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GE rail repair discussion - 3/29/2021 12:32:51 PM   
Nix77

 

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Rail repair in WitE2 is different from it's predecessor since the logistics system has changed so much, lets start an open discussion about German rail repair strategies! And why not share some Soviet depot secrets too!

Which would be your preferred lines of advance on German T1, and which are the key depot candidate cities and towns to reach early?

quote:

FBD4(AGN): Raseiniai, Jelgava, Riga? Or just have Riga act as a main import port in the north... is that enough for AGN in the beginning? Is it worth to build depots south of Riga? You can get Raseiniai online on T2, but is it really useful? Should FBD4 perhaps concentrate on getting the Vilnius - Pskov double rail line online to allow two FBDs operate in AGS area?


quote:

FBD2 (AGC): This FBD can be diverted to either northern approach (Vilnius-Daugavapils), or handle Vilnius-Minsk supply to allow two FBD in south?


quote:

FBD3 (AGC): Brest-Litovsk => Kowel => Rovno => Zhitomir? Or maybe double with FBD1 toward Vinnitsa? Or even more south if sending FBD1 to Romania is still a thing? :D


quote:

FBD1 (AGS): Lvov-Proskurov-Vinnitsa => link with Romanian FBD toward Odessa? Can you still send this south to Romania to get quickly to Odessa?


These are just my random musings, and are based on WitE1 experience. FBD depot boost makes everything probably even more complicated? Also I'm not sure how effectively port supply works, take Riga for example. You can probably boost it to work on quite high capacity with AGN HQ stationed there?

I liked to micromanage (indirectly) my support RR battalions in WitE1, and it seems to work still! How risky would it be to remove RAD/OT battalions from FBDs to act as pin-point repair units on Corps/Army HQs? I noticed that I could leave only 3 road construction battalions for FBD4, and it could still operate at full efficiency with some repair margin left at RRV5 (RRV4 is still 1MP/hex). Doing this I received three support battalions that each repair 1 hex per turn. Problem here is that they can't be returned to the FBD which makes it vulnerable to attrition and probably bad weather later on in the campaign.

Depot placement is a big mystery for me still since I haven't had time to play around with that yet. You probably don't want to spend too many APs spitting these out, but at least for now it's still really difficult for me to figure the exact spacing and capacity of the depots that I should have. AI assist places "up to 10 depots" with a max cost of 5AP, that seems like AI depot assist could be even more efficient than placing them manually?



< Message edited by Nix77 -- 3/29/2021 12:35:25 PM >
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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 3/29/2021 6:50:29 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Some general comments and ruminations.

1. Yes the Axis support RR battalions (the RAR Labor units) still work independently and can be 'gamed' to repair where you wish them to. Good examples are readily available in my current AAR. I do not bring it out explicitly but notice 18th Army HQ in the Baltics and the Hungarian VIII Corps in the south.

2. I do not tend to use the Super Depot (HQ + non-moving FBD) because I would rather those FBDs keep moving and converting rails.

3. An FBD that is NOT repairing a double rail line is potentially being wasted.

4. You can strip an FBD down to five construction units and not have more than a single hex repair loss (if you keep them in good supply and assign them to a local HQ). This frees up an additional three RAR Labor units for the Axis.

5. ALWAYS keep Army and AG HQs on rail depots - preferably in level 2 railyards or better.

6. The new logistics model is an art form - there really is no true and tried science to it. You will find that all of the playtesters have their own ways of doing things and they all kinda work well.

But the two true facts are:

1. Axis had better protect railyards such as Minsk with fighter and/or flak because these large railyards are just begging the VVS to bomb.

2. No matter what you do as the Axis the rain and blizzard weather will break your logistics in 41.


(in reply to Nix77)
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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/8/2021 2:11:42 PM   
dudefan

 

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"You can strip an FBD down to five construction units and not have more than a single hex repair loss (if you keep them in good supply and assign them to a local HQ). This frees up an additional three RAR Labor units for the Axis."

5 normal construction units or rail repair/O.T. units?

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/8/2021 2:56:25 PM   
Nix77

 

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OT/RAD units, they're the ones that do the passive repair. Pulling them out makes the FBD a bit too weak I've noticed after all. They lose RRV too fast when repairing if they have too few support units, and you cant reattach them.

Better to just leave them there, unless you want to use one FBD strictly for depot boosting.

You can transfer a couple of RAD units from Norway if you have TB control on.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/8/2021 3:02:52 PM   
dudefan

 

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Oh no. I made a big mistake then. I pulled out nearly all rail repair units out of the fbds. Damn. A lost case?


That's really bad. I am in turn 24 already

< Message edited by dudefan -- 4/8/2021 3:06:41 PM >

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/8/2021 3:05:51 PM   
loki100


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you can't return them, so in that sense yes. Auto-repair is not a total disaster for a breadth repair strategy (if you are careful about where they are assigned) but it won't chain for depth, ie each one will only repair a hex that was connected to the existing rail net

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/8/2021 3:08:15 PM   
dudefan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

you can't return them, so in that sense yes. Auto-repair is not a total disaster for a breadth repair strategy (if you are careful about where they are assigned) but it won't chain for depth, ie each one will only repair a hex that was connected to the existing rail net


Ok. Thank you. Very annoying that I can't reassign them. What is the reason this is not possible? Too gamey?

