus in the sea before going to his Home Port.

This should make the ship move correct BUT the unloading will be the question.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 9
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 3:18:55 PM   
clamel

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/9/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WEXF

I think I get it now. You have a tanker with a load of fuel that you want unloaded at 3 locations, each of which would exceed their maximum fuel allocation if they took the entire load and you would like to set one order that would do the entire job.
If that is the case, I don't think there is a way to do it.
Starting with base 1-you would have to order unloading of the fuel. How much is unloaded there would depend on a number of things-port size, ship size, docked or not, naval support and others.
If the ship started the day in the port and fully unloaded it would, depending on how you have the orders written, either start the return to its home port, or disband into the port it is is, or remain in the port it is in but not disband. If it started in the port and did not fully unload it would remain in the port and wait to continue unloading.
WEXF



Correct. I have Unload, No disband but only Home Port set as Island B. So hopefully it just fills up Island A and moves on to Island B with the rest of the fuel.

(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 10
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 4:35:39 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		No, no, no. It doesn't work like that.

A human controlled task force will fully unload at the first port. It does not take into account local spoilage limits. Tinkering with home ports is just irrelevant.

You are setting yourself up for a considerable amount of micro management, which will not accomplish what you want to achieve. You cannot stop unloading in the middle of a phase so even when at the start of a turn, you manually stop unloading it is almost guaranteed that you will have already unloaded more fuel in the preceding unloading phases which exceeds the spoilage limits.

Waypoints are useful only for movement, not cargo unloading. The closest mechanism is to use the Auto Convoy system which runs without player micromanagement.

All this is covered in great detail in chapter 6 of the manual.

Alfred

(in reply to clamel)
Post #: 11
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 7:59:24 PM   
clamel

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/9/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No, no, no. It doesn't work like that.

A human controlled task force will fully unload at the first port. It does not take into account local spoilage limits. Tinkering with home ports is just irrelevant.

You are setting yourself up for a considerable amount of micro management, which will not accomplish what you want to achieve. You cannot stop unloading in the middle of a phase so even when at the start of a turn, you manually stop unloading it is almost guaranteed that you will have already unloaded more fuel in the preceding unloading phases which exceeds the spoilage limits.

Waypoints are useful only for movement, not cargo unloading. The closest mechanism is to use the Auto Convoy system which runs without player micromanagement.

All this is covered in great detail in chapter 6 of the manual.

Alfred


I get you. But my question surely wasn't found or answered in the Manual. Most advices have been, not everything is found in the Manual.
Closest thing I came was 6.3.3.3.1 NORMAL UNLOADING

I do think it is like you say, but I put the question up in this forum to see if gamers with a lot more hours under the belt could have encountered something like this. In real life it is a very common thing to dump parts of the load in one port then go on to the next.

It came very natural to ask I think. Believe you me that I have searched high and low on my specific question, both in Manuals, Videos on YT and in this forum. Found nothing so far. hence the question.

Yes, it take micromanagement, but this game surely is a gigantic micromanagement orgy in my eyes. That is why the game is great.

So a big thanks for the help.

< Message edited by clamel -- 3/25/2021 8:00:56 PM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 12
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 8:26:15 PM   
WEXF

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 9/7/2020
Status: offline
"In real life it is a very common thing to dump parts of the load in one port then go on to the next."

If you think of the above from the perspective of could it be done in a single day? Picture the tanker arriving, then docking, then unloading. It takes time. In the game you can accomplish what you want but not all in a single day. You will be able to do it in several days but you won't be able to control exactly how much is unloaded in each day in each port. That will vary for many reasons.
In WITP-AE the 12 hour clocks are always ticking.
I'm not a very experienced player but I am finding it very helpful to picture what is actually happening with a clock in the background.
WEXF


(in reply to clamel)
Post #: 13
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 11:24:50 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		If you want a small port to refuel ships to and from ConUS to Australia, you can either unload fuel at the port, have a tanker/oiler disbanded at the port, and/or an oiler with or without one or more tankers there for the oiler to get fuel from. The oilers can also be in a TF to refuel ships at points in the ocean.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to WEXF)
Post #: 14
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/25/2021 11:28:44 PM   
clamel

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/9/2019
Status: offline 		Really good advices for a newbie. I will take them to heart. Once more thanks mates.
I learned a lot but have miles of learning yet.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 15
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/26/2021 8:35:10 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Easiest to get TK convoys from West Coast USA to Australia is to use waypoints (far away from threats) and have AO within convoy to refuel other ships.

You can even adjust refueling at waypoints to e.g. Minimum refuel (I myself use Tactical refuel, to have bit of reserve for emergencies).

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 3/26/2021 8:36:35 AM >

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to clamel)
Post #: 16
RE: Tanker dumping fuel ? - 3/27/2021 4:09:24 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Yes, tactical refuel because if the ships run out of fuel, they tend move move slowly while acquiring damage.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 17
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