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RE: Week 11 - 3/5/2021 9:37:13 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MAS

Regarding the AGN screenshot:

1) the 'blue' division's rating of 1=1 is obviously weak for a new, fresh division. Is it shown that way because it's onboard a train?

2) presumably you have converted the double track to Luga, and established a priority 4 depot there. Given the direction of your schwerpunkt (PzGrp 4), I'm surprised at the single track conversion you appear to be conducting 2 hexes NE of Luga. I would have thought you'd continue converting the double track more directly behind PzGrp 4, or left the FBD at Luga for a 'super-depot'. What am I missing?

3) the motorized division 2 hexes SW of Leningrad shows 6=4. Is it that weak due to high fatigue, low supply, low CPP? That spot looks very vulnerable to a Soviet counter-attack from just the adjacent 10 and 11 stacks, with the unknown tank division 2 hexes east possibly able to exploit and re-occupy the hex. Given how retreating units in WITE2 seem to take high casualties, would it have been better to leave another one of your exploiting divisions (perhaps the 7=12 motorized xx to the NW) in that hex as well?

Maybe you have a cunning plan... :-) BTW, I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just jealous you have the game and I have to wait 3 weeks! Thanks for your excellent AARs and patience with my many annoying questions.


1) Yes, thats because its boarded on train

2) That double track is blocked by Soviets so I converted also the single one to Novgorod in the meantime. I am expecting the front lines won't move much there so depot in Novgorod will help to reduce trucks needed for supplying 16. Army.

3) Yes it is weak probably due to the high fatigue(90) but still have 45 CPP. That 7=12 MD is on reserve. I want Soviets prevent to break into the pocket that will also result in cutting off some of my mobile units. Having them to fight through 2 hexes should do the job, that unit is basically scapegoat.

(in reply to MAS)
Post #: 91
RE: Week 11 - 3/5/2021 10:01:35 PM   
MAS

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/25/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo


quote:

ORIGINAL: MAS

Regarding the AGN screenshot:

1) the 'blue' division's rating of 1=1 is obviously weak for a new, fresh division. Is it shown that way because it's onboard a train?

2) presumably you have converted the double track to Luga, and established a priority 4 depot there. Given the direction of your schwerpunkt (PzGrp 4), I'm surprised at the single track conversion you appear to be conducting 2 hexes NE of Luga. I would have thought you'd continue converting the double track more directly behind PzGrp 4, or left the FBD at Luga for a 'super-depot'. What am I missing?

3) the motorized division 2 hexes SW of Leningrad shows 6=4. Is it that weak due to high fatigue, low supply, low CPP? That spot looks very vulnerable to a Soviet counter-attack from just the adjacent 10 and 11 stacks, with the unknown tank division 2 hexes east possibly able to exploit and re-occupy the hex. Given how retreating units in WITE2 seem to take high casualties, would it have been better to leave another one of your exploiting divisions (perhaps the 7=12 motorized xx to the NW) in that hex as well?

Maybe you have a cunning plan... :-) BTW, I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just jealous you have the game and I have to wait 3 weeks! Thanks for your excellent AARs and patience with my many annoying questions.


1) Yes, thats because its boarded on train

2) That double track is blocked by Soviets so I converted also the single one to Novgorod in the meantime. I am expecting the front lines won't move much there so depot in Novgorod will help to reduce trucks needed for supplying 16. Army.

3) Yes it is weak probably due to the high fatigue(90) but still have 45 CPP. That 7=12 MD is on reserve. I want Soviets prevent to break into the pocket that will also result in cutting off some of my mobile units. Having them to fight through 2 hexes should do the job, that unit is basically scapegoat.


Ah, that explains it. It'll be interesting to see the results of the battle, assuming Gloriousruse attacks there. Hopefully either Gloriousruse or you can screenshot the battle results for us. Thanks.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 92
Week 12 - 3/8/2021 7:30:28 AM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Turn 12, 7.9.1941

With September's weather looking more promising than August, as a high pressure front hangs on over the Eastern front, bigger offensive operations will be renewed.

AGN

18th Army eliminated the small pocket and 4th Panzer Group has been redeployed north of Novgorod with the aim to cut land connection to Leningrad in upcoming weeks.