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/8/2021 4:50:53 PM   
loki100


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not sure to be honest, breaking out the component parts of a rail repair HQ has always been a one way option going back to WiTE1, so it maybe simply a coding constraint or reflect a wider design view

I've done it a few times in WiTW, you can sometimes manage to get quite depleted allied rail repair formations and then it maybe better to have 3-4 well fitted out auto-repair formations rather than the command moving painfully slowly

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/8/2021 7:19:36 PM   
Jajusha


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I belive the answer is "it depends",

Will you go for the classic move and blast your panzers through Pskov, or will you be taking the north hook to clear the Talinn port as fast as possible?

In my limited experience,
If you are charging Pskov, the Riga Port will supply your spreadhead while both your AGN and AGC FDBrepair the Kaunas Vilnus double Rail. AGC will then keep going to Minsk, while AGN will head to PSKOV. I usually use the Totenkopf division to flip the hexes north of the Vilnus junction so that the 16th army can move faster. Alot of the rail will be taken intact. You'll have the Pskov depot up and running in no time, and the capacity will do just fine for the full AGN

If instead you prefer to fake the Pskov move and charge north at the last moment then you will really need to connect the rail to Riga and push it to Tallinn. The rail capacity will be just enough to keep the panzer group + 18th army supplied while 16th army forces it to Pskov.






Attachment (1)

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/12/2021 7:18:49 AM   
Jango32

 

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Question about section 7.2.5 from the manual. In there, it is stated that yellow hexes (with railway mapmode on) are going to be fully functional next turn along with the orange ones.

At the start of turn 2 though, almost none of the yellow hexes repaired. What am I missing?

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/12/2021 7:37:55 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jango32

Question about section 7.2.5 from the manual. In there, it is stated that yellow hexes (with railway mapmode on) are going to be fully functional next turn along with the orange ones.

At the start of turn 2 though, almost none of the yellow hexes repaired. What am I missing?


yellow means it is intact but not connected to your main rail net (ie by rail/port to a NSS), for eg:




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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/12/2021 7:41:16 AM   
Jango32

 

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Ah, that makes sense. Thank you Loki for the quick reply.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/14/2021 8:06:38 PM   
Richard III


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Are Rail Repair units automated, if so how to set that ?

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“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/14/2021 8:27:43 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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Just FYI

You can repair with 2 FBD's(or more) on the same track. For instane, if you have all clear terrain hexes 1 FBD can repair 8 hexes. You could continue that repair with a 2nd FBD if desired to do so to repair even more hexes.

Just throwing this out there.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/14/2021 8:28:12 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Are Rail Repair units automated, if so how to set that ?


Negative, not automated.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/14/2021 8:34:37 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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You also need to consider adding Lvl 2 rail yards to your converted track too.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/20/2021 1:04:01 AM   
bairdlander2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Are Rail Repair units automated, if so how to set that ?


Negative, not automated.

?? I thought RAD support units attached to Hq's automatically go out and repair,forward.

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Post #: 17
RE: GE rail repair discussion - 4/20/2021 1:30:57 AM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander2


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Are Rail Repair units automated, if so how to set that ?


Negative, not automated.

?? I thought RAD support units attached to Hq's automatically go out and repair,forward.


He's talking about the FBD's.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 5/6/2021 10:44:43 PM   
jallison86


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Hopping onto this thread for a total newb question about rail repair. I'm playing through Road to Leningrad as the Axis against the AI. I made good progress initially, but now my units are bogging down due to poor supply. Looking at rail damage, it's clear why: may rail net is a disaster! Heavily damaged. Per the rules in 21.6.1 and 22.6.1, I got the impression that rail repairs would happen automatically as repair units spawned from HQs. But I'm not seeing this happening. Seems like I'm missing some obvious step, but I'm not sure what. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks!

- Jeff

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 5/6/2021 11:19:33 PM   
carlkay58

 

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There are two RAD Labor Units assigned to your Army Group North HQ in that scenario. They will only repair two hexes per turn that are adjacent to other repaired rails. You will capture rail in the Baltics that you will be able to use without repair but it is random and only in locations where you did not fight a battle.

The key that you are missing is the FBD unit. This is a unit that you control that will repair rail hexes where you move it to and tell it to repair. Find that unit and use it! When you select the unit it will highlight all rail hexes within its movement capability that are not repaired. If you move it to one of those hexes and press the 'r' key it will repair the hex. You can then move it again and repair, etc. The usual method is to move it to the rail line that you wish repaired and move it along the rail while repairing the hexes that require repair.

