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Type 3 IJN mine - 7/21/2020 5:44:04 PM   
s2tanker


Posts: 599
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Has anyone been able to deploy these? I've only seen surface ships laying the Type 4 and Type 93. I don't see upgrades with that mine type as well.

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Post #: 1
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 7/21/2020 6:08:07 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		That's an airborne mine. Deployed IIRC only by capable JNB (two engine types). Can only be deployed at enemy bases by using the mine option of the city attack, and a message displays that they were dropped to everyone. Don't ask me why.

_____________________________

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(in reply to s2tanker)
Post #: 2
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 7/21/2020 10:29:34 PM   
s2tanker


Posts: 599
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Thanks. Interesting. I was unaware that Japan had that capability - at least widespread.

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Post #: 3
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/22/2021 4:29:12 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: s2tanker

Thanks. Interesting. I was unaware that Japan had that capability - at least widespread.

News to me, too, and I cannot remember to have seen about that in the manual. Is this function available from the start of the war?

Fred


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Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 4
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/22/2021 4:43:43 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Two threads about the same mine, here and

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4985399&mpage=1�

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 3/22/2021 4:44:54 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/22/2021 7:15:00 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

Is this function available from the start of the war?


Negative, the mine starts production 12/42.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 6
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/22/2021 8:31:27 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Is this function available from the start of the war?


Negative, the mine starts production 12/42.


OK, thank you. What about the allied side?

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 7
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/23/2021 10:02:05 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

What about the allied side?


Don't know, haven't played the Allies as yet.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 8
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/23/2021 10:22:40 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		For the Allied side go into your Intelligence screen and press button on the bottom right. It'll list all your devices and you have to search for mines and know which are airborne.

How I did it for Japan.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 9
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/25/2021 10:26:25 AM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


.....

OK, thank you. What about the allied side?

Fred



from a combat report :
quote:

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29-25 Superfort laying Mk 13 Mine from 8000 feet *
23 x B-29-25 Superfort laying Mk 13 Mine from 6000 feet *

CAP engaged:



Mk 13 mine , 115 build rate starting from 12/42.
If it is the only airdrop-capable mine, I do not know, but the british Liberator II's use it as well.

Once read that air mining operations can only be done starting from 12/42. My current PBEM hasn't reached that far yet, no way to check.

Edit:

Additionally: The Mark 25 and Mark 26 air dropped mines were deployed in large numbers by the allies as well, but they are somehow missing from the game. Over half the mines used in operation Starvation were Mark 25's, a significant portion of the others were Mark 26's.
a site about different U.S. mines

< Message edited by tolsdorff -- 3/25/2021 11:02:46 AM >

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 10
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/25/2021 12:35:44 PM   
Leandros


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Status: offline
Thank you!

Fred
-----

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 11
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/25/2021 2:38:26 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Once read that air mining operations can only be done starting from 12/42. My current PBEM hasn't reached that far yet, no way to check.


Have checked around a little but cannot find any info on how many mines the various a/c types carry. Any idea on that?

Fred
-----




_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 12
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/25/2021 5:00:53 PM   
tolsdorff

 

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Joined: 12/12/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

Have checked around a little but cannot find any info on how many mines the various a/c types carry. Any idea on that?

Fred
-----



IRL :
quote:

....Avenger and Ventura aircraft could carry a single mine and in 1944 Avengers closed Palau harbor by mining the entrances. They then sank all 32 ships in the harbor with conventional bombs and torpedoes. A total of approximately 100 ships were sunk or badly damaged in the Pacific during the war by mines laid by Navy aircraft.

By 1945, the Army Air Force was devoting considerable resources to the mining role, with 80 to 100 B-29s based at Tinian being used to mine the home waters around Japan. These B-29s could carry seven 2,000 lbs. (907 kg). or twelve 1,000 lbs. (454 kg) mines. "Operation Starvation" started in March 1945 and continued until early August with 4,900 magnetic, 3,500 acoustic, 2,900 pressure and 700 low-frequency mines being laid. These mines sank 294 ships outright, damaged another 137 beyond repair and damaged a further 239 that could be repaired. In cargo tonnage, the total was 1.4 million tons lost or damaged which was about 75% of the shipping available in March 1945....


In game, i have almost 0 knowledge.

I did do 1 experiment:

I had 22 liberator II's laying mines at a port, of which 1 turn later, there were 21 mines left.

So I wildly guess, not taking any other factors into consideration, 1 mine per airplane for that plane type. Perhaps Alfred knows more.

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 13
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/25/2021 6:02:13 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Size of airfield and range to target are factors which modify the main attribute. Aircraft load capacity and mine load cost are the core attributes.

Alfred

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 14
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/25/2021 7:32:12 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Size of airfield and range to target are factors which modify the main attribute. Aircraft load capacity and mine load cost are the core attributes.

Alfred



Ok, but how do aerial mines compare to bomb loads, are they somewhat similar?

Fred

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 15
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/25/2021 11:50:53 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Size of airfield and range to target are factors which modify the main attribute. Aircraft load capacity and mine load cost are the core attributes.

Alfred



Ok, but how do aerial mines compare to bomb loads, are they somewhat similar?

Fred


Maybe use the "cargo load" capability of the aircraft.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 16
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/26/2021 3:48:35 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Size of airfield and range to target are factors which modify the main attribute. Aircraft load capacity and mine load cost are the core attributes.