AGC

This week's main undertaking was the combined operation by 2nd and 3rd Panzer Group with the goal to encircle large enemy forces between Vyazma and Orel. My estimation is that is 20 divisions encircled.

From intercepted enemy transmissions it is clear that enemy have been considering retreat but in Stavka the opinion prevailed that the Germans would continue their direct thrust to Moscow. However, after all those Soviet counterattacks I could not leave such a strong force in my flank. Some similarities with history come to mind. Guderian is not always right and you can't ignore strong enemy forces capable of offensive operations in your flank.




AGS

1st Panzer Group is outflanking Stalino. From west are incoming two fresh formations(2nd and 5th Panzer Division) to assist this most weakened panzer group. Stalingrad is out of reach but I have hopes to get Rostov at least.

It turned out that Zaporozhye was defended with only one division and Romanians had no problem to deal with it.



11th Army made decent progress into Crimea. I have started to hoard siege artillery and naval air groups for the upcoming siege of Sevastopol. To support it, 11th Army was already set to assault status a few weeks ago.



(in reply to MAS)
Post #: 93
RE: Week 11 - 3/9/2021 3:48:16 PM   
ranknfile

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/9/2021
From: New Orleans
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MAS

... Thanks for your excellent AARs and patience with my many annoying questions.



I for one appreciate your questions, and don't find them annoying in the least.


(in reply to MAS)
Post #: 94
RE: Week 11 - 3/9/2021 10:11:40 PM   
MAS

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/25/2015
Status: offline 		thanks ranknfile!

(in reply to ranknfile)
Post #: 95
Week 13 - 3/11/2021 3:10:31 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Turn 13, 14.9.1941

It came not as a surprise that Soviets were able to break the pocket. 20th Panzer Division routed halfway back to Germany. This shows the main difference between the WiTE2 and WiTE1 combat engine. This outcome was impossible in #1 but happened here as the front line combat elements were badly weakened.



And 1st Panzer Group suffered again from counterattacks. Enemy managed to push back two stacks and rout the Slovaks.



I have been over optimistic and the high pressure front hanging over east for last two weeks has now disappeared. Autumn and rains are coming. From now on I will try to be careful to not find myself in a bad position as the weather turns. Freeing any encircled units in heavy mud can turn out to be impossible.


AGN

Only few hexes have been gained in north but if enemy fails to fall back another ten or so units could end in pocket.




AGC

Troops in central sector secured the pocket more tightly.

Guderian's panzers flipped few hexes and are now threatening Moscow from south. I could have gained few more hexes but decided to not take any risks.




AGS

Not much happening in south. Kharkov fortress have been isolated and 1st Panzer Group is resting again.



Very good progress in Crimea. Romanians will deal with Kerch and remaining Soviet forces. Task for 11th Army is unambiguous, Sevastopol! Naval patrol groups are positioned to cut off the port from sea.


(in reply to MAS)
Post #: 96
Week 14 - 3/13/2021 5:16:54 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Turn 14, 21.9.1941

So rain is here again and this is probably the definitive end of summer campaign, though I don't plan to completely cease all offensive operations yet.

The pocket held but during a series of Soviet attacks 10th and 18th Panzer Division have been routed.

In south similar fate met the two Hungarian motorized brigades.

You may have noticed lot of cavalry divisions trying to put my units under ZOC or cut off not only mobile units but also infantry units. However I believe this is mistake. Those cavalry formations are very weak(I already mentioned this previously) and in return I try to attack them with deliberate attacks as much as possible even though a hasty attack would have been more than enough if all I wanted to do was to make them retreat. As a result, lot of them shatters. I have already destroyed 15 of them.

Nothing interesting has happened in the center sector during my movement. I have largely reduced the pocket and relieved units that Soviets cut off.




AGN

Soviets pulled out most of the units from the small salient with huge units concentration therefore I continued in my original aim to cut off Leningrad's land connection. Only two more hexes to achieve it.




AGS

1st Panzer Group conducted probably the last big offensive operation in south for this year. The newly arrived fresh 2nd and 5th Panzer Division were great boost for the southern theater. Stalino and surrounded area with around 10 enemy formations have been encircled. Considering the weakness of many my units there is no doubt enemy will be able to break in.