You can then either create depots along the repaired rail yourself or activate the AI Depot button and let the AI figure out where to place your depots.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 5/6/2021 11:44:09 PM   
neuromancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jallison86
Hopping onto this thread for a total newb question about rail repair. I'm playing through Road to Leningrad as the Axis against the AI. I made good progress initially, but now my units are bogging down due to poor supply. Looking at rail damage, it's clear why: may rail net is a disaster! Heavily damaged. Per the rules in 21.6.1 and 22.6.1, I got the impression that rail repairs would happen automatically as repair units spawned from HQs. But I'm not seeing this happening. Seems like I'm missing some obvious step, but I'm not sure what. Any advice appreciated.


I made this mistake in my early games too, until I finally figured it out.

There is automatic repair, but in that scenario it is just 2 units attached to either OKH or AGN. The problem is that because of the wide control area those two units will hop all over the map in what is seemingly random repairs. The only limitations on where they will go is that it must be German held terrotiry at the beginning of the turn, and a broken rail hex next to a functional rail hex.

One important note: I said HEX. The rail they are repairing does not have to actually be connected to the functional rail in the next hex. I discovered this by accident when they decided to repair the end of a dead end track simply because there was another rail line in the next hex over.
I don't know if this is as designed, or a bug.

You also have an FBD unit. It is a really useful rail repair unit as it is directly under your control and it can repair several hexes in one turn. It can only repair lines that are currently in German held territory (could be captured this turn, but entering the hex will cost more MP), and the rail must be connected to an undamaged line, or a line that was repaired this turn (1 damage). I don't know if it can work on the next hex over even if not directly connected as I've never wanted to.

Here is the thing I had a problem finding, with the FBD selected, look to the unit panel on the right side of the screen. There is an entry in the second column labeled RRC, if it is yellow and has a number it means you can repair the rail in that hex for that many MPs (the Rumanian FBD usually costs 3 MP to fix a hex, while the German ones almost always cost 1 MP). Click on that to repair the rail in that hex, then move on to the next hex to be repaired. You can also just use the 'r' hotkey to make it repair.

If you don't have the FBS selected, or if you do but it can't repair for whatever reason, the 'r' key will bring up the rail damage overlay.

As carlkay said, with the FBD selected, it will highlight the rail hexes that need to be repaired within move range. Not all those hexes CAN be repaired as some will be connected only to other broken track. But just move from good track to broken track and repair as you go and you'll be fine. You are only limited by the FBD's MP, and it does have to pay MP to both move and repair, but fixing 5 or 6 hexes a turn isn't uncommon.

Remember, you can go from good track to broken track, or a track that was repaired this turn to a broken track. That includes tracks that were repaired by the KRAD units at the start of the turn. If you turn on the rail damage overlay ('r' key) you can see the state of the rail network. Green is good track that is connected to the network and probably being used by trains, yellow is good track that is isolated from the network, orange is repaired track (will be yellow or green next turn), and red is broken track.

As suggested above, use the FBD on double track rail (thicker black and white dashed line) over a single track when possible, although there may be times you want to make short jaunts in other directions. You also may have no choice as the Soviet rail network is a mess at the best of times and double track isn't always available where you need it.

I mentioned the 2 automatic units before. They are the KRAD Labor Detachments. You can make them more useful by transferring them to a corps HQ (same way as any other support unit), use a corps HQ with no combat units; I typically use L corps in Road to Leningrad, but it doesn't matter which one, just make sure it doesn't have any combat support units either as that would be a waste. Maybe some AA, but I don't even bother with that.

You could use two HQs (1 for each KRAD), but you usually can't spare more than one. In the campaign probably one per AG is about the most you could spare.

You can make this a rail repair unit and send it where you want. The two KRAD units will - at the start of each turn - appear on a rail hex that can be repaired, within 5 hexes of the HQ. By using the 5 hex range and the restrictions on what can be repaired, you can guide the construction to a large extent. They prefer to repair lines that are going towards depots, but will sometimes go off on useless lines, so positioning the HQ carefully is necessary to keep them properly on task.

With a little luck and careful positioning you can get a rail line all the way from Tilsit to Riga to Parnu to Tallinn by the end of the scenario, leaving your FBD to focus on the double line from Ebenrode to Vulnius to Pskov and further North.



< Message edited by neuromancer -- 5/7/2021 12:01:15 AM >

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 5/7/2021 3:47:46 PM   
jallison86


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Thanks for the responses, very helpful. May be too late to save this game, but the scenario's short enough to try again.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 5/7/2021 7:11:32 PM   
neuromancer


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I'm on my 11th try with that scenario.
Until you get the hang of the game, expect to start over a lot.
Hopefully you are a faster learner than me.

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RE: GE rail repair discussion - 5/7/2021 8:50:47 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Looking at my playtesting notes, I have played the Road to Leningrad a total of 238 times. It is a great scenario that plays in one day for me and is also great on testing just about all game features so you can test results of tweaks. Of course I can practically play it in my sleep (and have occasionally done so in dreams). I also note that I have not played the scenario is almost four months but I have not noted any withdrawal effects.

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