Alfred



Ok, but how do aerial mines compare to bomb loads, are they somewhat similar?

Fred


Maybe use the "cargo load" capability of the aircraft.

Why would they NOT be the exactly the same as the bomb load capacity? AFAIK the game does not make any abstractions for bomb bay size.

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Post #: 17
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/26/2021 10:22:08 PM   
Leandros


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Removed

< Message edited by Leandros -- 3/26/2021 10:29:36 PM >

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 18
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/26/2021 10:25:58 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Why would they NOT be the exactly the same as the bomb load capacity? AFAIK the game does not make any abstractions for bomb bay size.


That is not unreasonable (except maybe for size), but what I am after is to know the number of mines dropped whether with full or reduced load, simply to keep track on what is in stock or not.

Also the size of the airfield needed. I have found that size 7 is OK, but 5 is not. I haven't been able to "check 6".

What about dropping altitude and pilot proficiency - does it influence on accuracy? Night-drops? Mark 13 is a free-fall mine.

What about own ships and these mines?

I cannot remember to have seen any of these questions mentioned in the manual. Correct me if I am wrong.

Fred
----



_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 19
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/27/2021 12:02:05 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Been playing this damned game came out and never, EVER knew the Japanese could drop mines! Learn something every day...


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Post #: 20
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/27/2021 7:49:30 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Why would they NOT be the exactly the same as the bomb load capacity? AFAIK the game does not make any abstractions for bomb bay size.


That is not unreasonable (except maybe for size), but what I am after is to know the number of mines dropped whether with full or reduced load, simply to keep track on what is in stock or not.

Also the size of the airfield needed. I have found that size 7 is OK, but 5 is not. I haven't been able to "check 6".

What about dropping altitude and pilot proficiency - does it influence on accuracy? Night-drops? Mark 13 is a free-fall mine.

What about own ships and these mines?

I cannot remember to have seen any of these questions mentioned in the manual. Correct me if I am wrong.

Fred
----



When dropping mines I don't think there were many instances where you had to hit a narrow patch of water - you just mine the whole big bay. Accuracy is pretty irrelevant then - you have to rely on the enemy ships in accurately locating them the hard way.
The game has an attack profile that always has the plane go to drop altitude, like it does for torpedoes, so don't worry about altitude. The mines should be handled the same way as ship-laid mines vis-à-vis your own ships.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 21
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/27/2021 8:37:51 AM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Been playing this damned game came out and never, EVER knew the Japanese could drop mines! Learn something every day...



Me, neither, but I got suspicious when my minesweepers started finding mines in patrolled ports without having observed any enemy ships. Nor did my nightly air patrols.

So, how to counter nightly enemy air mining - only with nightly fighter sweeps, I suppose - and frequent minesweeping?

Fred
----

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 22
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/27/2021 11:09:09 AM   
tolsdorff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

Me, neither, but I got suspicious when my minesweepers started finding mines in patrolled ports without having observed any enemy ships. Nor did my nightly air patrols.

So, how to counter nightly enemy air mining - only with nightly fighter sweeps, I suppose - and frequent minesweeping?

Fred
----


Frequent minesweeping always helps. As allies, as you are probably aware of, you get so many ships capable of minesweeping that all ports can be covered with ease.

As mentioned in other posts, you apparently always get a message when and where the enemy airdrops mines. So at least, you always know where to sweep.


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Post #: 23
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/27/2021 12:54:12 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

As mentioned in other posts, you apparently always get a message when and where the enemy airdrops mines. So at least, you always know where to sweep.


I cannot say I have noted any such messages. I may have overseen them or I am mistaken in that my opponent is air mining.

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 24
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/28/2021 9:01:00 PM   
Leandros


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Oh, yes - there i was notified on own aerial minelaying - but no specification on number of mines dropped! I wonder, is the opposition notified, too? I haven't seen any such.

Fred

< Message edited by Leandros -- 3/28/2021 9:02:47 PM >

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 25
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/29/2021 6:08:56 AM   
tolsdorff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


Oh, yes - there i was notified on own aerial minelaying - but no specification on number of mines dropped! I wonder, is the opposition notified, too? I haven't seen any such.

Fred


Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 26
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/29/2021 3:54:07 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?


Thank you, I also noted that enemy minesweepers immediately started sweeping after I had dropped some mines. Most should be cleared up, then.

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 27
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/29/2021 5:02:56 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?


Thank you, I also noted that enemy minesweepers immediately started sweeping after I had dropped some mines. Most should be cleared up, then.

Fred



That does not seem very effective then.

Throughout the years, my overall impression of aerial mining, mostly from this forum, from people describing their experience with regard to aerial mining, isn't really positive. No references, just a general impression that stuck. I therefor never really bothered with them.
Perhaps it is nothing more than an exercise in futility, akin to the Japanese midget subs.


(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 28
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/29/2021 5:43:09 PM   
Leandros


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Well, he must have minesweepers available......The thing is, I suppose, to be persistent and to concentrate ones efforts.

Fred
-----

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 29
RE: Type 3 IJN mine - 3/29/2021 7:06:49 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		If you can drop the mines and then have a naval air attack in the same area . . .

It is a denial weapon. Many of the mines ended up on mud flats, others were observed being dropped, and the aircraft may have been seen/heard as well.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 3/29/2021 7:08:51 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Leandros)
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