I guess Croats are missing the sea so they rushed and were first to reach gates of Sevastopol. The port is already cut off by naval interdiction.



(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 97
Week 15 - 3/16/2021 6:46:59 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Turn 15, 28.9.1941

AGS

Lot of Soviet planes have been shot down during their phase, over 300. Half of them over Donbas and rest over Black Sea when they tried to counter my naval intediction around Sevastopol.

As expected, Soviets were able to break into the Stalino pocket. I sealed it again, no gains around Donbas.



The biggest surprise came in Crimea with the first assault on Sevastopol led to the immediate surrender of the fortress. This unexpected quick success will free 11th Army for operations around Rostov just in time.

As an aside, since this game was started the terrain for the Sevastopol hex has been changed to rough. That will make it much harder to take in 1941 if the Soviets commit a reasonably strong defensive force.




AGN

4th Panzer Group finally stands on the shores of Neva and Lake Ladoga. Fall of Sevastopol will have one more consequence, groups flying naval interdiction can redeploy to the north and try to cut off Leningrad supply via Ladoga.




AGC

The pocket in the center was eliminated and drive to the east continues. Moscow seems to be within a hand's reach. However mud season will most probably halt all movement.




Those 300 Soviet lost planes on that turn should start to really cost the VVS. This week air war has been bloody and at the end of the turn the toll was 1101. I am wondering how many Migs and Yaks they have left.



(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 98
RE: Week 14 - 3/16/2021 7:04:43 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo
You may have noticed lot of cavalry divisions trying to put my units under ZOC or cut off not only mobile units but also infantry units. However I believe this is mistake.


+1

Those are the same divisions the Soviet player is going to want to convert to cavalry corps in the winter.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 99
Week 16 - 3/20/2021 7:24:25 AM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Turn 16, 5.10.1941

Mud season with rain all over Europe is here. Taking an optimistic view, no heavy rain this and upcoming week therefore some limited operations can continue.




AGN

Luftflotte 1 started naval interdiction flights around the Osinovets port. How effective is this preventing Soviet freight movement via Ladoga is currently unknown.

Except Leningrad itself, the Neva's left bank is completely under my control. For next week a crossing is planned in that exposed hex which can be attacked from 4 directions. Only level 2 fort looks promising for this endeavour.




AGC

The opportunity in Moscow sector has been exploited after unexpected Soviet retreat from 3rd Panzer Group's left flank. Hoth reached Kalinin without fight, city itself is defended. Guderian is standing at the gates of Tula.




AGS

Stalino pocket was reduced, only the city itself and Makeevka remains in Soviet hands.

11th Army is moving as fast as possible to help taking Rostov.


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 100
Week 17 - 3/24/2021 7:27:05 AM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Turn 17, 12.10.1941

First the good news from Afrika. Rommel corrected his blunder from summer and Axis forces achieved success in this theater.




Leningrad

Manstein successfully crossed Neva and German armies now have a bridgehead on the right bank. Because that exposed hex can be assaulted from four directions, Soviet fortification efforts at this location should start immediately after campaign start.

Although raining, ground is still only light mud, according to the forecast heavy rain will come next week. Any further offensive actions must wait until start of freezes.




Tula

Only other major attack was on Tula. Basically the whole 2nd Panzer Group participated. Although overkill, I have not planned to advance further and that way I spread out the casualties between many units.




Those two Hungarian brigades routed 3 weeks ago ended in depleted state and are the first being sent to reserve for rest and refit.

If situation allows it I will send more units to rest and refit. Some of my divisions are down to 30-40% strength.

Next week Rommel will gain reinforcements, I sincerely hope he makes good use of it. I certainly could use another full strength motorized division.




The whole Eastern Front. At this point I don't expect the lines moving much. Any hypothetical offensive in November will be launched only in case it can achieve definitive victory. Possible probably only by taking Moscow.



(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 101
RE: Week 17 - 3/24/2021 1:41:27 PM   
MagicMissile


Posts: 1629
Joined: 10/11/2014
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Is the recon incomplete or do the Soviets really have what looks to be very few units?

Nice AAR!

/MM

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 102
RE: Week 17 - 3/24/2021 1:46:35 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagicMissile

Is the recon incomplete or do the Soviets really have what looks to be very few units?

Nice AAR!

/MM


Thanks

Recon is incomplete. Don't fly during bad weather as it usually results in tremendous ops losses.

(in reply to MagicMissile)
Post #: 103
RE: Week 17 - 3/24/2021 4:33:03 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline 		The sparse knowledge without flying active recon is a big step forward for the game. At last real operational surprise is posssible.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 104
RE: Week 17 - 3/24/2021 4:39:37 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

The sparse knowledge without flying active recon is a big step forward for the game. At last real operational surprise is posssible.


yes

_____________________________


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Post #: 105
RE: Week 17 - 3/24/2021 7:47:20 PM   
MagicMissile


Posts: 1629
Joined: 10/11/2014
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Yes that sounds like good news for the game for sure.

/MM


(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 106
RE: Week 17 - 3/25/2021 2:02:15 PM   
CaesarCzech

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 8/20/2015
Status: offline 		that place southeast of Moscow might be worth recon if they are weaker it might be possible to wedge some units there and force soviets to lenghten the line and threaten reach around to south from center, moscow attack from southeast even threat of attack on stalingrad from north, it could force him to make slipup

(in reply to MagicMissile)
Post #: 107
RE: Week 17 - 3/25/2021 2:53:52 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaesarCzech

that place southeast of Moscow might be worth recon if they are weaker it might be possible to wedge some units there and force soviets to lenghten the line and threaten reach around to south from center, moscow attack from southeast even threat of attack on stalingrad from north, it could force him to make slipup


Won't happen, at least not in nov/dec 41. In clear weather it would take 1-2 months, doing it in winter is recipe for disaster.

(in reply to CaesarCzech)
Post #: 108
Week 18 - 3/26/2021 8:31:19 AM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Turn 18, 19.10.1941

Front becomes static. Heavy rain and mud everywhere except around Rostov. First units of 11th Army already arrived to the area and next week will try to attack the city.

Probably time for some assessments as there is nothing to report.

Main campaign goal(gaining enough VPs to force Soviet Union out of the war) was not achieved. At this point I would need to take both, Leningrad and Moscow and this doesn't appear to be plausible. Any major offensive to take Moscow will be clearly a gamble.



Regarding the other objective, destroy or at least significantly weaken the Red Army, I think was fulfilled at least partially.

Lot of enemy formations have been removed from Soviet OOB but I am sure they will be rebuilt.

Soviets suffered 3 millions casualties so far(WIA/MIA/KIA). But Axis armies paid high price as well with nearly 700k own casualties.



Reason why I believe my second objective was achieved are the numbers in OOB. Soviet on map forces are well under 3 millions. However there is around 300k men in Soviet reserves and I am pretty sure these will be used in inevitable Winter offensive. And I definitely want to avoid them appearing in flank of my hypothetical potential offensive against Moscow in the worst possible moment, when the blizzard will hit. This is the main reason I am reluctant to launch such offensive.



However when looking on OOB graph my claim about weakening Soviet army becomes more dubious. While Axis forces are clearly in decline, all I achieved, except conquering some territory has been keeping Soviet armies in more or less the same strength they started the war with.



(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 109
RE: Week 18 - 3/28/2021 2:26:04 AM   
jlbhung

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/10/2021
Status: offline 		Compared to the other demo AAR vs AI by Loki, it appears that the loss of both sides in this AAR is significantly higher.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 110
RE: Week 18 - 3/28/2021 9:49:12 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlbhung

Compared to the other demo AAR vs AI by Loki, it appears that the loss of both sides in this AAR is significantly higher.


there were a lot of changes to the combat engine in the period after I started that game as some new rules were embedded and refined, so that might be a partial explanation.

beyond that, I'd say the Germans here have been pushed very (too?) hard, its paid off but the cost is in the loss ratio?

_____________________________


(in reply to jlbhung)
Post #: 111
Week 19 - 3/29/2021 5:56:22 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Turn 19, 26.10.1941

Raining everywhere only in the vicinity of Rostov is light rain and no mud. One corps from 11. Army and best units from 1. Panzer Group (rest is set to reserve) storms the city. I got lucky and two panzer divisions do activate to support the attack. City is taken but it was close call with final odds only 2.1:1

3rd Romanian army is gathering around Stalino and will be sent to the Axis reserve for refit. Hope to have them back for when Blizzard hits. I also sent all recon groups to reserve as during heavy rains they are useless. But during November I plan to fly intensive recon with aim to find out where are Soviets assembling for winter offensive.


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 112
RE: Week 19 - 3/30/2021 8:33:20 AM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo
3rd Romanian army is gathering around Stalino and will be sent to the Axis reserve for refit. Hope to have them back for when Blizzard hits. I also sent all recon groups to reserve as during heavy rains they are useless.


Why send the Romanians and Recon back to Reserve instead of just leaving them on the map on Refit/Rest?

How did you prepare for Mud? Depots everywhere?

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 113
RE: Week 19 - 3/30/2021 8:43:00 AM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		I dont get enough freight to refit units. Also wanted to reequip some recon squads and reorganize them. Easier to done in reserve than on map.
Depot need to be connected to rail to get freight so building depots everywhere is useless unless connected to rail network

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 114
RE: Week 19 - 3/30/2021 11:25:06 AM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hi - great AAR, thanks!

I was wondering could you give us a brief tour of your depot network? I'm really interested to see how an experienced Axis player lays this out:

- what's the typical distance between depots across the width of the front?
- how close are you main depots to the front?
- do you have a deep line of depots along the main rail routes? If so, what priority are these set on etc.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 115
RE: Week 19 - 3/30/2021 12:11:04 PM   
coolts


Posts: 391
Joined: 2/1/2011
From: Auf Wiedersehen, Pet
Status: offline 		3 turns behind you in my AI game and its giving me a good workout. Have you moved the Romanian RR units to an empty corps after their FBD disbands on T14 to use as a "poor mans FBD" ? Donets basin is a supply desert for 1st Pzr and every little helps. ( I forgot and my tanks are running dry).

Loving the new weather system. It adds so many more interesting situations than in WitE 1.r

Onwards to Moscow!

_____________________________

"Gauls! We have nothing to fear; except perhaps that the sky may fall on our heads tomorrow. But as we all know, tomorrow never comes!!" - Chief Vitalstatistix

(in reply to squatter)
Post #: 116
RE: Week 19 - 3/30/2021 1:14:06 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

3 turns behind you in my AI game and its giving me a good workout. Have you moved the Romanian RR units to an empty corps after their FBD disbands on T14 to use as a "poor mans FBD" ? Donets basin is a supply desert for 1st Pzr and every little helps. ( I forgot and my tanks are running dry).


I did move the Romanian RRs to corps HQ in Crimea to finish the rail connection to the peninsula.

(in reply to coolts)
Post #: 117
RE: Week 19 - 3/30/2021 1:29:13 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: squatter

Hi - great AAR, thanks!

I was wondering could you give us a brief tour of your depot network? I'm really interested to see how an experienced Axis player lays this out:

- what's the typical distance between depots across the width of the front?
- how close are you main depots to the front?
- do you have a deep line of depots along the main rail routes? If so, what priority are these set on etc.



Thanks

I have 5 working rail lines, 1 to Leningrad, 2 in center and 2 south(one is single rail to Crimea. It is far from ideal, I didn't put lot of effort in optimization. Area between Kursk and Kharkov is black hole. Hope the screenshot can answer your questions.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to squatter)
Post #: 118
RE: Week 19 - 3/30/2021 1:50:47 PM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks, that's really useful to see.

So I can see that you maintain a 'depth' of two depots along your rail lines near the front - are both the front and rear of these two depots set to the same priority?

I'm wondering how you know for sure you have enough depot capacity to supply a given number of units in a given area - is there a way you can at a glance see which units were able/unable to draw their maximum/full amount of supply in the previous logistics phase?

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 119
RE: Week 19 - 3/30/2021 1:58:17 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		I always set the most forward depot to priority 4, next one 3. Only thing I am sure is that my units don't have enough supply. I am using the soft factors to see the state of supply/fuel/ammo of units.

(in reply to squatter)
Post #: 120
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